USCC (leave your axe outside)

[ACFlinn]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Oh, like what happened with the WEC? Granted, Audi had already left the ALMS aside from endurance or ILMC/WEC events, but I also find it significant that not only did Audi not want to give a life-line to the ALMS nor are willing to provide one to TUSCC, Toyota never seemed to have serious interest in ALMS/GA/TUSCC either.

Those have been the two main factory efforts in the WEC, and both seemed to only have wanted to sell R18s or TS030s to rich privateers who met their criteria, or, they weren't in the mood to sell at all. I think that IMSA's BOP to try and slow either Audi or Toyota down--or speed up the private efforts who can't compete with a factory outfit on their own--didn't encourage them, but I think that both Audi and Toyota--Audi especially, along with Porsche--got tired of bank rolling the ALMS after Don Panoz stopped his heavy investment in the series after '06, and Toyota didn't want to spend a lot of money for a lack of ROI from the series, whatever that was as far as what Audi, Porsche and Toyota wanted.

ALMS was spinning down the tubes because it's own creator didn't invest in it like he should have. GA, if anything, over-invested in a product that not many wanted. And both series had serious management issues that made quite a few people throw up their hands and say "the ACO is backing a World Championship for Sportscars, and Jean Todt is a supporter of it since he became FIA president". Audi was the biggest backer of such a championship as far as a team, and in 2012, got what they wanted, and they, along with Toyota and Porsche, no longer had any incentive to run for a championship in the ALMS or LMS.

I think that the WEC's creation was a clear shot over the bow of IMSA, GA and NASCAR as far as what sportscar fans, in general at least, want.

You add race control that messes up calls, and who's race director is either a puppet or at least in the pocket of NASCAR and Dr. Don, and other things that have been pointed out as being badly screwed up, I almost have to think that the ACO and FIA are laughing at TUSCC, partly out of humor, and partly out of contempt and ridicule. Because the ACO and FIA know that they might have plenty to gain out of TUSCC's failure. Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but if they want their own NA series, what cheaper and simpler way than to have IMSA beg them for a take over?

Then please explain why the WEC is sharing its North American round at COTA this year with IMSA, instead of coordinating its own event.

Andy Flinn

[TRspitfirefan]

Originally Posted by Breitling24

http://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=25310

So much of this sounds familiar, and is spot on.

Mostly Mr. Goodwin has some good points.
I do disagree about a few things however.

G.G. states regarding the MRN broadcast...

I’m happy enough to have a chuckle about the odd mangled name or several (dozen) but there is little or no sign of this team having done their homework, no sign of them coming to say hello and do some fact gathering in the press room, and not a lot of sign of the same happening in the paddock either.

I thought that MRN showed tremendous progress since the pathetic Daytona broadcast. One guy in particular (The fellow who was struggling to properly pronounce Sebring.) seemed to have come much better prepared, armed with recent ALMS history/stats and a better grasp of the nuances of sports car racing.
I still miss RLM, however I think that MRN deserve credit for a much better effort.

Also regarding Race control, the article finishes with....

Just how bad does it have to get before somebody loses their right to make these decisions again?

Are the recent botched race calls really the fault of one individual?
Or is the overall NASCAR mentality of the New IMSA to blame?
I think that the problem goes much deeper, than just the Race Director.
Therefore it would be unjust, if IMSA were to fire somebody, just to appease angry fans.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

Mostly Mr. Goodwin has some good points.
I do disagree about a few things however.

G.G. states regarding the MRN broadcast...

I thought that MRN showed tremendous progress since the pathetic Daytona broadcast. One guy in particular (The fellow who was struggling to properly pronounce Sebring.) seemed to have come much better prepared, armed with recent ALMS history/stats and a better grasp of the nuances of sports car racing.
I still miss RLM, however I think that MRN deserve credit for a much better effort.

Also regarding Race control, the article finishes with....

Are the recent botched race calls really the fault of one individual?
Or is the overall NASCAR mentality of the New IMSA to blame?
I think that the problem goes much deeper, than just the Race Director.
Therefore it would be unjust, if IMSA were to fire somebody, just to appease angry fans.

MRN was already on thin ice with many fans after NASCAR refused RLM's package. Daytona just sealed it. I for one will never listen to MRN commentary as long as I can help it.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by ACFlinn

You mean like Ganassi?

You're STILL waiting for them to close their shop. Meanwhile, last weekend they were handed Sebring - because they run a DP.

Andy Flinn

Fixed that for ya big guy

[Matt]

Originally Posted by HJJ

yada, yada, yada. WC has a crappy TV package and how the heck do you think these people can raise a budget to do an "endurance" package.

Not perfect, but get a frickin' grip.

Beside the SCCA, is till the SCCA,

Exactly.

[chernaudi]

I doubt that TUSCC's defenders will be friends with DSC's Graham Goodwin after his article on DSC. John Dagys and Marshall Pruett have made it known that they have plenty of complaints, grivances and concerns after Sebring, but they had to be diplomatic about it for employment reasons.

Graham, though, doesn't seem to care, maybe because DSC is much more focused on the WEC and European scene and he knows he won't be covering any more TUSCC races for the foreseeable future, so he had at it.

John and Marshall made their points but were sort of PC about it. Graham didn't have as much of a filter, and I have to admit that even knowing that he wasn't doing any more TUSCC races most of this year, if at all, it still took some balls to present what he did in the way he did.

I may be biased towards the WEC, but if one reads Mr. Goodwin's article, most of us would have to agree with his points, as well as the fact that this stuff will hurt the series quite badly if the issues aren't fixed ASAP. Because, in Graham's words, outside of possibly the WEC, TUSCC is the most expensive sports car series in the world per mile/per hour out there. And, even today, there's still such a thing as bad publicity.

Link in case you don't want to chase it in the thread or the Sebring thread:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=25310

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Because, in Graham's words, outside of possibly the WEC, TUSCC is the most expensive sports car series in the world per mile/per hour out there. And, even today, there's still such a thing as bad publicity.

Link in case you don't want to chase it in the thread or the Sebring thread:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=25310

Noting that the actual budget to do P2 in TUSC is more than to do it in WEC.

[chernaudi]

The only reason why the WEC would be more expensive than TUSCC is travel expenses. TUSCC has more races, more cars, more individual events, and more miles, kilometers, minutes and hours raced than anywhere else, the WEC included. Prototype will be as--if not more--expensive in TUSCC because of that. GTLM will be as expensive as GTE Pro and GTE Am, if not more so. Only in LMP1 in the WEC will there be more genuinely out right greater season expenses.

And as Graham suggested, when will sponsors and pay drivers decide that enough's enough? How bad does discontent have to get with everyone--and by everyone I mean fans, sponsors, teams, OEMs, the media, et al, even apparently some in IMSA's management--before needed change is made?

I hope that TUSCC doesn't have to super nova before that happens, but as we've seen with NASCAR with anything that's a genuine fix to a problem, change does tend to come slowly.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

I thought that MRN showed tremendous progress since the pathetic Daytona broadcast. One guy in particular (The fellow who was struggling to properly pronounce Sebring.) seemed to have come much better prepared, armed with recent ALMS history/stats and a better grasp of the nuances of sports car racing.
I still miss RLM, however I think that MRN deserve credit for a much better effort.

This^
I didn't have audio on the IMSA stream for some reason, so I reluctantly turned on MRN, and was rather surprised.
Eli Gold was still a bit of a problem, but the stints with the other commentator, although not perfect, were far better than I expected. I'd still much rather have RLM, but some credit is due.

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Noting that the actual budget to do P2 in TUSC is more than to do it in WEC.

So great, you race Le Mans then wait 3 months till your next race in Austin and fall off the radar? Just frickin' awesome planning by the ACO/FIA. Then wait till the boat/plane deliver your stuff around the world for a "Fall season" series. Just dumb. Fall off the radar dumb. Nobody will care.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by skycafe

I saw a quote from the head of WeatherTech that they were potentially looking in other directions now, I guess PWC. What other GTD team?

Where?

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by ACFlinn

Then please explain why the WEC is sharing its North American round at COTA this year with IMSA, instead of coordinating its own event.

Andy Flinn

I don't know why I have to explain this to you...

It's not my fault that the WEC have a fetish for Grade 1 tracks, and why the FIA and ACO don't do their own marketing in NA: they've relied on Audi and Porsche for most of that. And the WEC has shown that the can live just fine without the US--Group C did, as did F1 for several years.

And to be honest, I don't care. At the rate things are going, there'll be no IMSA per DSC's article, and what might happen is a cheap and simple ACO take over of IMSA.

I'm about done with TUSCC, NASCAR and it's defenders. For me now, it's WEC or nothing. I'm done, just like DSC might be done...

And I'd kindly suggest that you read that same DSC article if you can't accept my statements.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

Also regarding Race control, the article finishes with....

Are the recent botched race calls really the fault of one individual?
Or is the overall NASCAR mentality of the New IMSA to blame?
I think that the problem goes much deeper, than just the Race Director.
Therefore it would be unjust, if IMSA were to fire somebody, just to appease angry fans.

From a business perspective, when a company messes up their first two major public appearances, yes somebody's head rolls. Usually it doesn't take the 2nd screw-up, mess something up in public that gives your company a black-eye and you are toast.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by joeb

From a business perspective, when a company messes up their first two major public appearances, yes somebody's head rolls. Usually it doesn't take the 2nd screw-up, mess something up in public that gives your company a black-eye and you are toast.

This is it, this is the point what Graham was trying to make.

And the point I've been making. I've been trying really hard to give TUSCC the benefit of the doubt. This is a transition period where a lot of things were combined from different worlds and trying to get it all to work as a homogenous whole at first was/will be virtually impossible and growing pains are inevitable.

But when you see that their two biggest events have had as much negativity as positivity come out of them and that there's on going issues that need fixed as soon as they can possibly get fixed not really getting much better, that's cause for concern, which is why this is a hot button issue for a lot of us here, let alone the people on the ground, be it fans, drivers, team owners, series officials, sponsors and the media.

I do believe that there's not a lot of us who want to see TUSCC fail. Most of us want it to succeed if for no other reason than that better times are probably ahead, we just have to wait for them.

But if they keep making the same or similar mistakes, go about fixing them the wrong way, and making a mess of things, accidentally or intentionally, they're at extremely high risk of alienating people, or as NASCAR called it once, stakeholders. That means people from all the groups I mentioned. When you frustrate and alienate people, they'll eventually vote with their feet, and, just as if not more importantly, their wallets. NASCAR should know this first hand, but in the past 10 years, NASCAR had done more damage to its own image than Bill France Sr or Jr or Jim France did in the previous 55. All of that stuff did majorly alienate a lot of people, and also put off potential customers.

As I said, I don't want TUSCC to implode before needed changes are made, but if that's what it takes for them to learn, then so be it, and I'll bet that European bodies (the ACO and FIA namely) and rival NA bodies (SCCA) will be watching with a mix of pity and laughter. Not that I'd advocate that, but they'd have plenty to gain if IMSA fails.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by HJJ

So great, you race Le Mans then wait 3 months till your next race in Austin and fall off the radar? Just frickin' awesome planning by the ACO/FIA. Then wait till the boat/plane deliver your stuff around the world for a "Fall season" series. Just dumb. Fall off the radar dumb. Nobody will care.

Or you know, you could pay more to spend half the season following the Corvette Pace Car, assuming you don't get penalized for someone with more clouts incident.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I don't know why I have to explain this to you...

It's not my fault that the WEC have a fetish for Grade 1 tracks, and why the FIA and ACO don't do their own marketing in NA: they've relied on Audi and Porsche for most of that. And the WEC has shown that the can live just fine without the US--Group C did, as did F1 for several years.

And to be honest, I don't care. At the rate things are going, there'll be no IMSA per DSC's article, and what might happen is a cheap and simple ACO take over of IMSA.

I'm about done with TUSCC, NASCAR and it's defenders. For me now, it's WEC or nothing. I'm done, just like DSC might be done...

And I'd kindly suggest that you read that same DSC article if you can't accept my statements.

Since you have drawn a line, and I do respect that, I challenge you and anyone else who claims to end it now to never post in a TUDOR thread for the rest of the year. Apparently the series makes you unhappy and I do not feel that you should have to subject yourself to this internal torture.

Apparently you guys do not remember the dark days of the ALMS. I went to Petit the last two years, and for every year before that, and I cannot point to anything more amateur than the product I saw on track during those weekends. Yes teams are complaining about BOP, but they always have and always will. People complaining about the DP/P2 combination did not watch the same race that I did. Of the field of 4 real P2 competitors, 3 finished in the top 5 and the no the best car did not win due to pit strategy. No we do not have P1 cars because the ACO/FIA/Audi turned its back on North American in favor of SE Asia and the Middle East. They intentionally put rules in place during the country's deepest recession to kill the strength of the ALMS field which was P2 which was the beginning of the end for Mr. Panoz. So all I can say is screw them and everything they do outside of Le Mans. People point to stupid spec tires but at the end of the day in the WEC every car in 3 of the 4 classes runs on a single tire make just as the TUSC does (not to mention DTM, F1, V8 Supercars, and Indycar all run on a single tire make as well). Yes the officiating has been horrendous and inexcusable and the caution procedure that must change so go ahead and complain about that. In saying that, it is hard to point to other sports leagues that do not make stupid calls as well. This other stuff, and randomly throwing NASCAR/the France family in, is flat out dumb.

By the way, the US and Don Panoz saved international sports car racing in the late 90's whether you want to admit it or not. Without his decision to form the ALMS god knows what Le Mans would look like today. The ACO thanked him by bending him over and destroying his series.

[chernaudi]

The biggest reason why Michelin is the dominant WEC tire supplier is natural selection--the strong survive--and not something that the ACO and FIA endorse.

And you do seem to be forgetting IMO that Audi and Porsche left the ALMS for other things (Audi for the WEC, and Porsche for customer racing and ultimately the WEC) after Audi won everything in the ALMS that there was to win, there were rumors of a World Sportscar Championship--something that Audi lobbied for for nearly a decade at that point--and they, and other OEMs, got tired of funding the ALMS and not seeing Don give his fair share, as well as the fact that OEMS saw that the ALMS and GA were little needed for their NA advertizing programs.

The 24 Hours of Le Mans gets more press than ALMS and GA did in Europe and even America combined, even over the course of the season. One of the reasons there's American interest in the WEC is that a lot of the people who said that they weren't sorry about Audi (and others) leaving are sorry now seeing how ALMS and GA went down the tubes and that TUSCC is doing the same.

Yes, Audi and Porsche scaled back at the time that the ALMS needed them the most, but that should serve as a lesson not to PO customers aka stakeholders when you know that you're going to need them. And to be fair, GA shunned manufacture teams when they needed them most, and only realized the error when it was too late. Both series screwed themselves, and that lead to one series that seems to not have learned their lessons.

And we all know what they say about history, that if we don't learn from it, we're doomed to repeat it.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The biggest reason why Michelin is the dominant WEC tire supplier is natural selection--the strong survive--and not something that the ACO and FIA endorse.

And you do seem to be forgetting IMO that Audi and Porsche left the ALMS for other things (Audi for the WEC, and Porsche for customer racing and ultimately the WEC) after Audi won everything in the ALMS that there was to win, there were rumors of a World Sportscar Championship--something that Audi lobbied for for nearly a decade at that point--and they, and other OEMs, got tired of funding the ALMS and not seeing Don give his fair share, as well as the fact that OEMS saw that the ALMS and GA were little needed for their NA advertizing programs.

The 24 Hours of Le Mans gets more press than ALMS and GA did in Europe and even America combined, even over the course of the season. One of the reasons there's American interest in the WEC is that a lot of the people who said that they weren't sorry about Audi (and others) leaving are sorry now seeing how ALMS and GA went down the tubes and that TUSCC is doing the same.

Yes, Audi and Porsche scaled back at the time that the ALMS needed them the most, but that should serve as a lesson not to PO customers aka stakeholders when you know that you're going to need them. And to be fair, GA shunned manufacture teams when they needed them most, and only realized the error when it was too late. Both series screwed themselves, and that lead to one series that seems to not have learned their lessons.

And we all know what they say about history, that if we don't learn from it, we're doomed to repeat it.

The reason Michelin is the dominate WEC tire is because they are really the only tire company (apart from Falken) that invests any sort of money into building a tire and then only gives the best teams access to it. Everyone else runs on Dunlops or a more scaled back level Michelin tires that they have to pay for. I fail to see why people care so much about the tire issue when pretty much every other major series in the world is single make and yes early on it is part of the BOP.

The one thing people fail to acknowledge is that if Audi and Porsche or Toyota agreed to field factory teams in P1 we would probably have that class in the TUSC series. However, they chose to race elsewhere and it was not fair to expect American fans to put up with another year of a single P1 team winning everything. That is certainly not the foundation of what is going to be a successful series. In saying that TUSC is an amateur series I would go out and say that TUSC P/GTLM/GTD > WEC P2/GTE Pro/GTE Am.

[chernaudi]

You also seem to have forgotten that point that I've also made countless times. Audi and Toyota would've fielded LMP1 cars in TUSCC if there was enough interest, but I doubt seriously that one single privateer team, even Muscle Milk Pickett racing, could afford one car, let alone the two that Audi or TMG would've wanted for said team to run.

Also, Audi and Toyota were in no mood to set up a factory team in the US just to run in TUSCC. Audi of America stopped paying for the ALMS, and that's when Audi left because Audi AG wanted importers to pay for national or regional programs. As for Toyota, TRD US and TMG are treated by Toyota as separate companies, so that would've complicated matters.

Also, you have to look at this: Audi have had record sales in NA every year after they pulled out of the ALMS. As much as I'd like to see Audi racing in NA outside of a single WEC race, racing regularly in the US seems to have little effect on their advertizing or sales goals. Same applies for Toyota or Porsche.

That, and I'm pretty safe in saying that if they had to race to ACO regs, almost any WEC team would stand a good chance at beating any TUSCC team. And as bad as the ACO and FIA have been at it, at least they seem to do a better job of driver rankings and accreditation than IMSA has done based on Sebring. I believe that's a fair assessment.

Of course, my biggest gripe was when the ALMS was around, we had a series where the cars raced elsewhere in the world could be raced in America, and vice versa. Now we have TUSCC that has two classes populated with cars that can't be raced elsewhere in the world because of their very nature (DPs) and because they deviate so far from the original regs they were designed to (GTD).

Say what you will about the ALMS, but at least that was as close as America ever got to being on the same page as Europe with sportscar racing. I realize that sportscar racing is a niche sport that's brought up because of Le Mans and such. But I'd rather watch sportscar racing than NASCAR, F1, Indy Car, or what have you.

I also know that better time should be ahead for TUSCC, but the question is, will they make it that far? Will we let them make it that far if they don't start to fix some fundamental issues that have been popping up that shouldn't be major problems in the first place. And I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but what easier way for the ACO and FIA to get a firm foothold in America than having TUSCC fail, buy the series for dirt cheap, and rebuild it in their image? Not sure if that's the endgame or if there's an endgame aside from TUSCC getting out of their funk, but that's my chaos theory, and regardless, the chaos is certainly happening.

[LouisTheShark]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

Mostly Mr. Goodwin has some good points.

Also regarding Race control, the article finishes with....

Are the recent botched race calls really the fault of one individual?
Or is the overall NASCAR mentality of the New IMSA to blame?
I think that the problem goes much deeper, than just the Race Director.
Therefore it would be unjust, if IMSA were to fire somebody, just to appease angry fans.

If you only look at the last two races, you might be right. But problems go back to at least year and if not beyond. Dyson, Tucker, and now AJR all are angry at Walter and Elkins. These are not some backmarker teams here, but top flight operations that put quality product on the grid.

I also find it telling that since Baltimore and the Dyson incident, Scott Atherton has been very quiet. He was the voice of the IMSA prior to that, he was the voice of the ALMS for all these years, even to a fault of people making fun of some of his optimistic statements. So what has happened?

Baltimore was a fiasco, the new rules package and the timing of it was a fiasco, DPs went airborne in testing, the no contact contact call at the 24 hour was laughable and at Sebring, race control can't differentiate between white Porsches on different tires with tire brand logos in the video. Over 30 changes to the rule book since it was published in January. Not really a peep from Atherton on any of this. Why? Is he trying to protect his job by distancing himself from these fiascos? Does he already know something that we don't know? It seems Scot Elkins has become the voice of IMSA and his explanations are only fodder for bad jokes.

Why was Richard Buck moved from Grand-Am/IMSA to Sprint Cup just at the start of this season? Normally NASCAR makes personnel moves in December. But this single one move happened in January with no one leaving Sprint Cup.

Why did several Grand Am race stewards leave race control last year? All of whom with sports car experience dating back to the GTP days. Are they being protected so they wouldn't be tainted by any blunders?

So many questions, but no real good answers.

[chernaudi]

All good points, and I posted previously about me having a chaos theory, in a most literal of senses.

The personnel changes do ring a bell, but it goes back a while IMO. Why did Tim Mayer leave IMSA as a full time employee in 2009? Why did Beaux Barfield leave IMSA for Indy Car in 2011? I think that Tim and Beaux saw that the proverbial crap was about to hit the fan and got out when the going was good.

Also, I do think that some people are trying to make others be scape goats if thing really go down the crapper soon. In addition to Scott Atherton after Baltimore (aside from occasional interviews and statements), we haven't heard much recently from Jim France, who is controlling owner of the series, or Don Panoz, who's a minority shareholder and another "face" of the merger. Are these guys trying to also distance themselves from what's going on?

In addition to other shake ups (Buck going from IMSA directly to NASCAR, and other officials being moved around), we have Scot Elkins being the face of IMSA. I think he may be the Ax-Man here. And who might get the ax? Obvious answer to me is Paul Walter. He's not very popular with the paddock, fans or anyone else it seems, he's PO'd a lot of people, and he and others in race control might get the boot as far as firings or demotions go, and the old crop of IMSA and GA officials can be allowed to take over again.

Or, maybe Scot might not handle the pressure, resign, and former GA and IMSA GTP director Mark Rauffuf might get called back.

But I'm staring to believe that, one way or another, heads might roll soon.

And like in baseball, three consecutive strikes and you're out! It might come to that in Long Beach for quite a few people, be it shake ups within IMSA, or people and teams leaving the series.

[Holt]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And like in baseball, three consecutive strikes and you're out! It might come to that in Long Beach for quite a few people, be it shake ups within IMSA, or people and teams leaving the series.

At Daytona TUSC had issues balancing the P2s and DPs. They fixed that for the most part at Sebring. So yes, they got a strike at Daytona, but on the next pitch TUSC hit a home run with DP/P2 BOP at Sebring.

At Sebring TUSC had safety car issues. A strike. Will the trend continue in them hitting a home run on the next pitch by fixing the full course caution rules? I'd say its very likely. They've acknowledged its a problem.

They're working to do something. They're trying to make things better. Yes the caution at the end of Daytona was garbage. They rightfully got grilled for it. We havent seen a garbage caution like that since. Maybe they learned their lesson? The last Sebring caution was nothing like the last Daytona caution. They waited what felt like a solid 5 minutes + for the car to get refired and going again on its own. When it didnt, with no proper local yellow rules etc in place, they had to go full course caution.

As for the 'bad' calls, the Audi and Ferrari at Daytona was a split second decision, and it was corrected later. As for the wrong car being penalized at Sebring, well maybe there needs to be a change there? We'll see what happens.

We all knew there would be teething problems for the new series, and unfortunately some issues have been worst then expected, but TUSC is working on fixing them. They've acknowledged they got the BOP wrong at Daytona. They acknowledged they made some bad calls at Daytona and Sebring. They acknowledged the caution procedure is flawed.

I dont think we'll know until Petit Le Mans is over with whether or not TUSC has succeeded or failed.

[LouisTheShark]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

All good points, and I posted previously about me having a chaos theory, in a most literal of senses.

The personnel changes do ring a bell, but it goes back a while IMO. Why did Tim Mayer leave IMSA as a full time employee in 2009? Why did Beaux Barfield leave IMSA for Indy Car in 2011? I think that Tim and Beaux saw that the proverbial crap was about to hit the fan and got out when the going was good.

Also, I do think that some people are trying to make others be scape goats if thing really go down the crapper soon. In addition to Scott Atherton after Baltimore (aside from occasional interviews and statements), we haven't heard much recently from Jim France, who is controlling owner of the series, or Don Panoz, who's a minority shareholder and another "face" of the merger. Are these guys trying to also distance themselves from what's going on?

In addition to other shake ups (Buck going from IMSA directly to NASCAR, and other officials being moved around), we have Scot Elkins being the face of IMSA. I think he may be the Ax-Man here. And who might get the ax? Obvious answer to me is Paul Walter. He's not very popular with the paddock, fans or anyone else it seems, he's PO'd a lot of people, and he and others in race control might get the boot as far as firings or demotions go, and the old crop of IMSA and GA officials can be allowed to take over again.

Or, maybe Scot might not handle the pressure, resign, and former GA and IMSA GTP director Mark Rauffuf might get called back.

But I'm staring to believe that, one way or another, heads might roll soon.

And like in baseball, three consecutive strikes and you're out! It might come to that in Long Beach for quite a few people, be it shake ups within IMSA, or people and teams leaving the series.

Elkins and Walter are a pair. When one goes, the other is not far behind. I think the Axe-man is Atherton. His silence since Baltimore is telling. Panoz had been quiet for years already and France doesn't go into the spotlight very much. So their silence is not as surprising to me. Actually Ed Bennett will likely be the real Axe-man behind the scenes and Atherton will face the media to explain it all.

Good point about Raffauf, he is still employed at IMSA and this month was named to the board of directors at the AMA, another France owned operation. The other interesting name in the shadows is George Silbermann, former president and COO of IMSA, he is also employed at NASCAR and also was just named to the board of directors at AMA. To me this indicates that both men enjoy a trust with Jim France beyond their current roles at IMSA and NASCAR.

[chernaudi]

Silbermann was also the head of NASCAR's appeals board for several years. The thing with Bennet is that he's been quiet since the merger as well, and he was the head of GA for quite a while before hand.

But if this is correct and there's some form of rebellion mounting in IMSA's hierarchy and they want to shake things up, it seems that the old guard from IMSA's GTP days (Raffauf, Silbermann, others of their ilk) and a few highers up from the ALMS and GA who are in good standing with Jim France and Don Panoz (Atherton, Bennet, et al) might be the firing squad, and they might be training their rifles at the likes of Walter and possibly Elkins, and other guys from the ALMS and GA that the old guard and their allies are trying seemingly to distance themselves from.

After all, they say it's the quiet ones you have to watch. Jim and Don are the two biggest shareholders in the series, but they've been silent. Atherton and Bennet are just below them in profile and power in the series, but they've also been silent, so has Raffauf and Silbermann, and both have clean, clear and obvious IMSA ties.

And this can be seen as thinning down the herd, too. I have no doubt that some people will have to go just as a result of excessive redundancy in the series and lay offs would it seem be inevitable. I mean, Job said that there's at least 5 people who are the decision makers in race control? That may be too many cooks in the kitchen there.

Also, not that it's likely to happen, if some of the old IMSA guys get in, the IMSA Safety Team might be reformed, because Raffauf was IMSA director when they created the Safety Team in 1992 after Road Atlanta. However, Raffauf is a definite Jim France/NASCAR/ISC ally, and we know how much NASCAR and ISC is opposed to the Safety Team because NASCAR will then be pressured even more to have a Safety Team for their national touring divisions (though NASCAR might have to bite the bullet with IMSA on that one because of what happened at Daytona and Sebring--they might not have much of a choice to placate the teams and others).

But it's clear that IMSA has to do something, be it with shuffling people around or otherwise, and it might be a case of old meets new, in that (hopefully) the best of the ALMS and GA guard and the IMSA old guard can right the boat. Doubtless, as series owner, I can't image the likes of Jim France and Don Panoz being happy, and knowing that snickers can be heard from the cities of Le Mans and Paris over some of the happenings in TUSCC, especially if IMSA wants to take their ACO/FIA connections seriously, and if they want the ACO and FIA themselves to take them seriously, too.

[JoestForEver]

Sorry to interrupt your debate guys, but I personally believe we should give IMSA a third chance, where there will be no am class and the race is more "sprint-like" in not Long Beach (Lengthy FCY inevitably), but Laguna Seca.