Flash Nilsson's views on touring car racing

[PDS]

Over the past year I have visited the WTCC, BTCC, STCC and DTC as well as the DTM.

All the S2000 racing wherever they were held, were just the same as any other country!
I visited the DTC and the STCC at Sturup in Sweden. The racing was identical! And I'm sure if the BTCC ran there the racing would again be the same! Top teams with good drivers out front with the slower cars running at the back.
Any touring car driver will tell that the art of racing a touring car is keeping momentum, even during the supertouring era, Just watch one make a mistake at a corner, miss a gear, and they loose 2, maybe 3 places, until they get back-up to speed! 2 litre touring cars are not renound for their exceleration!

You had the top professional teams and you had the teams doing it on a shoestring! It's the smaller teams that make for an interesting championship. It would be foolish to get rid of them.
I remember a young driver that entered the 1994 BTCC, didn't have the gear and facilities the big teams had. I even remember during a Brands Hatch pitwalk, he was standing there waiting for the public to get past the top teams to get to him. His name was James Thompson! Most people like James start at the bottom!

And you have circuits that are state of the art and some that are just in a state!

I have in the past visited many circuits throughout Europe, in Holland, Germany and Sweden. The condition of the circuit did not effect my opinion of the racing. Granted, there are some circuits I will not be rushing back-to!

Just because you don't have big screens, capacity crowds and state of the art circuits, the championship is bad!

I for one will be attending touring car races for many years to come...

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Originally Posted by JMeissner

What he ment was the suggestions in this thread that touring car races should be held at smaller tracks.

knock hill is the perfect example

[redshoes]

I'm sure Alan Gow, Jonathan Palmer and many others would be ecstatic at the thought of getting 150,000 on a regular basis. Back in the real world however, the suggestion is laughable. Outside of F1 and Moto GP very few meetings get anything approaching 100K - Renault only get that sort of figure because they give away 1/4M tickets.

50 Euro for entry without a seat is expensive, but that's how things are in the UK. I could pay the same to go to a concert and stand all evening - at least at a racetrack I can sit on the grass. My experience of European races is that not only are tickets cheaper but that giveaways are more common. In the days of the ETCC/GT Super Racing Weekend package, promoters used to regularly give away 10,000s of free tickets.

Originally Posted by PDS

Just because you don't have big screens, capacity crowds and state of the art circuits, the championship is bad!

Can't disagree with anything Peter has said, but that comment sums up why there's been such a reaction to Flash's comments. For me racing is about racing, it's not about the grid girls, the lunchtime stunt show, the air display, the free cap, etc etc. Flash seems to think the opposite. Quite noticeably in his original column he has actually commented on how good the racing is, just what the facilities are like. Don't get me wrong, these things are nice to have but they shouldn't be a replacement for good racing.

DTM is a prime example of this - it's all smoke and mirrors. The championship organisation may be very good, they may be experts at fan hype, but no amount of fireworks and taxi rides can disguise the fact that what happens on track isn't actually that good.

BTCC and much of the support package on the other hand produces some good racing without all the hype. So what if you have to sit on the grass and don't get Terry Grant spinning his Legend again.

[keme]

I reckon we are only talking about spectators on the track itself. But the "spectators" of TV and radio? Are they "persona non grata"?

Surely they are also contributing to the budget of the track and motorsport in general with a small amount!

[Wilbo]

Originally Posted by JMeissner

From Mr Nilsson:

Hello all touring car friends!

I am proud and happy that I have started such a good debate about touring car racing! Of course I will explain further what I mean. First of all, the right thing to do is not to switch class if you are not pleased with the current status of the one you are in. I love touring cars and I am completely uninterested in GT-racing. I love touring cars in all countries and would love if the TC-racing becomes the biggest in Sweden, Spain, England, Italy and so on. What interest people most in almost the entire world are cars. People love cars and want to read, drive, race or se others race in them.

DTM: This is a fantastically run championship with strong brands where the manufacturers have junior programs in F3 or other classes where the drivers then have the chance to join the DTM teams. They have F1 drivers and other pro drivers that drive DTM both before and after their careers. The championship is run in the countries where most cars are sold like Germany, Spain and the UK. Of course you wonder what is wrong when only two manufacturers wants to be seen in the championship. I do not have the answer, but I do not doubt that they have that as a top priority to solve.

WTCC. To drive on smaller circuits with smaller spectator stands and shorter straights so that the cars look fast feels like a made up reason. What people tend to forget is that it actually is the World Championship for touring cars. Compare that with football. No one would accept to run the World Championship for football at smaller arenas so the matches look more spectacular and that it looks like there are more spectators. That works for club racing, but not for the World Championship of touring cars.

And when the cars are slower compared to Carrera Cup cars driven by old fat men, you tend to get worried. A completely new thinking is required here.

And while we are on the subject of comparing the World Championship with other World Championships: when the organizers includes steroids (dispensations) in the rules to let different athletes (manufacturers) win you immediately destroy all sporting credibility which in the end makes it difficult to get media coverage/sponsors/spectators. The motorsport needs to clear the rule changing frenzy to get back on track again.

BTCC. England has been, think they are, wants to be number one in motorsport. What I met only 120 km from Piccadilly Circus in London should have been a great final of a fantastic championship in a country with a population of 60 million, but it was awful.

I guess running a race at Thruxton during the championship is ok, but to put a final there was a dreadful decision spiced with bad judgement. I say it again and you can say against me if you were there: The BTCC final was a display of motorsport arrangement at its worst. You must be able to require more of England and BTCC than that. Especially with the prices of 50 € that does not include ticket for the stands. If I had known that I would have required to get 500 € from Alan Gow to even go there.

All in all - a motorsports event properly managed should attract no less 60.000 to 150.000 spectators, just like any other football match. Sweden averages about 15.000 to 25.000 at their STCC races but then there is only a population of 9 million on an area that is bigger than Germany. I hope, even if I doubt it, that the FIA takes a real responsibility to clear up the motorsport so that we can use the same sized goals and playing fields, if we are to compare it to other successful sports again. A bigger responsibility for the costs is also needed plus that a bigger entertainment value is needed to be delivered to the spectators, meaning bigger requirements on the organizers successively. Then I think things could be all right in the end.

Keep debating, touring car friends!

Kind regards,
Janne "Flash" Nilsson

Com'on guys he's right.


I say this as a racer:

Racing in the Uk is the 'pits' at the moment.

He is absolutley spot on about the final at Thruxton (see its on the GP Circuit at Brands Next year, 1 of only 3 good tracks in the UK IMO). I cringed at the thought of Giovannadi's family visitng the UK only to sit in a pre war fabricated shelter (pit garage).

Talking of spectators. Crowds in Europe are much bigger than in the UK. I remember the first time I went into Europe to race a Super tourer (quick and invloving, unlike modern day tc) in front of 60,000+. We are supposed to have the national 'premier' tc championship and we get what 20,000 on average and at all other racing events in the UK about as many supporters as a village cricket game.

There are many championships out there that offer much more value and enjoyment than in the UK and that's why I now race abroad...

Time to join the fat old men in the Porsches me thinks.....

Seriously though I am passionate about tourings cars and want to see the buzz back in tc racing.

[Wilbo]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I'm sure Alan Gow, Jonathan Palmer and many others would be ecstatic at the thought of getting 150,000 on a regular basis.

Outside of F1 and Moto GP very few meetings get anything approaching 100K - Renault only get that sort of figure because they give away 1/4M tickets.

Food for thought....

[MonkeyMagic]

When I read this article I thought it was a pretty severe but right critic of the problems that Touring Cars championshis face...plus this guy is right in the middle of it as he's a race driver.

I have to admit I agreed with some of the things that he said but not on the DTM stuff, the DTM is boring to watch, plain and simple, cars are fast, stuck on their lines, no overtakes, nothing happening, everything is done in the pits with super extra fast pitstops and there are no contacts whatsovere because the cars are so much laoded with aearo to provide massive downforce that any damage results in a dramatic loss of performance.

Now, that being said, we can't say that Touring Cars are doing fine at the moment in Europe.

To all those who know TC and have been following it for years, what made the BTCC so attractive in the 90s so that there was a LOT of manufacturers and cars?

And why does a series like the V8 Star die in a few years when it provides a fair competition with similar chassis, engines etc...?

Anyway, despite the problems, TC remains the most entertaining motorsport to watch in my opinion.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by MonkeyMagic

And why does a series like the V8 Star die in a few years when it provides a fair competition with similar chassis, engines etc...?

V8Star wasn't real touring cars. They were US stock cars (I.E. silhouettes, but very heavy ones ones) with bodies to make them look remotely like Jags/Lexi/VWs/Whoever else.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Originally Posted by MonkeyMagic

Anyway, despite the problems, TC remains the most entertaining motorsport to watch in my opinion.

no doubt about that
still for me tha main problem in DTM, are "teams orders" I wonder if one day we will see a fair battle between the AMGs and Audis without the foolish orders, just like in the Aussie V8, everyone for himself, despite the fact taht only Ford and GM are there

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

no doubt about that
still for me tha main problem in DTM, are "teams orders" I wonder if one day we will see a fair battle between the AMGs and Audis without the foolish orders, just like in the Aussie V8, everyone for himself, despite the fact taht only Ford and GM are there

Nope.

The Aussies are unique in a way. The manufacturers seem to have learned there when to stand back and let the racing take fold.

The fact it is Ford or Holden camp, Blue or Red is very football mentality - and though victory is certainly preferred, there's limited 'marketing' damage to either manufacturer by not winning a championship over there because their fans will still be there. As long as they still have teams at the fore obviously - if all the Falcon's were at the back there'd be a problem, hence the Project Blueprint piece a few years ago - ensures equality and close racing.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

no doubt about that
still for me tha main problem in DTM, are "teams orders" I wonder if one day we will see a fair battle between the AMGs and Audis without the foolish orders, just like in the Aussie V8, everyone for himself, despite the fact taht only Ford and GM are there

V8Supercars is in so far very different from DTM that the cars are not exclusively built by Holden or Ford factory teams, but also by a number of other teams. So the teams are much more independent from their respective factories than in DTM. I hope DTM will allow for that as well when they switch to the "Tourenwagen of Tomorrow" in 2009. Let the teams buy their standart chassis from the DTM/ITR, and do the rest on their own, or pay someone to do it for them.

[Fechna]

I don´t think, Flash opinion got more to me after his new comment, but at first:

I really think this column thing was great, and that he even took part in the comments on it is just stunning! Thank you very much Flash and JMeissner!

Everything is maybe said now just two last things from my point of view:

1. That touringcar racing isn´t the same as ten years ago- of course.

But who is really thinking that it´s because of the S2000 rules?

Be honest, no matter you like or dislike the cars.


2. GT cars will always be faster then real touringcars. That´s no shame! If you want to make a mid-sized familiy car to run faster than a Porsche you have to fake. I don´t want that. And it really doesn´t matter, if old fat man are driving drive faster cars then the TC elite in the WC. And Monza proved, that big tracks can be good facilitys for S2000.

[Ola]

Originally Posted by MonkeyMagic

And why does a series like the V8 Star die in a few years when it provides a fair competition with similar chassis, engines etc...?

Because DTM was around.

[FIRE]

And bad management.

[racer69]

Was a pity he didn't air his thoughts on the Superstars touring car series based out of Italy.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Originally Posted by racer69

the Superstars touring car series based out of Italy.

a very poor series with a small grid and little action on track (MotorsTV is broadcasting it)

[Jimmy Magnusson]

It can be entertaining at times. I feel that they do have potential, if the grids were increased (20-25 cars would be good) and an additional race was added for each weekend (1 instead of 2).

[werner]

@ facilities in Britain. I think in the Supertouringdays the facilities were probably about the same as they are nowadays, since they drove on the same tracks. The BTCC could choose only to drive on international circuits, the calendar could then look like 3x Brands, 2x Silverstone, 2x Donnington, 1x Rockingham, 1x Mondello, 1x a circuit in Europe (Le Mans, Zolder, Zandvoort, Spa?) But the organiser has chosen to race on more different tracks in the UK, wich is more diverse, and cheaper for the teams. There are things to say for both options, but as a follower on the internet and buyer of the DVD at the end of the season i think it's alright. If only they would race on the Silverstone international track, because the national track is a bit pour, with only 3 corners.
Raising spectatornumbers would be easy BTW. Just drop ticketprices radically, 50 euro's is crazy, I wouldn't pay that for national racing. Prices I payed for spectating races recently: FIA GT in Zolder: e10,- FIA WTCC in Zandvoort e20-25 (I think), DTM @ Zandvoort last year e15, 24h Spa 2 years ago, e30, several national rally's free-e10

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

a very poor series with a small grid and little action on track (MotorsTV is broadcasting it)

We get coverage of it down here too. I've found the racing, and concept of the series in general, quite good. Hopefully the fields improve and the series grows. Multi-manufacturer, big engined touring cars, the way it should be

[gran_champ]

I find the BTCC cars to be uninteresting, kinda like here in america there is NASCAR. I find them to be the oppossite of exciting, even though it is close racing. I dunno, maybe make it more exciting some how iwth the cars and the tracks and you may have something.
DTM is great, it's problem is the lack of manufacturers. BMW probably doesn't want to get involved because they have so many other things to do so they aren't able to run in such an expensive series. Maybe multi class racing would help the DTM? We need cars like the BMW 135i and it's competitors, something relatively cheaper than, say an A4. Something the everyman actually has money to go out and buy and brag to his buddies that he has a car that the manufacturer races in the national championship.
The WTCC is just way in over it's head, I'd rather have DTM be the world touring championship in the stead of this shameless series. The STCC is ok, it just needs more money (who doesn't) to throw some spice in it.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by gran_champ

I find the BTCC cars to be uninteresting, kinda like here in america there is NASCAR. I find them to be the oppossite of exciting, even though it is close racing. I dunno, maybe make it more exciting some how iwth the cars and the tracks and you may have something.

Brief reminder. WTCC cars = STCC cars = Almost all BTCC cars.

I don't think the cars are devioid of anything, any car with an engine over two litres will be in a seperate class for track licencing which may mean lower fields.

I don't see why anyone wants touring cars to have any larger engine capacity - for the umpteenth time, touring cars are supposed to be based on normal family cars like the Astra, Civic, SEAT Leon and so-on. Not excessively large executive-car-cum-tanks like the RS4, S-Type and 5-Series. DTM and Superstars, that's you.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Originally Posted by werner

The BTCC could choose only to drive on international circuits, the calendar could then look like 3x Brands, 2x Silverstone, 2x Donnington, 1x Rockingham, 1x Mondello, 1x a circuit in Europe (Le Mans, Zolder, Zandvoort, Spa?) But the organiser has chosen to race on more different tracks in the UK, wich is more diverse, and cheaper for the teams.

Croft, Thruxton, Oulton Park and Sneterton are great too, and who care about the facilities, the BTCC isnt F1

[Ellmau]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

Croft, Thruxton, Oulton Park and Sneterton are great too, and who care about the facilities, the BTCC isnt F1

Exactly, the smaller tracks often provide the best racing, and that's most important...

[racer69]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

I don't see why anyone wants touring cars to have any larger engine capacity - for the umpteenth time, touring cars are supposed to be based on normal family cars like the Astra, Civic, SEAT Leon and so-on. Not excessively large executive-car-cum-tanks like the RS4, S-Type and 5-Series. DTM and Superstars, that's you.

Why are RS4 Audi's BMW 5 series' not supposed to be Touring Cars. They have 4 seats (which according to the FIA is enough to classify you as a touring car). They certainly aren't GT cars.....

Until the RAC decided to make touring cars in Britain a one-class small capacity engine affair, touring car racing was all about big cars and little cars of differing makes & capacities, racing together.

The size of an engine is no way should dictate whether something is a touring car or not (it may dictate whether it fits into the rules of a certain touring car formula though)

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Originally Posted by racer69

Why are RS4 Audi's BMW 5 series' not supposed to be Touring Cars. They have 4 seats (which according to the FIA is enough to classify you as a touring car). They certainly aren't GT cars.....

1st you may found these cars in the Italian SuperStars, as for the FIA, both RS4 and 5 series, cant be accepted as S2000 cars, simply because they have more than 2 litres