Vettel (DEU) vs Webber (AUS) part 3 - Page 27

stripedcat · 30 May 2011, 01:13 (Ref:2887887)

He might win a race or two this season, which might happen if Vettel has a DNF. Sadly, this year he is very much a 'number 2 driver'. Very sad, as last year he stepped up to the challenge in races (Silverstone in particular).

AUSRSR · 30 May 2011, 01:23 (Ref:2887889)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

Same here - it's like Mark has lost that edge he had last year and Seb has just stepped up a gear - a small gap has turned into something of a chasm.

I'm still of a view that Mark could get a race win or two this year but he's got to work out where he's fallen off - can't see him being back in the championship hunt though.

Can't really see anyone getting close if Vettel keeps his consistency...

Shame about the pitstop for Mark, just so happened that he filtered back way down the order, Seb got away with it. Might have been a different story if he'd had of come in around 5th or 6th..

strider · 30 May 2011, 01:40 (Ref:2887895)

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleman

Mark had his one and only title shot last year and sadly missed out. Really like the guy's attitude but don't think he'll ever come close to the big one again.

Sadly, I think there may be some truth in that.

From my own observations and what I've read, Mark has two problems this year. First, Vettel's increased confidence and pace, which are not going to go away, and secondly a relative inability to adapt to the Pirelli tyres as well as Sebastian. Hopefully he can do something about that, but it needs to be soon.

mac · 30 May 2011, 01:59 (Ref:2887898)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Sadly, I think there may be some truth in that.

From my own observations and what I've read, Mark has two problems this year. First, Vettel's increased confidence and pace, which are not going to go away, and secondly a relative inability to adapt to the Pirelli tyres as well as Sebastian. Hopefully he can do something about that, but it needs to be soon.

I would add one more...

Remember very close to the end of the season last year, Horner made a comment about Vettel being the future of the team, etc.

I think it is particularly clear that this year's car has been designed and engineered to Seb's every wish and personal taste... I don't necessarily have a problem with that - it is the team's right to do whatever they want in invest in whoever they want... Just another reason for the widened gap this season, IMO.

I would suggest that Vettel's start to the season is vindication of such a call - and him taking out the championship last year would only have further enhanced such a situation.

I would also suggest that it seems quite clear that Webber has more of a struggle with the car than Vettel... In addition, I have previously expressed that I believe Webber can struggle at times when tyres are a critical factor - such as they were in 2005, and are again in 2011.

OZ_HCR32 · 30 May 2011, 03:13 (Ref:2887917)

Webber said post race he just cant live with the tyres. It seems a shame that I thought he would be the last of the drivers to struggle because of tyre compound. My opinion that he was an adaptable driver is obviosuly wrong

From here it will be interesting if the hot blow diffuser gets banned and only cold blowing it allowed. James Allen and Martin Brundle voiced the opinio mid season 2010 that Webber had the advantage over Vettel with the blown diffuser (cold blown at the time) as it was harder to drive pre ecu tweaks that allwoed for hot blowing and Webber naturally was able to drive the required style better then Vettel.

So clutching at straws here but could be a variable yet to play out this year....but tyres will still be the same and Vettels ability to look after the tyres yesterday was impressive.

...on a sidenote....post race at Monaco, when do they weigh the drivers?

AUSRSR · 30 May 2011, 04:01 (Ref:2887925)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Webber said post race he just cant live with the tyres. It seems a shame that I thought he would be the last of the drivers to struggle because of tyre compound. My opinion that he was an adaptable driver is obviosuly wrong

From here it will be interesting if the hot blow diffuser gets banned and only cold blowing it allowed. James Allen and Martin Brundle voiced the opinio mid season 2010 that Webber had the advantage over Vettel with the blown diffuser (cold blown at the time) as it was harder to drive pre ecu tweaks that allwoed for hot blowing and Webber naturally was able to drive the required style better then Vettel.

So clutching at straws here but could be a variable yet to play out this year....but tyres will still be the same and Vettels ability to look after the tyres yesterday was impressive.

...on a sidenote....post race at Monaco, when do they weigh the drivers?

Seems to struggle the most on a heavy fuel load. After that he comes quick again. We didn't get a real indication of his pace today due to being stuck in traffic again, same with being stuck behind Alonso in Spain. Painful. All he can do is keep his chin up and keep fighting which he is doing, albeit for places off the podium at this stage.

speedreader · 30 May 2011, 04:03 (Ref:2887926)

Wow, hate to see what you would all be saying if he was any lower than a fighting 3rd in the Drivers Championship & not had all of the mechanical issues he has suffered.

Through the pit lane bumbling (& we dont know why so no point in saying it who's fault it was just yet...) he was stationary for ages & that dropped him from 4th to 12th yet he managed to fight his way back to 4th. I know others suffered pitlane hiccups too but none to the same extent. He obv had a fast car (ala fastest lap on last lap once he was clear of traffic) so we can only wonder what might have been had he not been held up so badly at his 1st stop. Guess he could have tried Hamilton style passes but then everyone would be critical of his driving for different reasons...

Also, at previous rounds he seems to have suffered more KERS issues than Seb (Malaysia being the worst) as well as gearbox issues etc that have limited Friday test miles etc.

I'm not saying this is all of his problem's but it IS definitely a contributing factor for some of them...

Seems to me if they could keep him in the fight he is capable of fighting but every time they break his spirit with issues beyond his control he just does an excellent No 2 driving job & goes home

deeks6 · 30 May 2011, 04:17 (Ref:2887927)

Said it before, say it again ... he's "Alternative Strategy Guy" this year, I.E. clear No. 2, experimental setup, out first to check everything etc etc. Equal but not "really" equal if you get my drift. No conspiracies just fact. MW had his chance last year and fell short ... he was never going to get the same chance this year unless he switched to McLaren or Ferrari.

And, lets face it, if you were the team manager, who would you place your eggs with, the 37yo who is at the back end of his career now or the 23yo New Schu who is the fastest driver in the world on all evidence shown?

Even if I was Webber's brother, that would be a no-brainer!

Trev Campbell · 30 May 2011, 06:03 (Ref:2887947)

Yes it certainly seems as if most of Webbers problems revolve around tyre life. Not sure why but he always seems to be the first of the front runners to run out of grip. Especially early on a heavy fuel load.

Speed doesn't seem to be the issue as he's go the fastest lap in 4 of the last 5 races this year. It seems to be keeping the tyre alive and consisten that he has issues.

I think the bigger gap in quali is a result of the tyre issue we've mentioned and also I think that Vettel is more comforatable opening the DRS flap earlier. He seems to have more confidence in the cars aero grip with DRS open in the fast corners.

**GTRMagic** · 30 May 2011, 08:01 (Ref:2887988)

Just wait till Potsie gets to Renault, he'll show 'em

Oops... the engine is some of his issue.. being less grunty than the Ferrari and Mercedes powered cars he has trouble getting past.

I read a lot about the tyres being an issue for Mr Webber, but is that all stints or only the first one? Possibly tearing the goodness out of them in Q3 compromises their performance as a first stint race tyre for Mr Webber...

jedrinck · 30 May 2011, 08:40 (Ref:2888016)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

He's Webber's manager. So I'd say he has a lot of personal interest in the matter.

Oh really?

Marbot · 10 Jun 2011, 12:09 (Ref:2895058)

Webber set for another season of torment (along with the rest of us).

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/170062/..._red_bull.html

wnut · 10 Jun 2011, 13:20 (Ref:2895095)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Webber set for another season of torment (along with the rest of us).

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/170062/..._red_bull.html

The two of them are a very strong driver pairing, Red Bull would be nuts to change anything at this stage!

The results speak for themselves!

OZ_HCR32 · 12 Jun 2011, 04:27 (Ref:2896476)

Well, considering Webber didnt have KERS it is perhaps one of his better efforts with regards to qualifying this year. Lets hope he is starting to get his head around the tyres and is picking up his quali pace

Mr V · 12 Jun 2011, 09:18 (Ref:2896744)

Yep a good effort from Mark lets hope that the team get it sorted for the race or he might get swamped at the start.

fomoco · 13 Jun 2011, 09:09 (Ref:2897853)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Yep a good effort from Mark lets hope that the team get it sorted for the race or he might get swamped at the start.

Missed a fair bit due to long weekend down under, what is with the KERS on RED BULL Cars?

Did Mark do ok, considering the thing want work?

garcon · 13 Jun 2011, 09:20 (Ref:2897857)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fomoco

Did Mark do ok, considering the thing want work?

He pinched a podium from the best driver ever, so I guess he did ok.

Mr V · 13 Jun 2011, 09:33 (Ref:2897865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fomoco

Missed a fair bit due to long weekend down under, what is with the KERS on RED BULL Cars?

Did Mark do ok, considering the thing want work?

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

He pinched a podium from the best driver ever, so I guess he did ok.

I wonder if the rain played into Marks hands abit? Maybe the fact that they started under the safety car may have helped him instead of possibly getting swamped at a standing start?

Marbot · 13 Jun 2011, 09:34 (Ref:2897866)

Both Red Bull cars had KERS for the entire race.

stripedcat · 13 Jun 2011, 10:37 (Ref:2897921)

A pretty good race from Webber yesterday. Okay, he made a few mistakes(his attempts on Schumi and letting Button past). He still can't seem to take the fight to Vettel though and what with the new rumours going on at Red Bull(concerning Hamilton), it could be likely that this is Webber's last season there.

Mr V · 13 Jun 2011, 10:46 (Ref:2897928)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripedcat

and what with the new rumours going on at Red Bull(concerning Hamilton), it could be likely that this is Webber's last season there.

Apparently Mark is talks with Red Bull for next year, but he has year by year contracts as far as i know. But the Hamilton talk is for 2013, so maybe Mark might get another year?

AUSRSR · 13 Jun 2011, 11:18 (Ref:2897959)

Straight swap, Lewis to RBR, Mark to McLaren? Mark would get on well with Jenson

Marbot · 13 Jun 2011, 11:20 (Ref:2897963)

New regulations for 2013. Just about anyone could hit the ground running with those.

**Bononi** · 13 Jun 2011, 11:36 (Ref:2897983)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUSRSR

Straight swap, Lewis to RBR, Mark to McLaren? Mark would get on well with Jenson

Wow, that would be something but that's too early to say... I don't think Ron will work this way with his wonder kid.

**Born Racer** · 13 Jun 2011, 18:33 (Ref:2898288)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

He pinched a podium from the best driver ever, so I guess he did ok.

But he did it with DRS, way too easily, and a significantly better car.

Not a great race from Mark really, just good. He seems to be realistically accepting his lot though, which doesn't bode well for his chances. I sense he's not pushing himself as hard last year in the sense of being hard on himself. Perhaps he does need to be harder on himself to get better results. Short of being a sports psychologist who actually sees him at close hand, it's impossible to know though.

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