Cosworth Done Deal

[macdaddy]

Ah! But of course! There must be a conspiracy!
They bought Cosworth for one reason, and one reason only.
To beat Newman/Haas.

I don't think so, indycool.

[indycool]

No, really didn't say that, macdaddy. Haas controls the Lola parts, so that's a wash in any "conspiracy theory." But between Haas and the Amigos, it's a Skip Barber format and they have teams competing, too -- half the grid.

[jjspierx]

As long as the racing is fair and everyones engines are identical, I really don't care what goes in the boardroom, and no I really wouldn't care if I found out that Dale Coyne was getting a discount on his engines and rebuilds because he wouldn't be able to race if he had to the pay the full price. I am failing to see how that would be a conflict of interest, and how that would give the 3 amigos an advantage.

[f1manoz]

Indycool, you are grasping at straws. KK and Forsythe buying Cosworth is nothing but good news for the series as it guarantees engines for 2005 and beyond.

There is no conspiracy theory here.

There is no 'conflict of interest'. Everyone will receive the same spec. engine like they have all this year.

These two men have acted in nothing but the BEST INTEREST for the series, to see ChampCars grow and prosper. And these two men (plus PG as owner of OWRS) are certainly not cheats and won't be bending the rules.

[indycool]

Okay, if you think it's good news and all problems are solved and all guarantees of life expectancy are in place, well and good. When some car owner other than The Three Amigos and Haas says, "geez, I got the Cosworth engine for "X" amount but Sam over there only paid "Y" for it," the "guarantee" of running the first team goes away with an owner POed. The six smaller owners, at some point, are going to say, "well, we can't run unless...." Then what happens.

[codename_47]

If they were really that unscrupulous, the IRL would find itself without Cosworth engines for this year too.

The fact they honoured that deal shows you a lot about their intentions and morals, I really doubt that'll be a problem.

Besides, you could argue that owning the series has hurt the compettitiveness of the teams. PKV didn't suddenly start winning races, Forsythe took a back step, and Rocketsports won one race through clever adaptation of the rules which were changed for the next race. Again, if they were only out for themselves, that would never have happened.

I really don't think they work like that.

[indycool]

codename, did you read Kalkhoven's statements about "contingent liability" and the fact that KK and GF picked up $60m worth in the sale?

He isn't servicing the Chevworth because it's out of the kindness of his heart. He's servicing the Chevworth because the sale deal protects it -- and all of Cosworth's other deals -- contractually.

[f1manoz]

Originally posted by indycool
codename, did you read Kalkhoven's statements about "contingent liability" and the fact that KK and GF picked up $60m worth in the sale?

He isn't servicing the Chevworth because it's out of the kindness of his heart. He's servicing the Chevworth because the sale deal protects it -- and all of Cosworth's other deals -- contractually.

So what's the big problem with all this? Cosworth has been bought and paid for and it's obvious KK and GF know what they are doing. Hell, they've bought ChampCar and now have Cosworth.

KK and GF will continue to service the Chevworth for that other series until Chevy pull out. What's the big deal? It's in the contract, it's in the contract. Unlike certain other folk over the wall, ChampCar are not about putting other people out of business.

[The Snout]

Originally posted by indycool
Okay, if you think it's good news and all problems are solved and all guarantees of life expectancy are in place, well and good. When some car owner other than The Three Amigos and Haas says, "geez, I got the Cosworth engine for "X" amount but Sam over there only paid "Y" for it," the "guarantee" of running the first team goes away with an owner POed. The six smaller owners, at some point, are going to say, "well, we can't run unless...." Then what happens.

No one here believes this solves 'all problems' with this series, and if they do they are out of touch with the challenges we have at the moment. What the Cosworth deal has done is given the series options as to it's business model in regards to it's engine package and handling any manufacturers that may want to be involved. It's also opened up a lot of networking for GF and KK via Cosworth which can impact on CCWS also.

[macdaddy]

The way they hand out pop-off valves on a Friday morning, that's what they should do with the engines. Or just have everybody pick a number out of a hat. This is not a big deal.

Are all of the IRL teams getting identical engines and paying the same price for them, indycool? Just curious.

In the last year, KK and GF have become two of the most powerful men in racing. There's no looking back now. They've proven their comittment to the series time and time again. You don't even need "rose-coloured glasses" anymore, because the picture already looks mighty rosey!

ChampCar is NOT going away. It's here to stay.
This offseason is SO much different from last year!
Ain't it great!

[The Snout]

Cosworth also build engines for Aprilia in the MotoGP. They might be building engines for Off Shore Powerboat Racing, and they already are going into tuner kits. Add to that engines likely for a CCWS ladder series and new CCWS specs coming for '06, the guys at Cosworth are going to be busy.

Might be interesting too if GPWC gets off the ground and Bernie needs engines to run in his series after the manufacturers leave. This deal is good for CCWS, but Cosworth is so much more than just us too.

Yeah, Macdaddy, would never have believed we'd be here at this time a year ago.

[Flatspot]

Originally posted`by indycool
When some car owner other than The Three Amigos and Haas says, "geez, I got the Cosworth engine for "X" amount but Sam over there only paid "Y" for it,"

What am I missing here?
I have been under the impression (maybe wrongfully) that Champ Car owns the engines and leases them to each team along with a contract for a certain number of rebuilds by Cosworth at set intervals and that each team has an identical contract for each car they run. Is that not the case?
If it is not certainly could/should be. That way the playing field is equal and the costs are contained giving additional teams incentive to come to Champ Car and pay drivers instead of manufacturers. Engine lotto to keep things honest is a no-brain solution. They could even implement the old "anyone can buy the winners engine" rule if people were that concerned.

[macdaddy]

Most folks are wearing shades because the future's so bright.
Some are wearing them because they like black more than rose.
Even to the point that they've convinced themselves that there is no such colour as "rose".

[Kicking-back]

It will be engine lottery I'm sure.

Put it this way - the future of many IRL teams hangs in the balance because of engine wrangles.

In ChampCar engines are now a total non-issue, which is very very positive.

[jjspierx]

Ok, I'm now convinced, The three amigos can officially do NOTHING right. No matter what they do, it is going to be contreversial and probably wrong in at least one person who I can think of's eyes.

[Kicking-back]

It increasingly seems that way, jjspierx.

There are posters who claim to be even handed but are simply anti-ChampCar.

[mountainstar]

Originally posted by jjspierx
Ok, I'm now convinced, The three amigos can officially do NOTHING right. No matter what they do, it is going to be contreversial and probably wrong in at least one person who I can think of's eyes.

So true. It seems some will throw anything at the ceiling to see if it sticks, such is the desperation.

As far as I know, this year all pop off valves, ecu's and engines are doled out on a blind lottery basis so there can be no accusations of unfairness in regards to engines.

Autosport reported last month that 70% of IRL teams are "financially propped up by engine manufacturers". I think the advantage for champcar is not having that situation and working towards being a fan and sponsor driven series. I for one am glad that Cosworth has been bought by two solid people and that we don't have to worry about Tony George showing up with his hammer to smash our turbos up.

[gttouring]

so what have the 3 done wrong
bring a foundation to the series? bring a good base, a stable supply of engines, and chassis, and create a place where the well prepared can triumph over slackers...not wizardry or sheer dollars..
it is true it is basically a spec series, and why run Champcar and not Superfund or GP2 or F3000, well becasue Champcar is the highlight, it is the headliner, it is so much more than its current state, it is the Phoenix Rising, so far so good

[Tim Northcutt]

I think this deal to acquire Cosworth is a great move for Kalkhoven, Forsythe, and for the Series...

and as it stands, now, I don't see how anyone could reasonalbly view it otherwise....

am I missing something here???

[Snrub]

Originally posted by macdaddy
Are all of the IRL teams getting identical engines and paying the same price for them

No they're not. BTW: I hadn't noticed, has anyone mentioned that some people might get upset by the conflict of interest with CC's engines?