The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga - Page 251

deggis · 3 Jul 2013, 18:18 (Ref:3273477)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Articus

Didn't they choose the V6 in the first place because they had an eye towarsd 2014? Either way the Audi engine is still bespoke racing engine and same with Porsche.

I don't think so: the first and initial manufacturers' meeting regarding 2014 regs was held in June 2010.

TF110 · 3 Jul 2013, 18:28 (Ref:3273483)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

Because it's not 100 percently designed for a 2014 LMP?

Where did you get that from? The engine used by the Rebellion team is not the same as the TS030. A NEW version means it will be made 100% for their 2014 car. No one else is using that engine. Like I said in my last post, if theyre using the RV8 line. And even if it is, that line has been more than worthy. Plus there was major differences between say the F-Nippon RV8 and the CART RV8. Its not the exact same engine, and wheres the criticism for other makes like HPD using a modified Indy Car engine?

hondafan37 · 3 Jul 2013, 18:32 (Ref:3273486)

I do not know if the Toyota V8 fits the 2014 rules. But I love the variety and in the next year will be 4 different types of engine in LMP1. Audi V6 Turbo Diesel, Toyota V8 3.4 aspirate, Porsche 4 cylinder Turbo and Honda V6 Turbo.

deggis · 3 Jul 2013, 18:50 (Ref:3273495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Where did you get that from? The engine used by the Rebellion team is not the same as the TS030. A NEW version means it will be made 100% for their 2014 car. No one else is using that engine. Like I said in my last post, if theyre using the RV8 line. And even if it is, that line has been more than worthy. Plus there was major differences between say the F-Nippon RV8 and the CART RV8.

A new version of something means... exactly. Hard to know what were Leupen's exact words on Eurosport, though.

Quote:

Its not the exact same engine, and wheres the criticism for other makes like HPD using a modified Indy Car engine?

HPD avoids critisism by not fielding a factory entry

TF110 · 3 Jul 2013, 19:06 (Ref:3273510)

A new 3.4 liter v8 or version of it. From another source theyre claiming reduced revs and direct injection. That would be a big addition and not just a variation of the RV8. Bigger lower revving engine gives easier power with lower fuel usage. Rebellion are looking to the same route. Couple that with hybrid power on both axels possibly 8mj worth, thats a very strong combination. Plus the super capacitor can store that energy already so they have a leg up. Thats why I brought up the hybrid Supra HV R. You can look at their pikes peak electric car as another possible solution to use.

miatanut · 3 Jul 2013, 20:54 (Ref:3273561)

This is SO much more refreshing than F1 technical discussion these days!

Rennen · 3 Jul 2013, 21:49 (Ref:3273593)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

Only one (1) Toyota will be raced the rest of the 2013 WEC season says AutoHebdo.fr

http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/we...e-ts030-en-wec

Shame really...Not that #8 crew could win the championship, but in all 3 races so far they have finished ahead of #7 and the #8 crew are in 3rd postion overall. "Not bad for Number two drivers!"

tyronnezx · 4 Jul 2013, 00:24 (Ref:3273621)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rennen

Shame really...Not that #8 crew could win the championship, but in all 3 races so far they have finished ahead of #7 and the #8 crew are in 3rd postion overall. "Not bad for Number two drivers!"

i hope it's a bad rumor. this is Ridic. how much does TMG need to do to make TMC realise this isnt a joke? i think going forward, costcaps need to be introduced and a bare minimum level of commitment level is needed to be finalized from manufacturer teams.

at the moment, it feels like TMC is fully taking the Pi**ss

TF110 · 4 Jul 2013, 06:07 (Ref:3273677)

I thought there was a penalty for withdrawing an officially entered car...? I'll buy this rumor when Toyota say so or until theres one car in Sao Paulo. Disappointing if it's true, but if they have the best car next year its worth it.

gwyllion · 4 Jul 2013, 06:13 (Ref:3273679)

Since the father of one of the #8 drivers does not deny it, it is probably true.

Mal · 4 Jul 2013, 06:27 (Ref:3273683)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

at the moment, it feels like TMC is fully taking the Pi**ss

How can you say that? Its Toyota's money and for them to spend as they want - you may not like it but thats a fact

TF110 · 4 Jul 2013, 09:24 (Ref:3273730)

I would rather see the #8 car if they're keeping one car only. Davidson and Sarrazin are the better duo imo and Buemi was equally as quick. Nakajima has SuperGT conflicts not present with any of the #8 car and they are still within the title hunt. Too bad the next round is two months away.

Maelochs · 4 Jul 2013, 10:27 (Ref:3273753)

I'd rather see Toyota stay withing their 2013 budget and have more to spend in 2104, than see the team spend everything this year and the board of directors pull the plug on 2014 and the next year or two.

Of course, the board won't do that because the team Can only spend what the board dictates; the board wants a car on track this year and two next year (and almost certainly the year after at least--I don't see them designing and building another car from scratch for only one season) so really, fans are the winners here: we get to see Toyota for a while more.

It is really easy for folks who don't pay the bills to demand more, and it is really silly for fans to complain about a team when the alternative is No team.

We don't know how much money Toyota is willing to spend on racing, or what portion they are willing to devote to WEC, but they are certainly doing a good job with what they have---have we already forgotten who won most of the races post Le Mans last year, or who finished second and fourth this year?

Seriously, a team finishes second and fourth at Le Mans (and would have had second and third if a sudden rain shower hadn't caught out Lapierre) against Audi (13 wins in 15 tries) in only its second year and we think the team isn't trying hard?

We should be giving Toyota huge props for doing so much with what they have---and looking forward eagerly to see what they bring in 2014.

I seem to recall Toyota doing all right with only one car for most of last year, too. Good racing, when otherwise it would have been only Audi.

deggis · 4 Jul 2013, 16:12 (Ref:3273895)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

I thought there was a penalty for withdrawing an officially entered car...? I'll buy this rumor when Toyota say so or until theres one car in Sao Paulo. Disappointing if it's true, but if they have the best car next year its worth it.

Recently checked: actually there isn't a clearly defined penalty, but "may be penalised" and the entry fee and other paid costs won't be returned.

Quote:

A competitor who does not report on time for the administrative checks at an Event, for any reason other than:
- A case of force majeure (poor weather conditions, social unrest...);
- An accident during the previous Event in the Championship, as a result of which the car sustained damage, noted by the Championship Technical Delegate, that could not be repaired within the given time;
may be penalised by the Panel of Stewards: this penalty may go as far as exclusion from the Championship.

Quote:

b) Withdrawal:
Any withdrawal from the Championship or from participating in an Event must be notified to the FIA in writing, by registered letter with acknowledgement of receipt, with a copy to the Promoter.

Any withdrawal is irrevocable and will not result in any reimbursement of the entry fees or of the advances on technical costs or fuel costs.

TWRv12 · 4 Jul 2013, 16:50 (Ref:3273912)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

It is really easy for folks who don't pay the bills to demand more, and it is really silly for fans to complain about a team when the alternative is No team.

Audi and Toyota are completely out spending the competition. I think what everyone is trying to say is, a little less of the space race thing and how about more racing.

Pandamasque · 4 Jul 2013, 17:03 (Ref:3273919)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Audi and Toyota are completely out spending the competition. I think what everyone is trying to say is, a little less of the space race thing and how about more racing.

If TMG went that route, they'd be racing the Rebellions...

deggis · 4 Jul 2013, 17:14 (Ref:3273923)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Since the father of one of the #8 drivers does not deny it, it is probably true.

He quoted the rumor link though and the tone almost sounds like it was news to him. Add in the nonsensical decision to dump a car that is in better position in the championship, I don't feel like believing this.

In any case, this isn't official yet.

Pandamasque · 4 Jul 2013, 17:45 (Ref:3273936)

I thought this has been announced even before the season's start. Something along the lines of '1 full-season entry + the second car that will do selected events and Le Mans'.

deggis · 4 Jul 2013, 17:57 (Ref:3273942)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I thought this has been announced even before the season's start. Something along the lines of '1 full-season entry + the second car that will do selected events and Le Mans'.

No. There are two on the WEC entry list. But originally the plan was 1-car entry:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105168
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105369

**Adam43** · 4 Jul 2013, 19:06 (Ref:3273968)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I thought this has been announced even before the season's start. Something along the lines of '1 full-season entry + the second car that will do selected events and Le Mans'.

I seem to remember a call for them to be hung, drawn and whipped because they didn't do what we demanded back at the beginning of the season too.

tyronnezx · 4 Jul 2013, 20:38 (Ref:3273999)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

How can you say that? Its Toyota's money and for them to spend as they want - you may not like it but thats a fact

True, But after F1 i HOPEd they have got the act together.

Beetle · 4 Jul 2013, 21:56 (Ref:3274039)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

Only one (1) Toyota will be raced the rest of the 2013 WEC season says AutoHebdo.fr

http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/we...e-ts030-en-wec

Toyota is the largest automobile manufacturer in the world... and they lack resources...?

**Adam43** · 4 Jul 2013, 22:03 (Ref:3274042)

Not as much as Peugeot does.

TF110 · 5 Jul 2013, 01:55 (Ref:3274088)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

True, But after F1 i HOPEd they have got the act together.

When you have to go against turbocharged diesel cars with bigger engines, you have to spend to compete. To spend to beat maybe too much for one season with what they currently have to spend without cutting into the "TS040" development.

hrug:

Mal · 5 Jul 2013, 06:24 (Ref:3274128)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

True, But after F1 i HOPEd they have got the act together.

Putting a pragmatic hat on - they have not won Le Mans, they are extremely unlikely to win WEC - this years car has no real relevance to next years so why keep spending money on it to keep a few fans happy.

It is nothing to do with getting their act together - it is simply business sense

We are lucky they are running even one car, imho, and that clearly shows continued support for the WEC and ACO

I would expect a bigger effort next year when the slate is wiped clean with new cars for everyone.

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