[WEC Race] WEC 2015 Round 2: Spa

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Ginaro Zukovsky

http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res...%20to%2022.pdf interesting last decision, I wonder what will come of it.

ARTICLE 9.17 UNAUTHORISED SUBSTITUTION OF ONE
COMPETITION FOR ANOTHER
9.17.1 Any Competitor having entered themselves or any
Driver having undertaken to drive in any International or
National Competition who does not take part in that
Competition and takes part in another Competition on the
same day at some other place shall be suspended (temporary
withdrawal of Licence) as from the beginning of the latter
Competition, for such time as the ASN concerned may deem
fit.
9.17.2 If the two Competitions take place in different
countries, the two ASNs concerned shall agree as to the
penalty to be imposed and should the ASNs fail to agree, the
matter shall be referred to the FIA, whose decision thereon
will be final

Plus the €1000 fine for AMR for his late driver announcement.

Could get messy, but probably won't.

Originally Posted by airbusA346

I bet #7 will get a fine for doing a lap after the flag.

I was right.

€1000 fine for 'Took the chequered flag twice and did not respect the race director briefing notes'

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Audi was given a stop and go for not respecting track limits at Silverstone. Porsche did not respect track limits at Spa and accelerated through a run off zone to minimise time loss. Therefore part of the penalty should be equal to what Audi received.

AF Corse received a 1 minute penalty for a wheel which rolled into an area which was not allowed. This rule is to stop wheels being bounced around the pit lane where there are exposed people. The ACO takes pit rules extremely seriously due to the exposure of the people in the pit lane.

The Porsche put people at danger because they drove the car into an area where people were, which is forbidden, and forced a marshal to move into an area which exposed him to more danger. Using AF Corse as a measure on how they penalise cars which endanger exposed members of staff, they should have then gotten a 1 minute penalty.

Combine them: 1 minute stop and go. That IMO would've been the correct call.

To begin: I like all the teams. I don't have a constant favorite, though at any given time I might prefer one or the other (at Spa I preferred Porsche, for no particular reason.)

I'd say Brendon Hartley did a very unsafe thing to avoid losing more time driving back onto the racing surface via the route he had left by. The fact that no one got hurt is not part of the equation, otherwise we would have to let everyone go crazy until someone Did get hurt ... precisely because no one was penalized to correct bad behavior.

To me, if a bouncing tire which briefly escaped the control of a crew member on pit lane is a stop + 60, Hartley's foul—Deliberately driving through, no, Plowing through (sorry, Martin Plowman ... it should have been you, but it wasn't ) a marshal's stand and endangering marshals (marshals Should Not be Forced to take evasive action because of Deliberate driver action) was worth at least as much.

It wasn't ... oh, well. Just like lots of cars went four wheels off course at Silverstone and only Audi was penalized. Just like calls are missed and muffed in every sport. Nothing is going to be done retroactively, so I am not going to give myself ulcers over it.

Still, to me Hartley's action warranted a much stiffer penalty.

Still, it didn't ruin the race for me.

On another hand, (I have several) I can understand why someone would be outraged by Hartley's action, because he did deliberately put marshals at risk. That cannot be accepted ... the racers are part of the race, but the marshals, like law enforcement officers of all types, are essential for maintining the structure of society (of racing society, in this case.)

There will always be people willing to risk their lives driving fast (I volunteer!) but without the people willing to flag the races (almost always volunteers) the whole thing falls apart.

So, maybe the most extreme objectors aren't just anti-Porsche.

Anyway ... even after the standard set by Silverstone, the race did not disappoint.

[Matt]

If they didn't narrow up the cars by 200mm it wouldn't have fit and he would have had to turn around. :P

[Chuliandred]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

€1000 fine for 'Took the chequered flag twice and did not respect the race director briefing notes'

You missed a zero. 10 000 Euro for an extra lap on a track which was not completely closed at that time as other cars stil had to run to the finish...

I can not understand it as well as i can not understand why there is no lap of honor in general. In LeMans okay... it would take ages. But on the GP circuits? Just let them run.

[Matt]

the WEC is clearly a NO FUN ZONE

[Chuliandred]

Originally Posted by Matt

the WEC is clearly a NO FUN ZONE

I would like to know the punishment for doing some celebration donuts at the end of LeMans. Maybe we see the renaissance of the guillotine. I learned in history class that it was quite popular in france in the olden days <- that is clearly a rolling head, the forum admins must suspect something!

[mikuni]

One problem with turn 19/20 at Spa that no one has mentioned yet (to my knowledge), is it's double backed nature. Just last year in F1 there was an incident where the rejoining car turned back across the track, almost in the opposite direction of the oncoming cars.

I didn't see the race, so I'm not sure of the exact configuration of the corner this year, but Brendon's options may have been somewhat limited, and the path he took may have been one that he believed was the correct way to re-enter. I have seem similar done over the years, often without any penalty given.

From what I have seen though, it didn't look good at all, and I would want the governing bodies to stamp this out quickly to ensure this type of thing doesn't become more common.

[chernaudi]

10,000 Euro fine for running an extra lap at the finish?! And on a track that was still active.

I can remember the ACO waiving off the "normal" parc ferme entrance stuff at LM. That and some of the more questionable penalties that have happened recently makes me wonder if having FIA endorsement of the series is such a good thing.

But then again, these are the ACO's sporting and technical regs.

[GT-Eins]

Here some more statistic stuff for all interested parties:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2015/w...al=Statistiken

[Gingers4Justice]

With the Hartley incident, what seemed strange was how quickly he saw the gap and went for it. He obviously knew that gap was there.

Hartley has done a lot of simulator work with Mercedes and is obviously no stranger to whatever Porsche have back at base. He's probably done a thousand laps of a virtual version of Spa, and you'd presume that he's gone off at the bus stop before. Could it not be that he was aware of that gap from the simulators, but not necessarily aware that it was a marshal post?

[Jam3s]

I think it's as simple as noticing on the track walk. Drivers often ask what to do in the event they go off-track and given the bus stop is somewhere for that likely to occur he would have for sure made a mental note.

[Akrapovic]

Both theories work because the simulators they use are now accurate enough to have such things showing up.

Either way, he accelerated towards a shortcut. The claim of not wanting to go against traffic doesn't work - he had chosen to use this shortcut before he was even off the racing surface, indicated by when he got back on the throttle. He could've easily made it back onto the surface before the second apex.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Chuliandred

You missed a zero. 10 000 Euro for an extra lap on a track which was not completely closed at that time as other cars stil had to run to the finish...

I can not understand it as well as i can not understand why there is no lap of honor in general. In LeMans okay... it would take ages. But on the GP circuits? Just let them run.

At every track other than Spa and LM, they do the full lap. This isn't the first year at Spa that they go straight into the pits the wrong way.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

10,000 Euro fine for running an extra lap at the finish?! And on a track that was still active.

I can remember the ACO waiving off the "normal" parc ferme entrance stuff at LM. That and some of the more questionable penalties that have happened recently makes me wonder if having FIA endorsement of the series is such a good thing.

But then again, these are the ACO's sporting and technical regs.

IMSA hand out loads of fines too. in 2012 the majority of pit stop infractions was a $1000 fine.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I'm sorry, but I just don't see any marshal in a panic.
Based on what I have seen again, I cant change my opinion.
I understand that those that see it another way will not change theirs.

Given the above and the fact that Eduardo Freitas must have obviously interpreted what he saw in a similar way as to how I see it, I'm comfortable with my position on this matter (not that it matters in the slightest)
Unless of course, there is an insinuation that Eduardo was not being even-handed;In which case I think he should be parked for the next race.

Marshalls are marshalls, they put their lives in a dangerous position every weekend in order to let us watch our beloved sport. The fact they didn't panic is a testament to their temperament, not a reason to let Hartley off.

The point is not that it made a marshall scared, panic, or whatever you would like to call it. The point is that a) one of them was forced to step onto an active race track putting themselves in genuine danger, and b) that if any of them had not been paying attention to what was going on behind them I dread to think what would have happened.

You simply CANNOT drive through a marshall post, it's beyond my comprehension that anyone could see that as an OK thing to do. Waving it off because no one was hurt is like spotting an fault on a plane and then looking the other way until it crashes (extreme example I know).

I would have parked him, not the car, just him, and given him the bo*****ing of a lifetime for that. He needs to learn it is not OK to do that.

Comparing it to Audi running wide is just odd. Seeing the comparison between this and the 51 just makes it seem more troubling to me that barely anything seemed to be done about it.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

At every track other than Spa and LM, they do the full lap. This isn't the first year at Spa that they go straight into the pits the wrong way.

I've not done a race at Spa where they don't bring the cars in immediately after La Source, where the F1 pit lane exit is. Happens at Brands when using the GP layout as well. Always told that it is to save time between races, but would have thought that an exception could be made for the WEC race! €10k poorer but at least Benoit was able to acknowledge the marshals.....

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Both theories work because the simulators they use are now accurate enough to have such things showing up.

Either way, he accelerated towards a shortcut. The claim of not wanting to go against traffic doesn't work - he had chosen to use this shortcut before he was even off the racing surface, indicated by when he got back on the throttle. He could've easily made it back onto the surface before the second apex.

I'm not defending his use of a shortcut, but I refuse to believe that this thought process was something along the lines of "ooh, look! A gap in a wall with live human beings in the way! I'll just nip my 919 through there..."

It was obviously a silly thing to do, and he clearly didn't think about it or else he would have turned around. I just wonder if experience of going off there in simulators led him to doing it almost through force of habit or something - there aren't any repercussions through going through that gap in the virtual world.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

€10k poorer but at least Benoit was able to acknowledge the marshals.....

No doubt Audi will pay that fine.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by wewantourdarbyback

Marshalls are marshalls, they put their lives in a dangerous position every weekend in order to let us watch our beloved sport. The fact they didn't panic is a testament to their temperament, not a reason to let Hartley off.

The point is not that it made a marshall scared, panic, or whatever you would like to call it. The point is that a) one of them was forced to step onto an active race track putting themselves in genuine danger, and b) that if any of them had not been paying attention to what was going on behind them I dread to think what would have happened.

You simply CANNOT drive through a marshall post, it's beyond my comprehension that anyone could see that as an OK thing to do. Waving it off because no one was hurt is like spotting an fault on a plane and then looking the other way until it crashes (extreme example I know).

I would have parked him, not the car, just him, and given him the bo*****ing of a lifetime for that. He needs to learn it is not OK to do that.

Comparing it to Audi running wide is just odd. Seeing the comparison between this and the 51 just makes it seem more troubling to me that barely anything seemed to be done about it.

100% agree. Imagine if he had hit someone. That car sized gap should be closed or the tyre barriers should be overlapped so that you can't drive through there or else some other idiot will try it.

[airbusA346]

This was posted on Facebook last night.


(Bram De Poorter)

[joeb]

Originally Posted by GT-Eins

Here some more statistic stuff for all interested parties:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2015/w...al=Statistiken

That was interesting to see how closely matched the three Porsches were, but there were differences between the Audi's for sure. I would have thought the 8 car would have been more similar to the 7 than it was.

[Richard117]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

At every track other than Spa and LM, they do the full lap. This isn't the first year at Spa that they go straight into the pits the wrong way.

They do a full lap at Le Mans, this is from Tetre Rouge last year:

[Damian Baldi]

those graphics are great ! thanks GT-Eins

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Mike E

100% agree. Imagine if he had hit someone. That car sized gap should be closed or the tyre barriers should be overlapped so that you can't drive through there or else some other idiot will try it.

I believe the opening was made that way to allow recovery vehicles (Manitous at Spa) to maneuver two ways which makes sense imo. Not sure if there was one staged for this race though.

Also 'entertaining' to see Hartley running over the flags when crossing through the MP.

[Miguel]

Don't know if anyone is interested in this, but here are a bunch of photos from last weekend, all taken from spectator areas: http://www.gt-report.com/2015/05/05/behind-the-fence/

Peace out yo!

[Maelochs]

Some really creative shots there, very well done ... but how did you know my name is "Yo"?