2010 Le Mans Intercontinental Cup

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by trahsub

So the U.S. will be seeing a NASCAR M3 down the road? Doubt it. Given the importance of the US market for BMW, I can't imagine they disappear from US sports car racing. Especially with no F1 budget.

Well, that's why the ITR (on behalf of BMW) is pressuring Grand Am to adopt DTM-rules...

[Purist]

Field certainly is over-eager on the starts, but I'm glad there still are drivers like that running around. It sure beats the pants off the "oh, I can't pass him" attitude of a number of F1 drivers. Thankfully, Clint is also to the point where he's reasonably quick, and he is a good bit smoother than his old man. Perhaps they need to put him in at the starts for Road America and Mosport. As for Road Atlanta, Jon can give the diesels fits for a few laps at least. Last year he was hitting 205mph heading down into Turn 10.

You may have to fill me in here, but the only LM wins I could think might be due to Cosworth would be 1975 (Gulf Mirage-Ford) and 1980 (Rondeau-Ford).

Do you know if the cylinder limit is still in place for the new LMP1 regs? It certainly would be nice to have the possibility of seeing some smaller displacement engines in V10 or V12 form. The 4.0-litre V12 in the Ferrari 333SP is one of the best sounding engines to come out in the last 20 years. And didn't the Judd V10 start out in 3.5-litre form for F1?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

L.P.

And.............?

The ALMS appears to be on it's last lags, we're well past Le Mans and little has been discussed with regards to the future.

Someone need to stand up, make some big decisions, and communicate it to the world.

Become a GT only series?

Move back in line with ACO regs and push LMPC into P2?

Reduce the calendar, increase race distances?

Accept more GT3's?

It's not as if the state of the series has come as a great suprise to anyone.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JAG

The ALMS appears to be on it's last lags, we're well past Le Mans and little has been discussed with regards to the future.

Does it? Please, do give us the insider scoop on this!

Someone need to stand up, make some big decisions, and communicate it to the world.

Become a GT only series?

Move back in line with ACO regs and push LMPC into P2?

Reduce the calendar, increase race distances?

Accept more GT3's?

It's not as if the state of the series has come as a great suprise to anyone.

Yes, and that will come in its normal place!

As to your theory/assumption that the ALMS is dead!
Not all hold that as the truth of the situation.
We will see, come the State of the Series Address/conference at Petit



L.P.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

Well it wasn't unprofessionalism. He just made the call that didn't work out. Professionals sometimes make mistakes, it's not a crime. And if you want to complain about it, go to the NASCAR board. I doubt many people here to talk about sportscars care about anything in NASCAR, that was what I was stating.



Depends. But most guys to stay sharp do shifter karts. Mark Dismore owns a beautiful go-kart track in New Castle, Indiana, that has periodic races and top-flight and just below top-flight guys show up there and race just to keep their edge, and it's relatively cheap.



Good. You can see Wirth's arrogance shine through and why the Acura can't be considered a success because his genius ideal that he thought would beat the Audis and Peugeots, didn't. And it also killed any chance of the car going for overall at Le Mans.

By the way, made a mistake in my Acura description last night. It wasn't a shorter wheelbase, it was the fronts and rears being the same size.



Well I'm just responding to what you posted.

So you DO think I'm stupid... That's nice to know.

A) I was saying Pattie's call was unprofessional, re-read that post. I think you were ready to reply before reading my post.

B) Yes most guys including Formula 1 drivers do karting when time allows during the season and in the off-season. That does not however keep your name in the news. Summerton's name has been mentioned anywhere I remember listening to a broadcast, he did one or two Indy Lights races at the start of the season, but money ran out I suppose. I still say you should be running in a viable series so people know you didn't fall off the face of the earth, besides who watches kart racing? I call myself a hardcore racing fan, but I will not go watch 125cc shifter karts or SCCA/NASA Club Racing.

C) I don't care about Nick Wirth's arrogance (it seems you do, along with Mid Week Motorsports). His LMP2 was successful, his LMP1 car we'll never know, they didn't do much development during the 2009 season. Maybe the LMP1 is the basis for his new LMP1 car. I didn't expect him to be running at the front in F1 and I don't think he did either, not in the first year anyway. Look at how much money Toyota spent and didn't get very far either.

D) I didn't care about the small detail error you made its not that serious, but as I said before, you reply to me because you think I'm clueless? Thanks a bunch.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Purist

Field certainly is over-eager on the starts, but I'm glad there still are drivers like that running around. It sure beats the pants off the "oh, I can't pass him" attitude of a number of F1 drivers. Thankfully, Clint is also to the point where he's reasonably quick, and he is a good bit smoother than his old man. Perhaps they need to put him in at the starts for Road America and Mosport. As for Road Atlanta, Jon can give the diesels fits for a few laps at least. Last year he was hitting 205mph heading down into Turn 10.

You may have to fill me in here, but the only LM wins I could think might be due to Cosworth would be 1975 (Gulf Mirage-Ford) and 1980 (Rondeau-Ford).

Do you know if the cylinder limit is still in place for the new LMP1 regs? It certainly would be nice to have the possibility of seeing some smaller displacement engines in V10 or V12 form. The 4.0-litre V12 in the Ferrari 333SP is one of the best sounding engines to come out in the last 20 years. And didn't the Judd V10 start out in 3.5-litre form for F1?

Going strictly from memory so bare with me.

Yes The Mirage cars, the (Alan) De Cadenet's cars as well and Jean Rondeau's efforts all were powered by Cosworth engines based on the F1 DFV (Ford).

The engine limits again strictly from Mike's page but mostly my memory -

• 2.0L, 6 Cylinders MAX Turbocharged
• 3.5L, Max 8 Cylinders N/A
• Unsure about "stock blocks" and OHV engines
• LMP2 is under Production 3.0L for Turbo, 6 cylinders max and V8's production based max 5.0L
• 3.7L Turbo-Diesel

*N/A with no hybrid -775kg
Turbocharged, Diesel or any combination + Hybrid - 900kg
LMP2 - I think its 850kg or something

Up in the air are fuels like LNG and CNG. Also for that strange Oil Company, dirty Diesel debate earlier, both Diesels are running on Shell GTL, that's Diesel made from Natural Gas, so it burns REALLY CLEAN.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by JAG

And.............?

The ALMS appears to be on it's last lags, we're well past Le Mans and little has been discussed with regards to the future.

Someone need to stand up, make some big decisions, and communicate it to the world.

Become a GT only series?

Move back in line with ACO regs and push LMPC into P2?

Reduce the calendar, increase race distances?

Accept more GT3's?

It's not as if the state of the series has come as a great suprise to anyone.

Reduce the calendar? Are you mad? The only track that has "dissed" the ALMS is Road America, but that's because they got a Nationwide event. But rumor has it Indy Car will be going back to Road America, so I see a shared weekend happening down road.

Mid-Ohio attendance is higher with Indy Car and ALMS combined than just Grand Am.

They missed St. Pete last season due to made up excuse, they'll likely return, no schedule clash.

Also the Sears Point rumor, so the case is not looking to reduce but add.

I would say longer races at Road America (go back to 4 hours) if it can be worked out with Indy Car and get all their feeder series in, qualifying for Indy Car and ALMS and all its feeders. I don't know where else you would lengthen the event, maybe Mosport?

• Sebring 12 Hours
• St Pete 2 Hours
• Long Beach 2 hours 10 mins
• Laguna Seca 6 hours
• Utah, not likely its too hot.
• Lime Rock, not likely too hot
• Mid-Ohio, 2 hours 45 mins, shared weekend with Indy Car
• Road America, 4 hours, run to dusk was popular should return
• Mosport, possible 4-6 hour event, solid crowd.
• Sears Point, shared weekend 2 hours 45 mins
• Petit Le mans, 10 hours

I think that's plenty of long distance events, even if you add Detroit back on for 2012.

If I was Atherton, I would be looking to link up with Ratel and the FIA because WTCC has interest in a North American round, so does FIA World GT1. Both being sprint series, that's just a bonus for the typical ALMS fan.

Its not on its last legs actually, LMP is a joke, Intersport and Dyson as so far behind they are only going to be playing spoiler from here on out. 4 out of 5 races with DNF's in a short championship like this, somebody usually gets fired. Intersport with a DNS, DNF and otherwise delayed elsewhere, scoring no points in the first two rounds.

The savior is Muscle Milk, who I think we'll be a factor from here on out. Scoring the double points from Sebring will loom large from here, especially after victory at Lime Rock.

GT is saving the day, LMPC is better than it likely should be. Especially with Zugel maybe be running with Genoa for the rest of the season, allowing Gunnar and Elton to run down Tucker in the Championship. GTC is better than expected as well, AJR and Black Swan are going at it tooth and nail, already talking smack too.

GT Driver's title is likely going to come down between #45, #62 and #92/#90 since all but the last race for the #62 (and Long Beach) and Sebring (and Utah) for the #45 have finished on the podium/won. BMW is going to have to break though however, they can't count on any further DNF's I don't think from the two leading cars. I think Corvette will stop having errors and find victory lane someplace, Road America? It will be the first track they have previous year's data and may have a slightly horsepower advantage.

TWK, Myself and others don't have gloom and doom for the ALMS in mind, we just know they could do better and should have done better. You only have so many times to make a crisis into a positive before people loose faith and go elsewhere.

[JAG]

Reduce the calendar, absolutely

The ALMS isn't operating in a vacum it's part of a wider ACO sportscar scene.

As I see it there are a few options, they could go it alone and hope like IMSA GTP the series is attractive enough to convince manufactuers to build ALMS versions of their Le Mans machines plus home grown cars.

Or position the ALMS as the North American leg of a world series with Sebring, PLM and two of the most suitable from Laguna, Mosport, Road America etc. There is however the question of whether IMSA/ALMS can make ends meet with only four stella events rather than a full season.

Should the **** hit the fan the GT option is a good one becuase these season regulars can slot in around ILMC entrants in Noth American races as they do at Le Mans while the series retains income from regular entrants and circuit use.

Ultimately however I do believe/hope there will be major ALMS LMP news for the 2011 season and beyond simply because if something major does not happen in 2011 the long term future of the series will be in real danger.

Let's hope someone does purchase a couple of the rumoured R15/R18's, Acura/Wirth have a larger presence, Riley commit to a P2 and Dyson get their act together with a couple of competitive cars.

As I've always said the ALMS is 'only' half a dozen quality LMP's away from being back to it's best.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by JAG

Reduce the calendar, absolutely

The ALMS isn't operating in a vacum it's part of a wider ACO sportscar scene.

As I see it there are a few options, they could go it alone and hope like IMSA GTP the series is attractive enough to convince manufactuers to build ALMS versions of their Le Mans machines plus home grown cars.

Or position the ALMS as the North American leg of a world series with Sebring, PLM and two of the most suitable from Laguna, Mosport, Road America etc. There is however the question of whether IMSA/ALMS can make ends meet with only four stella events rather than a full season.

Should the **** hit the fan the GT option is a good one becuase these season regulars can slot in around ILMC entrants in Noth American races as they do at Le Mans while the series retains income from regular entrants and circuit use.

Ultimately however I do believe/hope there will be major ALMS LMP news for the 2011 season and beyond simply because if something major does not happen in 2011 the long term future of the series will be in real danger.

Let's hope someone does purchase a couple of the rumoured R15/R18's, Acura/Wirth have a larger presence, Riley commit to a P2 and Dyson get their act together with a couple of competitive cars.

As I've always said the ALMS is 'only' half a dozen quality LMP's away from being back to it's best.

But your discounting the demand for the series. If your not NASCAR in America on a road course you're not going to get a great turnout, only for the ALMS or Indy Car.

Indy Car already has a balance of Oval/Road Courses on its schedule now.

You can't eliminate the street circuits there are only two and Long Beach is far too important a market, the OEM's won't let you abandon that.

Name ONE bad race on the schedule? I'd say the Utah event is the worst, but its been fairly good in the past. They keep moving it around for one thing.

The ALMS is a quality series period, its just lacking some intrigue in LMP and frankly I was a huge supporter of GT1, so I can really do without the multi-million dollar machines if a handful of teams are going to be uncompetitive and basically be just grid fillers in good times or bad.

As I have said before, the ALMS could have largely prevented this tragedy with forward thinking and plenty of people we're on the case. Lack of media pressure to react is the cause, because not enough of the fan base was informed to pressure the series into acting.

The ALMS should always do what's best for the ALMS. What the ACO wants, is very secondary. They couldn't have avoided making Sebring and Petit apart of the IMLC, this is not of the ACO's making, this is the ALMS' making. They had no way of knowing. Now its a highly attended event (crowd wise) race. ALMS could use that to parlay the rest of the 10-12-14 race schedule.

If anybody should reduce is LMS, where the crowds? There aren't any, they think they'll just show up. There's a good crowd for every ALMS event but a few but still more than Grand Am and most LMS events.

We shouldn't change, YOU should change.

[WMUCarGuy]

Does anyone know when an ILMC entry list will be posted. I'm debating whether to come to PLM or not and the additional entries will be a big factor for me.

[JAG]

I don't know if this is upto date.

LMP1

ORECA - ORECA 01 AIM
Audi Sport Team Joest - Audi R15+
Audi Sport Team Joest - Audi R15+
Drayson Racing - Lola B09/60 Judd
Signature Plus - Lola Aston Martin
Team Peugeot Total - Peugeot 908
Team Peugeot Total - Peugeot 908

LMP2

OAK Racing - Pescarolo Judd
OAK Racing - Pescarolo Judd

http://www.mariantic.co.uk/lmp/Aslms.asp

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by JAG

I don't know if this is upto date.

LMP1

ORECA - ORECA 01 AIM
Audi Sport Team Joest - Audi R15+
Audi Sport Team Joest - Audi R15+
Drayson Racing - Lola B09/60 Judd
Signature Plus - Lola Aston Martin
Team Peugeot Total - Peugeot 908
Team Peugeot Total - Peugeot 908

LMP2

OAK Racing - Pescarolo Judd
OAK Racing - Pescarolo Judd

http://www.mariantic.co.uk/lmp/Aslms.asp

- Signature said they wanted to do the ILMC, but they didn't give any assurance that they will. They wanted some official support from AMR.
- OAK is studding the possibility of going with one P1, they have an extra Pecarolo for it.
- Rebellion is thinking (finding the money?) about doing it.
- Oreca said something about going with their own car in the begining of the season, but no more news about it...

... but 2 factory Audi and 2 Factory Peugeot are more than confirmed, as also Drayson.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

- Signature said they wanted to do the ILMC, but they didn't give any assurance that they will. They wanted some official support from AMR.
- OAK is studding the possibility of going with one P1, they have an extra Pecarolo for it.
- Rebellion is thinking (finding the money?) about doing it.
- Oreca said something about going with their own car in the begining of the season, but no more news about it...

... but 2 factory Audi and 2 Factory Peugeot are more than confirmed, as also Drayson.

And GT-2?


L.P.

[courageous]

Strange with GT2 - the ACO surely wouldn't have added it to the ILMC if people didn't ask them to, but as yet I have heard no word of even rumoured entries other than BMW

[JAG]

Maybe Schnitzer and a few of the bigger European Ferrari and Porsche teams will join the ALMS regulars.

Presumably Corvette, RISI and some others will run in the ILMC in 2011 otherwise why would GT2 manufactuers ask to be included in the ILMC?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by courageous

Strange with GT2 - the ACO surely wouldn't have added it to the ILMC if people didn't ask them to, but as yet I have heard no word of even rumoured entries other than BMW

I would think that there will likely be an AF squad and maybe a Porsche or too as well. Would be nice to see the jmw car as well. Oh and I. Would like to see Spyker, but doubt they will make it

[6157]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Well, that's why the ITR (on behalf of BMW) is pressuring Grand Am to adopt DTM-rules...

Are we sure it's not the other way around?

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Do you really think I'm clueless?

Do I really have to answer this?

[dj4monie]

I hope Strakka comes over to deepen the LMP2 fight. Oak Racing will play a factor but with no previous track knowledge it will be an issue. Watts has run here before.

As for GT2, well it depends what's going on in the Championships -

If all the point leaders are single digits, I think you'll see extra cars to help get the Championships in play. Falken is not much of a factor over an entire race, so I think if a FL/Risi/BMW are within striking distance of especially the Manufacturers Title, they'll bring more guns to the battle.

[cmk]

I could see Vilander/Fisi/Alesi and Companc/Russo both being candidates for AF to run - with the latter the budget source is also more clear. Melo/Bruni could end up with either Risi or AF or neither, especially if Risi does not enter. The super-pair are doing ALMS over LMS this year, but that's probably because they are clearly out of the hunt for the championship in the latter.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by 6157

Are we sure it's not the other way around?



Do I really have to answer this?

Are you trying to be funny? My opinions have been backed up... Its not pie in the sky.

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

And GT-2?


L.P.

Seems to me that the inclusion of the GT2 class in the ILMC was made more from a manufacturer point of view. There are Ferrari, Porsche and BMW teams in both sides of the atlantic, so i wouldn't expect to see Felbermayr, Schnitzer or AF Corse running at Petit Le Mans, or Risi, Llying Lizard or Rahal-Lettermen doing the same thing at Silverstone. There wont be a team fighting for the title, but the manufacturers have theire representatives anyway for the manufacturers title.

The fact is that no GT2 team as yet said anything about doing the ILMC... as far as i know!

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Seems to me that the inclusion of the GT2 class in the ILMC was made more from a manufacturer point of view. There are Ferrari, Porsche and BMW teams in both sides of the atlantic, so i wouldn't expect to see Felbermayr, Schnitzer or AF Corse running at Petit Le Mans, or Risi, Llying Lizard or Rahal-Lettermen doing the same thing at Silverstone. There wont be a team fighting for the title, but the manufacturers have theire representatives anyway for the manufacturers title.

The fact is that no GT2 team as yet said anything about doing the ILMC... as far as i know!

I wouldn't say that just yet. If the manufacturers really view this are important, then winning the manufacturers championship in America and gloating about it in the national press (USA Today, Wall St. Journal) is very high on that list.

If there is a single point(s) margin between Ferrari, BMW or Porsche for any the manufacturers championship, then I think the heavy guns will come out. In other-worlds I think you will see a few European teams making the trek because to keep one or two of the manufacturers from gaining points, you need your cars to finish ahead of them. You also need backup in case the lead car goes down to failure or accident.

I am not sure how many cars are back in Flying Lizard's shops here in California, but they should have the #46 still, which is a 2008 car. As I understand it, the #45 is the car from Le Mans last year. I think this is a new shell as of last year.

Risi we know have the Krohn car, the #61 and #62. I don't think we can pry Tracy Krohn away from his own car, so its less likely they will play a roll in defending the #62. I think RLR can come up with a 3rd car if needed and have plenty of drivers.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Seems to me that the inclusion of the GT2 class in the ILMC was made more from a manufacturer point of view. There are Ferrari, Porsche and BMW teams in both sides of the atlantic, so i wouldn't expect to see Felbermayr, Schnitzer or AF Corse running at Petit Le Mans, or Risi, Llying Lizard or Rahal-Lettermen doing the same thing at Silverstone. There wont be a team fighting for the title, but the manufacturers have theire representatives anyway for the manufacturers title.

The fact is that no GT2 team as yet said anything about doing the ILMC... as far as i know!

Thats pretty much my take on it also. Maybe some driver placements as to 3rd drivers(?).





L.P.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Thats pretty much my take on it also. Maybe some driver placements as to 3rd drivers(?).

L.P.

I just don't know, if Extreme can prove they can be a factor for race wins, then maybe they won't need another team effort. But if Porsche has a chance to win a championship they will draft in all the Porsche drivers they need. As I said its entirely possible FL can field a 3rd car for a one-off at Petit. BMW will bring in a 3rd driver and its likely the usual suspects.

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Thats pretty much my take on it also. Maybe some driver placements as to 3rd drivers(?).
L.P.

I find it more plausible. Some of the best drivers of the European Series coming to the states for a seat or even for a 2nd or 3rd effort from a American Team, and vice-versa. At least for this year.

For 2011, with 7 races, maybe we will seem some real global commitment from some of the top GT2 teams, but without the ACO providing a free logistics like in F1 (paid by championship sponsors) i still have my doubts if we are going to see more than full factory (GT or LMP) teams doing the complete Cup.