Rumours 2016 Driver Silly Season & Beyond - Page 27

Mixer · 28 Oct 2016, 11:06 (Ref:3683585)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

It's amazing how people continue to take the wrong line on Andretti and Bourdais. Both were very very good but who's circumstances just didn't work out well. Andretti through some of his own making and Bourdais through a fair bit of unreliability. Plus both were paired with 2 of the best drivers ever.

Andretti was well past it by the time he tried F1, and commuting didn't help him.

it is quite clear that the best of Indy/Champcar doesn't really stand up to the best of F1. Jacques Villeneuve is probably the only one who really stands out.

Bourdais and Montoya were both sensational and unbeatable in Indycar, but did not shine in F1 really. Bourdais was in am average car but didn't really do anything out of the ordinary. Montoya had the speed, and with two thirds in the WDC is probably the best there has been, but he also had more of a Euro racing background than many of the classic CART/Champcar drivers.

**chunterer** · 28 Oct 2016, 17:31 (Ref:3683660)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Andretti was well past it by the time he tried F1, and commuting didn't help him.

it is quite clear that the best of Indy/Champcar doesn't really stand up to the best of F1. Jacques Villeneuve is probably the only one who really stands out.

Bourdais and Montoya were both sensational and unbeatable in Indycar, but did not shine in F1 really. Bourdais was in am average car but didn't really do anything out of the ordinary. Montoya had the speed, and with two thirds in the WDC is probably the best there has been, but he also had more of a Euro racing background than many of the classic CART/Champcar drivers.

Not sure what you base your thinking on mixer What you saw on tv or did you have a better appreciation of things than other people?

Andretti was not past it at all. He just didn't prepare properly. His qualy early in the season was decent enough and he knew he wasn't going to touch Senna and probably tried to hard leading to all sorts of mishaps. 1993 was not a true picture of what he was capable of.

I've always maintained that he would have had a better time had he stuck around for '94 except he would have had a Pug engine and not a user friendly Cosworth in a McLaren!

Montoya is one of the most talented drivers of the last 20 years, certainly one of the best racers we've ever seen! He was just not a 'yes' man and probably relied a bit much on raw skill than all the application stuff a modern driver must put up with.
However he came very close in 2003 and was an accepted frontrunner and 'name' driver for 5 seasons. Some of his drives were real top class...

Bourdais would have fared better had he got into F1 earlier. He was easily on par with a Webber or a Rosberg ability wise.

Beryl · 28 Oct 2016, 18:50 (Ref:3683694)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

It's amazing how people continue to take the wrong line on Andretti and Bourdais. Both were very very good but who's circumstances just didn't work out well. Andretti through some of his own making and Bourdais through a fair bit of unreliability. Plus both were paired with 2 of the best drivers ever.

I didn't know you thought so highly of Seb Buemi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Montoya is one of the most talented drivers of the last 20 years, certainly one of the best racers we've ever seen! He was just not a 'yes' man and probably relied a bit much on raw skill than all the application stuff a modern driver must put up with.
However he came very close in 2003 and was an accepted frontrunner and 'name' driver for 5 seasons. Some of his drives were real top class...

He was fairly evenly matched with Ralf and was outclassed by Kimi.

For me, Montoya is the most frequently overrated driver in modern F1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Bourdais would have fared better had he got into F1 earlier. He was easily on par with a Webber or a Rosberg ability wise.

I'm highly skeptical of that claim. I don't agree with it at all.

stripedcat · 29 Oct 2016, 12:37 (Ref:3683832)

As next season might be a Red Bull one - how about one of the Mercedes drivers jumping ship for the 2018 season? That's just speculation - but I'd thought I'd throw that out there.

Got to say also, that I can't see Jenson coming back into F1. Staying away can sometimes blunt your racing skills - look at what happened to Jacques. I hope he does come back - but if it's in inferior machinery again - then I think that he and Alonso should both retire. They deserve better.

GT6 · 29 Oct 2016, 15:57 (Ref:3683864)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripedcat

As next season might be a Red Bull one - how about one of the Mercedes drivers jumping ship for the 2018 season? That's just speculation - but I'd thought I'd throw that out there.

Got to say also, that I can't see Jenson coming back into F1. Staying away can sometimes blunt your racing skills - look at what happened to Jacques. I hope he does come back - but if it's in inferior machinery again - then I think that he and Alonso should both retire. They deserve better.

can't see any competitive team offering a seat to Jensen, i think his time in f1 is now over, Alonso may be in the same position to be honest

**chunterer** · 1 Nov 2016, 20:23 (Ref:3684619)

Magnussen a possible to replace Gutierrez at Haas?
Who's got the bigger and chequebook though?

It's becoming clearer that Guti may have been part of the Ferrari supply deal for this season and now that he has proven fairly comprehensively that he ain't the star in the making he was once thought to be in GP3 etc Haas are going to make their own choice.

Could he end up back at Sauber? I'd rather see Palmer get another year somewhere than him!

Hawkwood · 1 Nov 2016, 22:43 (Ref:3684640)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I'd rather see Palmer get another year somewhere than him!

Yep!
In a sport where people complain that young drivers aren't given long enough to prove themselves, the three seasons Gutierrez has had is definitely long enough!

**BertMk2** · 2 Nov 2016, 16:48 (Ref:3684801)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

It's becoming clearer that Guti may have been part of the Ferrari supply deal for this season and now that he has proven fairly comprehensively that he ain't the star in the making he was once thought to be in GP3 etc Haas are going to make their own choice.

Haas making their own choice or Ferrari have seen enough and decided 'no thanks' so no point for Haas to keep him anyway? (and therefore no Sauber driver either)

S griffin · 2 Nov 2016, 17:02 (Ref:3684803)

Palmer did alright in Mexico, staying out pretty much all race almost paid off

BSchneiderFan · 2 Nov 2016, 17:45 (Ref:3684808)

Ferrari must be looking for a post-Räikkönen driver by now, and Grosjean is looking a much better bet than Gutierrez.

**chunterer** · 3 Nov 2016, 11:16 (Ref:3684987)

I don't think Ferrari will hire Grosjean either. Still a bit of a loose cannon for their liking.

I could see Vettel going and Rosberg moving the other way along with AN Other.

**bella** · 3 Nov 2016, 11:23 (Ref:3684991)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I don't think Ferrari will hire Grosjean either. Still a bit of a loose cannon for their liking.

i agree - grosjean is too ferrari for ferrari

gert · 3 Nov 2016, 11:33 (Ref:3684994)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I don't think Ferrari will hire Grosjean either. Still a bit of a loose cannon for their liking.

Depending on how 2017 turns out: one of the Red Bull guys: Ricciardo or Sainz?

If Sainz has a good 2017 and there is (still) no opening at Red Bull Racing, I reckon other teams will be interested.

**BertMk2** · 3 Nov 2016, 11:48 (Ref:3684999)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I don't think Ferrari will hire Grosjean either. Still a bit of a loose cannon for their liking.

I could see Vettel going and Rosberg moving the other way along with AN Other.

Whilst I agree that Ferrari are unlikely to sign Grosjean I can't see why they'd want Rosberg either? He's really just a bit 'meh' isn't he? Ferrari need a big name/personality and someone that can lead a team - is Rosberg that man? Not really.

BSchneiderFan · 3 Nov 2016, 14:56 (Ref:3685037)

Ricciardo is signed at Red Bull through to the end of 2018, and I can't see him jumping ship before that unless Ferrari make huge strides forward (or the team starts to favour Verstappen). I suspect the current Red Bull pairing could last a while.

Jimmy Magnusson · 3 Nov 2016, 22:36 (Ref:3685140)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

i agree - grosjean is too ferrari for ferrari

Oh but it would be glorious. Grosjean and Vettel, now there's a Ferrari team I could get behind. Kind of 80's deja vu

**chunterer** · 6 Nov 2016, 16:13 (Ref:3685971)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Whilst I agree that Ferrari are unlikely to sign Grosjean I can't see why they'd want Rosberg either? He's really just a bit 'meh' isn't he? Ferrari need a big name/personality and someone that can lead a team - is Rosberg that man? Not really.

I think he'll be much further up Team Principal's radar at the end of this season. He's had his best year in F1 to date although he is still alarmingly reticent in the wet it must be said.

He makes a good anchor man like Berger or Patrese used to alongside their respective 'ace'teammates.

S griffin · 6 Nov 2016, 16:24 (Ref:3685979)

Rosberg is like them is not a number 1 or 2, more a 1.5. And he's proved it this year by stepping up to the title challenge, although it's not over yet

wolfhound · 8 Nov 2016, 08:49 (Ref:3686446)

Ocon looks to be at the top of Force India's list and there are ongoing contract talks.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/126994

BSchneiderFan · 8 Nov 2016, 17:12 (Ref:3686553)

So, Ocon to Force India, Magnussen to stay at Renault and Palmer to Manor?

Greem · 9 Nov 2016, 11:36 (Ref:3686727)

Magnussen to Haas. Didn't see that coming (but I wasn't looking, so that's fair enough).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37920386

djinvicta · 9 Nov 2016, 12:47 (Ref:3686736)

I think that could be a good career move for KM.

Formulahistory · 9 Nov 2016, 13:13 (Ref:3686741)

So it looks like:

Mercedes: Rosberg – Hamilton
Red Bull: Ricciardo – Verstappen
Ferrari: Vettel – Räikkönen
Force India: Pérez – Ocon
Williams: Bottas – Stroll
McLaren: Alonso – Vandoorne
Toro Rosso: Sainz – Kvyat
Haas: Grosjean – Magnussen
Renault: Hülkenberg – Palmer
Manor: Wehrlein – King
Sauber: Ericsson – Nasr

BSchneiderFan · 9 Nov 2016, 15:11 (Ref:3686768)

If Wehrlein does stay at Manor and Ocon goes to Force India, the former would be justified in feeling a bit snubbed by his Mercedes paymasters.

gert · 9 Nov 2016, 15:22 (Ref:3686769)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

If Wehrlein does stay at Manor and Ocon goes to Force India, the former would be justified in feeling a bit snubbed by his Mercedes paymasters.

Why? I think Force India decides who drives for them, not Mercedes.

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