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20 Mar 2014, 15:26 (Ref:3382328) | #6051 | ||
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A set of dry compound is about $1600, around $400 a tire.
Just for comparison...an off the shelf Michelin is about $150 more. |
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“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.” |
20 Mar 2014, 16:20 (Ref:3382344) | #6052 | |||
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20 Mar 2014, 16:25 (Ref:3382346) | #6053 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Yes, and everyone openly "admitted" to it, including Pirelli and FIA. The fall off is a feature to increase the value of strategy and create passing opportunities. It is widely regarded as a good thing.
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your night worstmare. |
20 Mar 2014, 16:43 (Ref:3382349) | #6054 | |
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20 Mar 2014, 17:23 (Ref:3382357) | #6055 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 364
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As much as I enjoy f1, the pirelli saga was a bit ridiculous. Hopefully the new regs with less down force help. The fall apart rubber was only necessary because the FIA painted themselves into a corner with the aero.
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20 Mar 2014, 18:31 (Ref:3382382) | #6056 | ||
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“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.” |
20 Mar 2014, 18:40 (Ref:3382386) | #6057 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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How do you fix the issues though, when it appears the main issue really is incompetence? I mean it is either that, or these things have been done wilfully.
I'm not sure how many second first chances they deserve. |
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20 Mar 2014, 20:04 (Ref:3382416) | #6058 | |||
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20 Mar 2014, 20:14 (Ref:3382422) | #6059 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 502
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Why don't we spin off a spec series (PC?) and invite (pay) different tire makers to supply them? We could call it ITSA or USTR.
Is anybody but P2 teams complaining about Continentals? Too many cautions and current pit rules don't give teams any incentive to do so much of the timme, but DPs have commonly double-stinted them at Daytona in the past. Gainsco won at COTA doing so. I do not want a tire war. F1 has had them in the past and it sometimes created great IMbalance of performance. Spec tires were not originally mandated in F1; rather a tire supplier was required to be ABLE to supply all teams that wanted to buy. The fiasco at the 2005 USGP ("Michelin: Unsafe to Race!") brought about the one tire contract. And yes, I know Indy was a historic/stupid course for F1. Michelin did bid on the F1 contract for 2011-2013. I'm not buying the "wrong tire for Le Mans" argument, and frankly woudn't change them for that reason anyway. How do we know Michelin saw sufficient marketing value in the US beyond equipping GTLM in the single road racing series? |
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“You know you’re in trouble when the first person to get to you after a wreck is carrying a beer” -Jimmy Horton, Talladega 7/25/93 |
20 Mar 2014, 20:33 (Ref:3382433) | #6060 | |||
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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Quote:
As far as the "wrong tire for LM" argument, the fact is that the P2's have larger restrictors and are still several seconds slower than they were before being required to use the Contis. Nobody in their right mind would try and use Contis anywhere they weren't required. |
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20 Mar 2014, 21:18 (Ref:3382447) | #6061 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 256
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Quote:
But how about the fuel? Everyone now is pretty much on spec fuel. I remember the days of F1 home brews and oil company sponsors on the side of the cars providing the latest and greatest in fuel chemistry to those teams. F1 tried to use control samples so that teams had to race throughout the year with the same fuel they presented at the beginning of the year. That didn't work either and cheating was still everywhere. While it is true that sanctioning bodies financially benefit from a control tire or single tire supplier, a single tire supplier also reduces some competitor risk as long as the tire supplier builds a safe tire. We can argue that point about F1 as that is about the one series where that is not the case. Neil Bonnett, Michele Alboreto and others died or were injured due to a tire failure. What do these incidents have in common, a tire war. So the real question is, does anyone really go to a race to root for one tire manufacturer over another? Do the tire manufacturers have any real technology transfer from race to street tire? I would think not. And if a tire war is so desirable, why not go back to a fuel war? How many fans during the open fuel era of F1 rooted for Esso over Shell or vice versa? I look at tires the same as I look at fuel. That is not why I watch racing so to me that stuff can stay spec. |
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20 Mar 2014, 21:59 (Ref:3382465) | #6062 | ||
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FWIW, I wasn't making any argument as to why someone should, or shouldn't use spec tires in a series at all.. just pointing out why P2 were the only ones complaining, and that the times achieved on Contis are slower than one could achieve with the other tires available.
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20 Mar 2014, 22:24 (Ref:3382477) | #6063 | |||
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20 Mar 2014, 23:04 (Ref:3382492) | #6064 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 397
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Quote:
Bob Akin (Sebring Hall of Fame inductee) claimed that his Porsche 935 was afflicted by water in the gas, and cost him the victory. But you know what? Akin and the fans soon got over it. I'm not sure that could happen in the current environment. Andy Flinn |
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21 Mar 2014, 00:45 (Ref:3382510) | #6065 | |||
Racer
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21 Mar 2014, 01:02 (Ref:3382515) | #6066 | ||
Race Official
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Goodv article written by a marshal at Sebring.http://motorsportsmusings.wordpress....he-new-series/
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21 Mar 2014, 01:57 (Ref:3382519) | #6067 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,833
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I know that there's been some talk on Atherton and Bennet being quiet since the merger. Well, Scott has spoken out in an interview with Marshall Pruett that Marshall says will be released tomorrow (according to his Twitter) that'll look at the Sebring issues in detail.
Don't know if it'll make a lot of us feel better, though, unless some hint's at major changes are being made. |
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21 Mar 2014, 02:38 (Ref:3382523) | #6068 | |||
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Quote:
During the 1972 Road Atlanta Can-Am race, Denny Hulme went airborne at 8 in his McLaren M20. The car came to rest inverted, minus wing and all bodywork, against the tires/earth embankment on driver’s right 80 yards short of Black Flag. There was no fuel system breach and no fire. A dozen-odd spectators immediately jumped the fence and down the bank/tires and righted the car. Hulme was conscious but none too chipper, so, wisely, nobody attempted to remove him from the car. A few small to medium sized vehicle and campers’ fire extinguishers were on the bank by the time any marshals reached the car. Officially, such actions were unauthorized, deplorable, and dangerous. I don’t know if spectators could have handled a fire. Had there been one, Hulme would have had slim chance of survival waiting on official help |
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“You know you’re in trouble when the first person to get to you after a wreck is carrying a beer” -Jimmy Horton, Talladega 7/25/93 |
21 Mar 2014, 03:53 (Ref:3382531) | #6069 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 381
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True, but back in 2007 the Pirellis on the AMR DBR9s didn't hold up either . So I think there's still question whether Pirelli can make a 'good' tire.
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21 Mar 2014, 10:22 (Ref:3382583) | #6070 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2014
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I think they can. The reason they fell apart last year was due to the FIA changing the rules and demanding to replace the kevlar components with steel in order to cut costs presumably. This was not on Pirelli's initiative.
Pirelli probably tried, but there were a lot of factors out of their control (such as the intricacies of certain cars, using exhaust gas to seal off the diffusor and teams cross-changing tires) so it was them trying to improve on a deeply flawed concept that was put upon them by the rulemakers. As soon as they went back to 2012 carcasses the problem was gone. This is my personal take though. force india employed several ex-bridgestone engineers on their team and they had a somewhat different view, though I don't recall what exactly their argument was. this is getting quite off-topic however. In any case, I think the spec tires aren't really the issue here. Overall BoP should accomodate for that, and if Sebring is anything to go by, we're approaching the target here. though I secretly think that the reason P2 was so strong was that they actually had stronger driver pairings than the DP teams. |
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your night worstmare. |
21 Mar 2014, 13:44 (Ref:3382649) | #6071 | |||
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We are looking a this, we are looking at that, we know there are problems, we need time to figure them out, just stay patient, trust us, and.... If you only knew what was coming! |
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“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.” |
21 Mar 2014, 19:59 (Ref:3382762) | #6072 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 442
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As tweeted by Hindy, US TV ratings are in for Sebring on FS1:
181k live (first 3 hours) 135k highlights |
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21 Mar 2014, 20:01 (Ref:3382763) | #6073 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,190
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ouch.
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Q: How to play religious roulette? A: Stand around in a circle and blaspheme and see who gets struck by lightning first |
21 Mar 2014, 20:03 (Ref:3382765) | #6074 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,269
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And according to Hindy, compared to the last hours of the Bathurst 12h live in Australia... half the watchers for 20 times the population. (Bathurst getting 350k in Australia for a population of about 15-20 million)
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When in doubt? C4. |
21 Mar 2014, 21:21 (Ref:3382791) | #6075 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 613
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Alex Job seems to think there will be a breakaway series.
Honestly I can't see how this would work especially seeing how TUSCAR has most of the manufacturers in its pocket. |
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