PCM Pull the plug on ALMS campaign - Page 3

SALEEN S7R · 7 Sep 2005, 07:36 (Ref:1401066)

Yes but at the moment Gruppe M are surley the #1 Porsche GT team, 2 cars with works backing in FIA GT and 1 in the LMES. No other team at the moment has this sort of backing, not even AJR who at the moment only have 1 works car and 1 car entered independantly.

Pete Fenelon · 7 Sep 2005, 10:11 (Ref:1401180)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Is this either a message to say if your a privateer then don't try and compete against the works outfits of the same manufacturer, or is it a cry that works teams in the GT classes spoil things?

The former. PCM have the potential to be at least as good a team (IMHO) as ACEMCO. But what can you do with a three-year-old car against a works team with an expensive and highly-developed new model?

Works teams will inevitably up the stakes, but ideally they'd up the stakes of inter marque rivalry, not intra marque competition.

jhansen · 7 Sep 2005, 17:47 (Ref:1401583)

Oh come on, the Saleen isn't a new model either. How far do they go back? 2001 maybe?

ACEMCO are competitive because they have worked very hard at developing their car. They do what it takes to be competitive. They test, add upgrades, switched from Pirelli to Michelin for this year, and have two experienced drivers. This game isn't easy. The C5R is no spring chicken, but it doesn't suck either. IMO it could be as competitive as the S7R.

The Badger · 7 Sep 2005, 19:44 (Ref:1401657)

If Pratt & Miller were still running a C5R it would still win . The trouble is that a factory or a very well financed team can completely strip and rebuild a car between races and throw parts that are not even timexed . A privateer doesnt normally have such a luxury .
I completely understand PCM for doing what they did . It aint fair to try and make somebody fight with one hand tied behind their back .
True what you say about Acemco , they even have a spare chassis which I presume is the test hack .

full throttle · 8 Sep 2005, 15:41 (Ref:1402024)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

No, it's just that AJR does receive more than just drivers from Porsche. Which is what I believe you were trying to state.

As do a couple other teams. Help with parts and pieces is part of the deals. That's what is meant by varying levels of factory help.

cybersdorf · 8 Sep 2005, 19:17 (Ref:1402233)

Porsche's allocation to different levels of support to different teams in the various series, and the constant trouncing their own customers get in the process, isn't helping the situation any more than GM/P&M not lending support to someone who has bought one of their cars (and of course we don't know what the initial agreement was so perhaps the misunderstanding happened at that point already). Look at the entry of FIA-GT2 and will you see what I mean.

One or two private C5-Rs would do the ALMS good, and I am sure P&M has the resources to provide support for these cars. Does Team Corvette like to win against noone?

Having read through this thread, Messr. Matthews and Krohn have been mentioned. They cars they finance in other chempionships are entries that would be badly needed in ALMS. In the end, they were driven away. Mr. Krohn chucked it in and teamed up with Kevin Buckler after receiving poor factory support from Lamborghini. Why even give cars to customers when there is no support to back them up?

The Badger · 8 Sep 2005, 19:41 (Ref:1402252)

Surely when a team buys a car from the factory , a contract for after sales service is discussed when the deal is done ? If support is not forthcomeing , would that not a breach of contract ?

cybersdorf · 8 Sep 2005, 21:24 (Ref:1402333)

...if that is what it says in the contract, yes.

The Badger · 8 Sep 2005, 21:27 (Ref:1402336)

So , there is not "nessessarily" customer support included ?

cybersdorf · 9 Sep 2005, 11:15 (Ref:1402746)

Depends on the contract!

The Badger · 13 Sep 2005, 15:39 (Ref:1406739)

The web site "mariantic" is reporting that PCR has put in a bid to run a DBR9 in the ALMS for next year . I really hope that they kick some Corvette Butt after the raw treatment that they recieved !!!

Fogelhund · 13 Sep 2005, 17:29 (Ref:1406830)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

The web site "mariantic" is reporting that PCR has put in a bid to run a DBR9 in the ALMS for next year . I really hope that they kick some Corvette Butt after the raw treatment that they recieved !!!

In the words of Public Enemy. Don't believe the Hype.

billnchristy · 26 Sep 2005, 16:57 (Ref:1417113)

PCM Announced today they will run a Pontiac Riley DP in GA.

JAG · 26 Sep 2005, 18:02 (Ref:1417179)

Still amazed they believed they could win with a 3/4 year old of C5-R!

BTW, since when did the DP class become a one make series?

Danske · 26 Sep 2005, 18:36 (Ref:1417203)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Still amazed they believed they could win with a 3/4 year old of C5-R!

Ah, I think the story is that they believed they'd be able to upgrade in the near future to a C6-R in which they could be more competitive. Ur, too many posts in this thread to see if that's been said here before.

Quote:

BTW, since when did the DP class become a one make series?

Intentionally inflamatory and off-topic comment! Mommy!!!

paul-collins · 26 Sep 2005, 18:46 (Ref:1417214)

Which part is intentionally inflamatory? The "one make" comment or the "too many posts in this thread to see if that's been said here before" one?

richmini99 · 26 Sep 2005, 19:17 (Ref:1417249)

Quote:

BTW, since when did the DP class become a one make series?

Never.

Crawford, Doran, and Fabcar are there week in and week out as well. The VIR entry list also has a new-look Picchio and Chase on it.

Danske · 26 Sep 2005, 19:23 (Ref:1417258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Which part is intentionally inflamatory? The "one make" comment or the "too many posts in this thread to see if that's been said here before" one?

Hey, the thread review in the quoted reply page stops before the start of the thread. I waded through a whole bunch of posts and one by Fab complaining about ALMS vs. GARRA posts before throwing in the towel when hitting the bottom and a link to "the whole thread".

cybersdorf · 26 Sep 2005, 19:32 (Ref:1417271)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Still amazed they believed they could win with a 3/4 year old of C5-R!

BTW, since when did the DP class become a one make series?

In ALMS you need an Audi R8 to win, in GA you need a Riley-Pontiac to win. Such is the way things work in motor racing, the best product will prevail. (Only that I somehow don't see many GA fans complaining about GM plotting to crush sportscar racing - yet.

Because this is GM, right? This is different.)

SALEEN S7R · 26 Sep 2005, 19:36 (Ref:1417276)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

In ALMS you need an Audi R8 to win,

You do? Havent you been watching the ALMS this year then? Dyson are this season every bit as competitve as Champion and indeed still have a good chance of taking both championships.

JAG · 26 Sep 2005, 19:56 (Ref:1417291)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

In ALMS you need an Audi R8 to win, in GA you need a Riley-Pontiac to win. Such is the way things work in motor racing, the best product will prevail. (Only that I somehow don't see many GA fans complaining about GM plotting to crush sportscar racing - yet.

Because this is GM, right? This is different.)

Thats my point.

GA is meant to be cheap as chips racing, any manufactuer can win, any team can win.

...........only its not panning out like that is it.

Vacarella · 26 Sep 2005, 20:09 (Ref:1417309)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Thats my point.

GA is meant to be cheap as chips racing, any manufactuer can win, any team can win.

...........only its not panning out like that is it.

Again, the obvious point is missed - Anybody with the money and the inclination can purchase and race any chassis/engine combination in Grand-American. Therefore, the ballance of power goes to the competitor not the manufacturer. If Riley/Pontiac is the best combination, a thousand people can buy it. That cannot be said in the world of the ACO where exclusivity and cost prohibition rules and fustration reigns as a result.
_______________
For Nino

cybersdorf · 26 Sep 2005, 20:51 (Ref:1417335)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vacarella

If Riley/Pontiac is the best combination, a thousand people can buy it.

...so too bad for you if you've bought a Fabcar-Porsche.

billnchristy · 26 Sep 2005, 20:57 (Ref:1417344)

I wouldnt bank on that just yet. The P part of the Porsche Fabcar doesnt take losing lightly. The car was already running top 5 at the Glen before the Max Job. Next year it will have a few more tricks up its sleeve and contend for wins.

As for Crawford, there are a couple to few more being built with some pretty decent names attached to them.

Doran...we can only hope, I still feel they are the most consistant of the non-Riley cars...have we ever seen a Privateer Crawford win? Nope, yet private Dorans have won and podiumed (word?).

Picchio...supposedly coming back.

Sure Riley is at the top, probably will be for a while. Pontiac is at the top too, dont know what the 50# reduction in fuel pressure will do to them, we will have to wait and see.

On top of that major DP manufacturers are building GT cars now too, the field for the 24 should be gigantic with both DP and GT.

One make? Maybe 1 1/2

paul-collins · 26 Sep 2005, 21:06 (Ref:1417353)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vacarella

Again, the obvious point is missed - Anybody with the money and the inclination can purchase and race any chassis/engine combination in Grand-American. Therefore, the ballance of power goes to the competitor not the manufacturer. If Riley/Pontiac is the best combination, a thousand people can buy it. That cannot be said in the world of the ACO where exclusivity and cost prohibition rules and fustration reigns as a result.

If you mean "prohibitive costs" rule in the ACO where they don't in GA, well, how many privateer (non-Ganassi) winners have there been in GA?

As has been pointed out elsewhere, you can't stop those with money from spending it - and trackside engineering is still a worthwhile expenditure.

It's folly to suggest that just by buying a car that's basically the same as what SunTrust (Riley factory) you can run with them for the whole race. You still need to match their investment in personnel and testing.

In this context, PCM ought to be in a good position to compete.

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