LM24 Future Le Mans entries... - Page 3

Pilgrimage · 11 Aug 2009, 11:44 (Ref:2519493)

Quote:

Originally Posted by prototype

That would be interesting, and give more coverage to the GT2 race.

Corvette's commitment to GT2 is also encouraging.

GTfour · 11 Aug 2009, 22:13 (Ref:2519837)

Imagin a 25 car strong GT2 field with the RSR's, 430's(458's?), M3's, C6R GT2's, XKR's, Spyker('s) and Vantages...now that would be fantastic !

The Badger · 12 Aug 2009, 04:40 (Ref:2519962)

Wouldnt it just !!!

isynge · 12 Aug 2009, 13:03 (Ref:2520227)

From the Financial Times last week there is the intriguing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FT, 6 August

Toyota plans to build more stylish, fun-to-drive cars as part a drive to reinvigorate itself through a sharper focus on customers.

Announcing plans on Wednesday to re-enter the sports car market, Akio Toyoda, the Japanese carmaker’s newly-appointed president,said that Toyota aspired “to a higher cause than just building cars and making money”.

Obviously there are several leaps between this and a Le Mans entry, but a new racing campaign might well support the launch of a new 'more interesting' line of cars and revitalise a brand that's now summed up by the Prius and an array of fairly bland if hugely competent family cars.

GTfour · 12 Aug 2009, 14:17 (Ref:2520257)

I say let them come. Toyota deffinetly has unfinished bussiness at Le Mans and as a Toyota afficionado, I'd cheer them on !

The Badger · 12 Aug 2009, 16:15 (Ref:2520313)

Yeah ..... It must be one hell of a headache for them that the only Japanese car manufacturer to ever win the biggy is Mazda !!!

If they had stayed for their intended 3rd year with the TS-020 , im sure they would have taken the win .

HORNDAWG · 12 Aug 2009, 18:54 (Ref:2520378)

Cytosport Musclemilk Spyder.

L.P.

Gingers4Justice · 12 Aug 2009, 19:06 (Ref:2520384)

You could chuck all the Yen in Japan at a Toyota sportscar project and still not win - the Japanese, and in particular Toyota, are cursed at Le Mans. It's not their fault at all. Lady luck is determined for them not to win it.

isynge · 12 Aug 2009, 22:25 (Ref:2520486)

There was a fantastic article on the then Atlas F1 site about "Toyota never won Le Mans" when they went F1wards, and I cited it to a McLaren guy about 5 years back when he said he was worried about Toyota, which I think sums up a lot of the way Toyota sometimes goes racing.

I'm going to disagree about luck being against Japan - 1991 and 2005 for me scream from the rooftops that luck can really smile on them.

Possibly one for another topic, but its interesting to look at the Japanese onslaught (leaving Mazda aside). In the late days of unlimited Group C they were up against Jaguar and, more significantly, Mercedes right at the top of their game - winning then was going to be hard. You had the 3.5 daliance, when they might have done it, but Peugeot were utterly focused and in any case these are probably unrepresentative races. Then we have the late 1990s when I'd argue lack of race preparation and an underestimation of what BMW could do cost them in 1999, and since then we've not really had all that much from the big Japanese manufacturers.

All this said can anyone here honestly put their hand up and deny that (a) Toyota have over the years added richness to Le Mans and (b) would be enormously welcome back?

Me - I'd dance in the street if Mr Toyoda announced he was coming back.

The Badger · 13 Aug 2009, 03:52 (Ref:2520575)

Quote:

Originally Posted by isynge

Me - I'd dance in the street if Mr Toyoda announced he was coming back.

You gotta make a movie of that then !!!

Me too , I disagree with G4J . Toyota had bad luck , but not all their doing .

Thomas Bsher screwed up the Katayama car & which was also brought in because of a suspected suspension flaw , because of the Boutsen crash .

Which turned out to be a bulldozer Team Estoril Porsche ..... Team Estoril screwed up the Boutsen car .....

I honestly think that if they had stayed their intended term ..... they would have won .

Toyota looked bombproof ..... and they were . But you cant plan for other peoples troubles either .

That car would have won the following year , in my opinion .

@ Isynge ..... Nissan had 7 cars there in 1990 .

2 x NPTI
2 x NME
1 x Nissan Japan
1 x Courage
1 x Team Le Mans ..... and they still couldnt do it !!!

Nordic · 14 Aug 2009, 06:45 (Ref:2521166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTfour

I say let them come. Toyota deffinetly has unfinished bussiness at Le Mans and as a Toyota afficionado, I'd cheer them on !

even if its a hybrid or oil burner?

**Aysedasi** · 14 Aug 2009, 09:59 (Ref:2521272)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AX lover

BMW M3 GT2?

Lord, please no.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrimage

All sound promising... but I wouldn't bet much on any of them apart from the Vette IMO:

M3 - the ACO doesn't seem to like M3's...

Well, we can at least give them some credit for that!

The Badger · 14 Aug 2009, 17:12 (Ref:2521470)

WHAT ..... I would have love to see that BMW GT2 at Le Mans .

**Aysedasi** · 14 Aug 2009, 21:49 (Ref:2521602)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

WHAT ..... I would have love to see that BMW GT2 at Le Mans .

Yep, parked outside the local supermarche having a trolley-full loaded into the boot.......

The Badger · 14 Aug 2009, 23:06 (Ref:2521627)

LOL ..... yaknow something . As much as I would like to see a full proto grid like in the Group C days , I reckon we will never see that again .

So we might as well have some quality GT cars out there . I know the BMW looks a little touring carish ..... but you have to admit that it is a quality car ..... unlike the TVR and a few others I could mention .

Oh ..... I dont reckon you would get too much in the boot of that thing either !!!

**Aysedasi** · 15 Aug 2009, 08:34 (Ref:2521723)

Just don't go there mate - if you looked back for many years you'll find long debates over what the M3 is. Anyone here with a long enough memory knows what I think it is..... And I don't want to see it at Le Mans, so the ACO and I are, for once, in accord.

Pilgrimage · 1 Sep 2009, 15:51 (Ref:2532553)

ACO reveals 2010 Le Mans rules, diesels get more weight, less air

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/08/23...eight-less-ai/

HORNDAWG · 1 Sep 2009, 17:34 (Ref:2532610)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

WHAT ..... I would have love to see that BMW GT2 at Le Mans .

Me also.

L.P.

GT6 · 2 Sep 2009, 09:59 (Ref:2532997)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

WHAT ..... I would have love to see that BMW GT2 at Le Mans .

I am with Ayse on this one

A BMW M3 has it's place but not at Le mans for the main event, If BMW want to enter the race they should at least build a proper car and not just use the 3 series (family shopping car) and tart it up a bit.

Gingers4Justice · 2 Sep 2009, 11:07 (Ref:2533028)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Just don't go there mate - if you looked back for many years you'll find long debates over what the M3 is. Anyone here with a long enough memory knows what I think it is..... And I don't want to see it at Le Mans, so the ACO and I are, for once, in accord.

What about Group 5....surely we can make the M3 an exception and let it race?

Graham Goodwin · 2 Sep 2009, 11:16 (Ref:2533033)

Don't Agree - If they can make an M3 fully GT2 compliant then it should race.

If I had the dough for a road car of that ilk then the M3 would be on the potential shopping list alongside a 997 and the Vantage - They are competitors on the road and they should compete on track

Gingers4Justice · 2 Sep 2009, 12:39 (Ref:2533105)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Don't Agree - If they can make an M3 fully GT2 compliant then it should race.

If I had the dough for a road car of that ilk then the M3 would be on the potential shopping list alongside a 997 and the Vantage - They are competitors on the road and they should compete on track

My mate's dad has an M3 estate, and he takes his dog everywhere in it. Any car which is directly related to that is not a sportscar "with a strong sporting ethos".

But, anyway, the exception should always be made with the M3.

Graham Goodwin · 2 Sep 2009, 12:59 (Ref:2533121)

So a BMW M5, Audi RS6 or AMG Mercedes doesn't have a "strong sporting ethos"?

Just because you have kids and a dog to accommodate doesn't mean you don't want a sportscar.

To say that because a range includes an estate negates a car's claim to be a sportscar - or more critically in this instance a GT car - is nonsense.

Was the BMW Z3M any less of a sportscar because it had a hatchback? How about the Skyline - several versions of that came as a four door saloon?

Nordic · 2 Sep 2009, 15:18 (Ref:2533196)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Don't Agree - If they can make an M3 fully GT2 compliant then it should race.

So we could look forward to a GT2 mini cooper, GT2 RS Ford Mondeo then.

We all know that the ACO have backbones of straw when pressure is applied from a major company and much money is promised. equalistion (spl?)formulas are created to keep everyone happy.

Ford, Hello is that the ACO?
ACO, Yes
Ford, Can we race our RS Mondeo at Le mans
ACO, No
Ford, suppose you jiggly the rules a bit and we pay for a new pit stand.
ACO, Maybe, let us think about it.
Ford, by the way can it be a hybrid?
ACO, Why did you not say so, of coarse you can race it, we will create a new class, Touring or specials extra rules

Aysedasi is right, lets not have it at Le mans, the FIA should change the touring car rules to allow the M3, S4, AMG C class battle it out where thier spritual home is.

Touring cars hayday was when the M3 or CSL battled it out against RS capri's', V8 Holdens and TWR Jags, much better than the 2 litre crash fests served up now.

Graham Goodwin · 2 Sep 2009, 15:31 (Ref:2533204)

I understand why the question is being asked but there is always going to be a point where the definition of what each of us regard as a GT car is blurred

Should it only be permitted to be be rear wheel drive? If so why?

Should it be rear, mid or front engined? Or is any format permissible?

Should it be a pure two seater, a 2 plus 2, or even a pure 4 seater

I still maintain that the M3 is a Grand Touring car - in the manner long accepted in endurance sportscar racing and with of historical precedent at Le Mans and elsewhere too. RS Capris and BMW CSLs amongst them!

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