Toyota/Rebellion Racing - Le Mans/ILMC/LMS - 2011 (merged)

[JAG]

Agree, I wouldn't be suprised if Highcroft are four or five seconds quicker than Pescarolo's grandfathered car and Rebellion somewhere between the two.

A slight break for all petrol cars would probably be the right decision but I don't think we should expect them to be on the leading diesels pace, ORECA would be a more realistic target.

[Simmi]

Yeah if I was the ACO I'd be inclined to throw them a bone and hand them a couple of seconds to make them happy. It won't make any difference but it is the gesture that counts.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by JAG

r.

Article 19 says the difference between powertrains should be no more thant 2%, which equates to four seconds at Le Mans. The ACO will hold a meeting on May 7th after Spa, and Pescarolo believe adjustments will be made.

The gaps between the diesels and petrols at Spa will be what to watch for, because I think that will help the ACO decide how big of a change to make.

And I know this has been said before, but Henry's car is not supposed to be close to the diesels this year because his car is grandfathered. Yes it is his job to lobby for his team, but he knows it is going to be an uphill battle with the old Pesca chassis.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by JAG

ORECA would be a more realistic target.

Well no.
As the problem with balancing Diesel and Petrol, is about the cars, and not the teams running them.
Oreca is fielding a Peugeot 908, which has been developed under a much larger budget than all the Petrol cars, therefor equalizing petrols up to Oreca's pace, would be unfair for Oreca, as they spend the money to get such a car.

[Pandamasque]

Well no.
From what I understand it's not about the cars, it's about engine performance. Isn't this is why ACO needed something rather more than a stopwatch to monitor performances this year?

And Oreca's Peugeot 908 HDI FAP is a grandfathered car that doesn't meet the 2011 regulations, therefore if ACO do what they committed to, that car shouldn't be on the pace with top diesel or petrol cars, regardless of its price and/or efforts put it its development! Same goes to Pescarolo 01.

This kind of a discussion is seriously twisted. Maybe someone should turn up with a Audi R8 but made out of solid gold, and be awarded an automatic win in LM24, because clearly that would be the most expensive car out there, hence the team must be ahead of everyone else.

[JAG]

I'm saying an excellent 2011 privateer car like the HPD should be capable of competing with a granfathered ex-factory car like the 908, as we saw at Sebring.

Grandfathered cars are meant to be disadvantaged and that applies to both the ORECA 908 and Pescarolo.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

I'm saying an excellent 2011 privateer car like the HPD should be capable of competing with a granfathered ex-factory car like the 908, as we saw at Sebring.

Grandfathered cars are meant to be disadvantaged and that applies to both the ORECA 908 and Pescarolo.

Except the HPD is really a grandfathered car too. Given the levels of testing and budgets, we wouldn't have expected the cars to be at similar speeds last year, and they shouldn't be now either. I thought at Sebring the speed of the HPD was appropriate.

[JAG]

The ACO stated the advantage will be given to 2011 cars, HPD's car is fully 2011 compliant and should be quicker than Pescarolos grandfathered chassis.

You can factor in the ORECA 908 being a well developed ex-factory car so at the very least the HPD should be on par, not slower, that's assuming diesel equivalency in correct.

In 2005 Pescarolo had the advantage, the grandfathered R8's were significantly slower, but still triumphed through consistency and reliabilty.

[gwyllion]

The new Lola aero package has the possibility to open the nose. Yesterday Rebellion compared both solutions in Spa: open vs closed. They are also running with two dive planes.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The new Lola aero package has the possibility to open the nose. Yesterday Rebellion compared both solutions in Spa: open vs closed. They are also running with two dive planes.

I much prefer the closed version from a visual standpoint. Will be interesting to see if they qualify one car with each setup.

[cmk]

Given that 12 was a tick faster than 13 in each of yesterday's sessions, perhaps that suggests that at Spa that more visually appealing option is the quicker one? Given the fact that Peugeot have brought their LM-style closed nose aero for the works cars, it seems to confirm that Spa is relatively similar to LM in that regard (which echoes Ralf Juttner's assertion that while nowhere is like LM, Spa is the closest comparison available).

Then again, Jani has tended to be the quickest in the Rebellion camp, period, this year. Maybe the pace difference is just down to that...

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by joeb

The gaps between the diesels and petrols at Spa will be what to watch for, because I think that will help the ACO decide how big of a change to make.

And I know this has been said before, but Henry's car is not supposed to be close to the diesels this year because his car is grandfathered. Yes it is his job to lobby for his team, but he knows it is going to be an uphill battle with the old Pesca chassis.

This send chills down my spine.

All it will take is one-three manufacturer to comeout with a petrol powered customer coupes. namely, Toyota,Honda,Nissan. those names carry big weight. more than audi or peugeot.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by joeb

The gaps between the diesels and petrols at Spa will be what to watch for, because I think that will help the ACO decide how big of a change to make.

And I know this has been said before, but Henry's car is not supposed to be close to the diesels this year because his car is grandfathered. Yes it is his job to lobby for his team, but he knows it is going to be an uphill battle with the old Pesca chassis.

Joeb. Like i just wrote in the Aston thread. Please do take equivalence rules to the appropriate thread, we all know how fast that discussion starts and consumes another thread .

[TF110]

At least one of Rebellion's cars starts 5th!, good to see, even if it came at the expense of the factory Peugeot. Ya snooze ya lose! I still doubt they'll be anywhere near the pace of Audi though. And I'm betting Peugeot comes through the field in a hurry.

[JAG]

ACO press release regarding how performance balancing will be applied.

Only seen it on twitter so far.

http://twitter.com/#!/endurancesport

[Simmi]

Looks like they are about to throw the petrol boys a couple of sympathy seconds.

[JAG]

Could also see diesels and grandfathered cars being knocked back, relative to 2011 petrol cars.

[Pandamasque]

Yup, once again the grandfathered cars made it look like there was no point to bring new engines to the race.

[JAG]

The ACO say changes will be made on race pace, that being the case, based on Spa.

2011 DP1 - -2s

2011 PP1 - +2s

2010 DP1 - -1s

2010 PP1 - 0s

[JAG]

Said press release.

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/inter...ique_3677.html

[Jamesy-18]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Looks like they are about to throw the petrol boys a couple of sympathy seconds.

Good, makes sense. I want to watch a race where there's as many cars capable of winning as possible, not the traditional Audi/Peugeot and no-one else boredom.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by JAG

The ACO say changes will be made on race pace, that being the case, based on Spa.

2011 DP1 - -2s

2011 PP1 - +2s

2010 DP1 - -1s

2010 PP1 - 0s

Where do these exact figures come from? None mentioned here. Are these seconds? Hypothetical seconds at Le Mans or Spa or...?

[JAG]

Should have made it clear, what I think should happen based on a lap at Spa.

[Pandamasque]

That wouldn't make much difference then. By the time one would normally expect 3 dominant cars to start from the back and overtake everyone, they actually overtook and then lapped the whole field apart from Audi without breaking a sweat. It was ridiculous.

[The Badger]

When will the change be implemented , before this years 24 hours I hope .