The future of Corvette

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

The cars they build are the least of Detroits concerns (other than Washington sticking its nose where it does not belong as to how to build a car) the problems are union contracts and the the huge amount of retiree benefits that Detroit can no longer afford to pay.

I know, I know..

But the Three Bigs needs a cashflow, to fund these contracts and retiree benefits which is dragging the firms down..

And that is kinda hard, when you build something, which havent got any reason to exist anymore.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Still, I think that the free market has got to work without interference.

The cars produced by the Big Three are obsolete, and any other business (Besides banking) would have to take the fall for their shortcomings.

I'm not arguing for one action or another, but it's completely wrong to say, "The cars produced by the Big Three are obsolete..." Some are not competitive in the market, some are. Some are advanced in their engineering, some are not. The problem is that there are companies that hang onto all their brands simply because they can't imagine anything else.

Saturn was created for a purpose; it failed miserably; let it go.
Buick sells well in retirement communities and China. Build it in China and import a few here for the old folks. Kill much of the huge separate marketing/advertising/management overhead. Hell, they've got a start on it having dumped Tiger.
Pontiac a "niche" car? What niche is that? The bad car, we don't have a clue what we are doing niche?
GMC? Hummer? Saab? Please spare me.

Cadillac and Chebby between the two of them cover every market in the automotive world from trucks to compacts. That's what GM should be, period.

And tell the UAW you're going to transfer your production to right-to-work states. If you need the protection of the courts for that, then file.

So far they've not made the case for their own survival.

[1969MGCGTdriver]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

The cars produced by the Big Three are obsolete

That's one hell of a blanket statement! Don't forget that the Big 3 also produce cars in other pars of the world, such as Europe & UK. IIRC, you guys over there love the Mondeo & Focus. Aren't they made by Ford? Aren't Vauxhall and Opel part of GM? Don't think for a minute that if one of them goes down you guys wont be hurt as well...

[SebringMG]

Don't think we are not aware of the connections - worth noting though that Ford and GM Europe are still very profitable, in many ways they are keeping the US arm afloat.

Ford Europe were seriously considering separating from the parent company so as to ensure their survival if the parent goes under. Unfortunately they left it to late as it would take over a year to complete the separation.

Ford and GM (Europe) build some of the best cars in Europe - nearly the quality of VAG, BMW etc while still being better than Pug/Citroen/Renault - similar quality to honda and toyota but more design flair while being very good value for money.

I have not sampled US fare for some years so not fair to comment (tho a 95 Taurus was so far behind the equivalent UK Mondeo in quality/ability etc it was funny) - the only stuff we see on a regular basis are the Vette and various Caddies - neither sell well unfortunately with the only local dealer i am aware of being replaced after 6 months of next to no sales with an Aston dealership.

The Big 3 will survive - they just need to start being pro-active and sort their houses out and not rely on government intervention. I could see a scenario where Chrysler fails totally as for the most part their products appear to the outsider to be utter dross......

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

The cars they build are the least of Detroits concerns (other than Washington sticking its nose where it does not belong as to how to build a car) the problems are union contracts and the the huge amount of retiree benefits that Detroit can no longer afford to pay.

Bingo! you hit the nail right on the head! If they want to save the US car manufacturers, they need to modify their union contracts and retirement benefits to be more in line with other international car manufacturing firms.

DK

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by mattcat

Not you, so why should you care, right?

Yes, not me. I'll get concerned when the Republic fails.

To a point, I don't care because jobs are being lost anyway. There's no way to stop it from happening. Even if Detroit gets loan funding, its going to hurt. Whats todays headline? 533,000 jobs lost in November alone and alomst 2 million since a year ago.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Yes, not me. I'll get concerned when the Republic fails.

Such an attitude is both ignorance and arrogance.
The Republic will not fail, without civil war, but for anyone to sit around with ones thumb up ones buttocks and think only of me, myself and I, is the reason the country is screwed right now; although the Dem. have been promoting such a slimey attitude, and now they have succeeded.

[Hugewally]

Its simply neither Bob.

[AU N EGL]

Who needs electric cars or hybrids anymore? Fuel ( regular 87 ) was $1.39 / Gallon this morning. Gas is predictions to back at $1.00 very soon for 87 octane in the US. ( no the world is not running out of petrolium and yes technolgy is keeping automobile polution levels down.

With fuel prices this low, the consumers will demand those BIG SUVs again. Hey the deal lots are full of them.

Dealers SELL big SUVs everyone makes money. Everyone is happy again.

If fuel prices in other parts of the world have not come down blame your governments. Oil prices are what now under or about $50 a barral. (Dec 2008) Governments want to control their people with fear and HIGH taxes.

Screw the hybrids. Saving the big auto manufacutes will come with these low fuel prices and laying off dead wood emplyees.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

If fuel prices in other parts of the world have not come down blame your governments. Oil prices are what now under or about $50 a barral. (Dec 2008) Governments want to control their people with fear and HIGH taxes.

Screw the hybrids. Saving the big auto manufacutes will come with these low fuel prices and laying off dead wood emplyees.

Bravo, Bravo!

[Aslak Vind]

Well, screw the enviroment when the americans can ride their big, heavy and ineffiecient cars again?

Then everything is bliss?

[The359]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Such an attitude is both ignorance and arrogance.
The Republic will not fail, without civil war, but for anyone to sit around with ones thumb up ones buttocks and think only of me, myself and I, is the reason the country is screwed right now; although the Dem. have been promoting such a slimey attitude, and now they have succeeded.

LOL. Aren't these the same people you called socialists?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by The359

LOL. Aren't these the same people you called socialists?

That is correct; the socialists want the huddled masses to be thinking only of themselves because then they will come begging to the socialist over-masters to give them their crumbs, and do what is told to get them.

The great society showed just how well it served the black population; gave them their rights, they already had by law, but at the same time make sure you take away their dignity by making them whores to the government pimps.

[The359]

OK then *puts on tinfoil hat*

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Well, screw the enviroment when the americans can ride their big, heavy and ineffiecient cars again?

Then everything is bliss?

Aslak

I am sorry, but it is not an environmental issue. There is more then enough petroleum in the world to provide energy even at more then 10x daily usage. It will just take a bit to get it, but we will. Seberia may be one of the new Petrolium meccas of the world.

when we really look at the environmental issues, and I am not saying we should not but don't take what governments give you as the gospel truth. They lie too. ( Have the petrol prices in Denmark come down by 50% this past three months? if not way? ) Petroleum has dropped from over $130 per barrolto under $50 a barrol, so yes Fuel or petrol prices should have dropped by more then 70%. If not ask why? No demand why not?

Yes we need alternatives to produce electricity too. Wind, wave, solar, Nucular, geo thermal, and other sources.

As far as vehicals, we drive our "big cars, SUVs and Pick-up trucks" because we can. it is OUR FREE CHOICE. Not what some government TELLS US TO DO. My DD is a Chevy 3500 deisel pick up truck. My wifes DD is a Chevy 1500 petrol pick up.

Rember, I am a tree farmer. I grow more then 5000 acres of trees for the lumber and housing industry. So yes I know very well and watch all my C02 & O2 montering stations, cut sample trees to measure growth. Send tree top samples to university labs for polutant testing.

Guess what? trees that are closer to higher C02 concontration cities and highways GROW BETTER. and a plus, trees produce something else. OXYGEN for us to breath.

The envoirnmental issues are not easy to understand. and world climatic changes can not be measued only back 100 years. or 25 years. Studies that show climatic changes or evidence goes back some millions of years. Again not easy to understand or simple.

Granted most climatic changes are measured in ice core samples from anitartica but that only goes back 110 years ( or there abouts)

the UN commetties have no ideas on what they are doing. heck the UN is one of the most corrupt and wastefull orgainzations in the world.

Do we just go crazy and waste ? No. Not that either.

If some other ppl chose to drive what they choose to drive, GREAT. That is THIER choice.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Who needs electric cars or hybrids anymore? Fuel ( regular 87 ) was $1.39 / Gallon this morning. Gas is predictions to back at $1.00 very soon for 87 octane in the US. ( no the world is not running out of petrolium and yes technolgy is keeping automobile polution levels down.

There is enough petroleum in the Canadian shales to provide gasoline for 100 years. It will just take the price going up again to make it worthwhile to obtain.

DK

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by The359

OK then *puts on tinfoil hat*

If you wish but you will look silly.

[David]

With our highly efficient guvmint about to start using my money to direct GM, along with the announcements about Audi mostly out of ALMS and Honda gone from F1 and all the layoffs in NASCAR, it is difficult for me to believe that Pratt & Miller is continuing at full budget and staff on Corvette Racing testing and development. Does anyone have any current facts about P & M?

Whatever the future, call me an optimist, I am hoping for some outside sponsors to ride in to the rescue. Or maybe a good old days Mecom-style "buyout" to keep the feds happy?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by David

With our highly efficient guvmint about to start using my money to direct GM, along with the announcements about Audi mostly out of ALMS and Honda gone from F1 and all the layoffs in NASCAR, it is difficult for me to believe that Pratt & Miller is continuing at full budget and staff on Corvette Racing testing and development. Does anyone have any current facts about P & M?

Whatever the future, call me an optimist, I am hoping for some outside sponsors to ride in to the rescue. Or maybe a good old days Mecom-style "buyout" to keep the feds happy?

Hindy on MWM series 3 episode 40 right at the end of the show (at the 2hr mark) stated that it was fully funded by commercial sponsors for next year.



L.P.

[David]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hindy on MWM series 3 episode 40 right at the end of the show (at the 2hr mark) stated that it was fully funded by commercial sponsors for next year.



L.P.

I'm lovin' the sound of that and will keep my optimism at full boost to believe it will actually stay that way.

[The359]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

If you wish but you will look silly.

Pot-kettle?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by David

I'm lovin' the sound of that and will keep my optimism at full boost to believe it will actually stay that way.

Compuware isn't a company hard up for cash and IT work will always be out there so I'm betting they have the cash, plus they have been with P&M for a long time now. Even in a recession there's money out there, not a lot; but some sectors profit, the retail chain I work at is recording record customer counts and sales volume every week, and no it's not walmart.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Who needs electric cars or hybrids anymore? Fuel ( regular 87 ) was $1.39 / Gallon this morning. Gas is predictions to back at $1.00 very soon for 87 octane in the US. ( no the world is not running out of petrolium and yes technolgy is keeping automobile polution levels down.

With fuel prices this low, the consumers will demand those BIG SUVs again. Hey the deal lots are full of them.

Dealers SELL big SUVs everyone makes money. Everyone is happy again.

If fuel prices in other parts of the world have not come down blame your governments. Oil prices are what now under or about $50 a barral. (Dec 2008) Governments want to control their people with fear and HIGH taxes.

Screw the hybrids. Saving the big auto manufacutes will come with these low fuel prices and laying off dead wood emplyees.

GLOBAL WARMING! The U.S. seems to be the only planet on earth that hasn't accepted this yet. The ALMS has even tried to lead the manufacturers down this road and inspire technological innovation that would make the Detroit 3 relevant vs. the imports from Asia and Europe.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

GLOBAL WARMING! The U.S. seems to be the only planet on earth that hasn't accepted this yet. The ALMS has even tried to lead the manufacturers down this road and inspire technological innovation that would make the Detroit 3 relevant vs. the imports from Asia and Europe.

and how about getting back to Corvette in 09'!





L.P.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Ok, Horndawg, how about this - The fact that Corvette is running on E85 may make it easier to preserve the program because GM has been under to pressure by the gov't to innovate and reduce emmissions. The fact that they are not running a full season may also make it easier to sell the idea they are using only large events to market themselves. Then, when they get the bailout, the program will not have a bullseye on it to get cut. Just my 2 cents, feel free to disagree.