[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[porman]

Another great race for the #17. A real shame for the 18 though. Bravo Porsche! LMP1 and GTE Pro winners.

[Spyderman]

Very disappointing for #18. They deserved the win.
Congratulation #17!

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by cokata

Not only that, the car can start moving the millisecond the fuel hose is detached / the car drops down from the jacks. Even the quickest starter in the world can't fire up the engine immediately. Furthermore i would guess that Toyota's solution would let them accelerate up to the speed limiter quicker simply because of the max torque being available down from 0 RPM.

It also seems to be a good backup for refiring a stubborn and hot engine late in the race. Built-in pushers.

[Articus]

I have two things to add to this pitlane startup plot.

Did anyone else see the onboard at COTA when the #18 Porsche left the pitlane for the last pitstop. It rolled away on electric power only not until near the end of the pitlane did the ICE fire up. That's Toyota style.

Similarly, i recally seeing Front wheel spin on the Audi at Le Mans as they were exiting the pitbox.

These two observations would suggest that Porsche and Audi are doing a bit more than just firing up the engine at the end of a pitstop. Are able to use electric boost to some extent. Porsche didn't do this at Le Mans. you can here the engine fire up right away in vidoes.

[TF110]

Is that 'do the pitlane on electric power' rule still a rule?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Articus

I have two things to add to this pitlane startup plot.

Did anyone else see the onboard at COTA when the #18 Porsche left the pitlane for the last pitstop. It rolled away on electric power only not until near the end of the pitlane did the ICE fire up. That's Toyota style.

I was in the grandstands across from the pit and while there was other loud cars on the track and I can't say for sure, I also thought the #18 did an all electric exit as I couldn't hear it like you normally did on pit exit.

I was wondering if the reason was that whatever electric issue was going on might have been a battery or charging issue for the ICE. I assume there is a small battery for the engine and other electronics that is separate from the hybrid setup. So assuming maybe it was not charging and they maybe put in a fresh battery, they may have started the ICE at the last minute just to ensure it could make it the single lap to the end given it would have been running off the battery vs. alternator??

Also... on the lap prior to it pulling into the pit, I can't swear, but I thought I saw the #18 go dark (no lights) as it approached turn #1 on the prior lap. It was going slow for sure as many cars passed it in the braking zone.

Originally Posted by TF110

Is that 'do the pitlane on electric power' rule still a rule?

I think I read somewhere here months ago that it is not longer a rule/requirement.

Richard

[Spyderman]

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/vid...lm-p1-hybride/

[joeb]

Pretty slick looking car. I wouldn't be upset if that is the future P1 direction.

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by joeb

Pretty slick looking car. I wouldn't be upset if that is the future P1 direction.

I would be. I prefer LMP1 cars to be cars purely designed for performance. This looks more like an extreme kind of GT car, similar to the new Ford GT. I would like such a hypothetical extreme GT category though.

[Richard C]

I have a really hard time getting excited over pure concept cars. One of my biggest pet peeves is the well worn automobile design trope of extreme diameter wheels, rubber band tires and near zero body gap in the fenders. Also, many of these cars end up looking like about any other super car. This car reminds me somewhat of a Koenigsegg, or somehow (shudder) a Vector. I do like the smooth lines and bulbous fenders however.

Richard

PS: After looking at the description of the video on YouTube, it looks like this is nothing more than fan art (even if from a professional designer) and not related to Porsche other than wishful thinking?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I have a really hard time getting excited over pure concept cars. One of my biggest pet peeves is the well worn automobile design trope of extreme diameter wheels, rubber band tires and near zero body gap in the fenders. Also, many of these cars end up looking like about any other super car. This car reminds me somewhat of a Koenigsegg, or somehow (shudder) a Vector. I do like the smooth lines and bulbous fenders however.

Richard

PS: After looking at the description of the video on YouTube, it looks like this is nothing more than fan art (even if from a professional designer) and not related to Porsche other than wishful thinking?

Agreed!

[Akrapovic]

It's a nice car, but concepts are indeed pointless. So until they build it, it's rubbish. But Mazda did build the Furai, so you never know!

Personally I don't want to see LMPs go down that concept car route. I think the current set are fantastic looking (odd headlights on all 3 excepted).

[Spyderman]

Looks like Hatz is out!
A huge blow for Porsche Motorsport.
https://trove.com/a/Audis-R-amp-D-bo...=sns&nocrawl=1

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Looks like Hatz is out!
A huge blow for Porsche Motorsport.
https://trove.com/a/Audis-R-amp-D-bo...=sns&nocrawl=1

I am not familar with VW, Audi and Porsche staff at that level. I read the linked article and was confused as to why someone from Porsche would be caught up in all of this. But I Googled Hatz and found this...

http://press.porsche.com/more_about/...s/pag/hatz.php

I expect that link to disappear in the near future. Here is the text (my bold)...

Beginning February 1, 2011, Wolfgang Hatz is a member of Porsche AG Board of Management in charge of Research and Development, and is additionally Head of Engines and Transmissions Development for the Volkswagen Group.

Prior to assuming his board level position, Mr. Hatz was an engineer and project leader in engine development at BMW AG and at BMW Motorsport from 1983 until 1989. He joined Porsche in 1989 and was, among other functions, involved in the development of the Formula 1 engine. As an engineering graduate, Hatz took up a post at Knorr Bremse in 1993, and in 1995 became Technical Director of Motorsport at Opel before taking over as Head of Engines and Transmissions Development at Fiat in 1997. Hatz joined the Volkswagen Group in 2001. Here, too, he served as Head of Engines and Transmissions Development at Audi until 2009, having assumed the same function within the VW Group in February 2007.

Heads are rolling from the top down.

His background is motorsports. Was he involved in the motorsports arm of Porsche?

Richard

[kvenom]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I am not familar with VW, Audi and Porsche staff at that level. I read the linked article and was confused as to why someone from Porsche would be caught up in all of this. But I Googled Hatz and found this...

http://press.porsche.com/more_about/...s/pag/hatz.php

I expect that link to disappear in the near future. Here is the text (my bold)...



Heads are rolling from the top down.

His background is motorsports. Was he involved in the motorsports arm of Porsche?

Richard

Heavily involved, in fact they interviewed him on the official broadcast from COTA before all this stuff happened.

[Spyderman]

Porsche CEO Müller to be appointed VW group CEO

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Porsche CEO Müller to be appointed VW group CEO

I have to wonder what is going through the mind of Ferdinand Piech right now.

Especially given he had been trying to force out Winterkorn and his inability to do so was the trigger for his exit as chairman of VW. While he is no longer chairman (and I assume no longer on the board) he would still be part of the larger Porsche/Piech family block that controls Porsche SE, which is the largest voting shareholder of VAG.

I can imagine Piech used this entire thing as an opportunity to oust Winterkorn. Likely he had to do nothing but watch it happen and smile. I can't remember, but I don't think Muller was Piech's first choice for VW CEO many months ago, but it likely would have been an OK solution given the current situation.

Those at the top are saying they were not aware. Given this was going on in the 2009 timeframe (I think) then potentially many hands may be dirty include Piech's.

Richard

[Richard C]

To spin a fantasy tale...

Given the entire debacle of Porsche AG attempting to taking over VAG and the fallout being the reversal that Porscha AG was taken over by VAG. I wonder if the Porsche/Piech family could be considering engineering an exit of Porsche from VAG.

While VAG likely has deep pockets, lets say they needed money? Could Porsche SE (the family) separate Porsch AG out of VAG (Porsche SE buy Porsche AG) and end up controlling both VAG and Porsche, but as separate entities? Or might the family continue to be happy to control both via the single entity (VAG).

These are the odd things I think about.

Richard

[J Jay]

Piech's hands might be dirty - I find it hard to believe that the top executives didn't know about this - but his ousting means he can pull (cut) the strings from behind the scenes. Given the extent of the scandal though I think whoever was CEO would have had to go, regardless of whether they had made powerful enemies to get there or not.

So that report was spot on and Muller becomes CEO. Hatz going is potentially bigger news on the motorsport side, depending on who has to leave with him.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

To spin a fantasy tale...

Given the entire debacle of Porsche AG attempting to taking over VAG and the fallout being the reversal that Porscha AG was taken over by VAG. I wonder if the Porsche/Piech family could be considering engineering an exit of Porsche from VAG.

While VAG likely has deep pockets, lets say they needed money? Could Porsche SE (the family) separate Porsch AG out of VAG (Porsche SE buy Porsche AG) and end up controlling both VAG and Porsche, but as separate entities? Or might the family continue to be happy to control both via the single entity (VAG).

These are the odd things I think about.

Richard

Anything is possible at this time. There has been some thoughts that maybe the Group will be broken up. I think that this may be an option if later on there is a necessity to contain the damage to VW.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Anything is possible at this time. There has been some thoughts that maybe the Group will be broken up. I think that this may be an option if later on there is a necessity to contain the damage to VW.

I think it will be very interesting to see what happens to the group. This is being presented in the media as a VW scandal, not a VAG one. How much of the general public understands how many brands are owned by VAG, let alone the structure of it?

There must be a fair few people thinking "that's the last time I ever buy a VW! Time to look at what's on offer from Audi, Seat Skoda...."

As you quite rightly point out, at the moment the damage is contained to VW. If VAG can contain it there and keep the other brands, then the blow will be softened hugely.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

There must be a fair few people thinking "that's the last time I ever buy a VW! Time to look at what's on offer from Audi, Seat Skoda...."

I think there is some real truth to that!

Richard

[Spyderman]

VW Still More Popular Than GM, Chrysler

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...an_gm_chrysler

[CTD]

Let's not let this spin too far out.
Remember that there has been scandals involving deadly crashes, where it has been forgotten within weeks. (ei. Toyota Airbags and Speeder, GM ignition cut).

This scandal is huge now, but it will blow over.
(the stock has already stabilised)

[Coach Ep]

Yes, it will. But it's bigger now than anything before!

How much has a regular stock lost over the last couple of days, close to 50? That's gigantic!

We've only seen the start of it so far, there's more to come...