Now it's your turn....... - Marshals criticised in Radio Phone In

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

Tenuous link to this thread subject, but there is a lovely letter in this week's autosport from a driver which is totally supportive of the marshals (and, although it refers to an "orange-clad figure", I'm sure that doesn't exclude the BOBs).

So you can't tar everyone with the same brush!

Call me old-fashioned - but when I started marshalling in '92, there were 'big' issues of namecalling, intercircuit rivalries etc - which as a newbie, mostly went over my head but meant I sometimes got treated like I had leprosy. It took a long time for me to find out what 'BoB' stood for - and to see it here, really annoys me, probably as much as the driver who slated marshalling standards as the subject of this thread.

A bit of fun is one thing - call me a canary when I'm in my Rockingham Safety Team overalls (bright yellow and green for those who don't know), and I'll laugh with you. If I was in black overalls (I never got round to getting a pair, but many of my buddies do) and someone called me a BOB, I'd want to fight.

[Tracey]

Try walking round in green - you look like a giant bogie! I used to wear black, got called a BOB, and would joke 'Not fair! My parents were married! Not necessarily to each other... ;-) ' Broke the ice and went a little way to breaking the stereotype.

Back on subject - I try to do all a I can to prevent a driver incurring greater damage and therefore cost to his/her car etc. For example, taking a crash helmet off a very angry driver before it flew out of his hand, for which he was most grateful as it snapped him back to his senses and saved him having to get a replacement helmet!

[Woolley]

Interesting comment, deadsquirrel. As I remember the story the BOB moniker was actually coined by one of the Silverstone marshals in the first place, and I've certainly heard several use it about themselves. I've always seen it as light hearted and would hate to think anyone took offence at it if I used it - I shall certainly avoid it in future in case. I know it's wandering off topic, but I'd be interested to know if many people are bothered about it.

Back on topic-ish. I see In 20/10 edition of Autosport Nigel Roebuck repeated Max Moseley's tripe about 'The worst thing being a well-meaning amateur diving in and doing more damage' with reference to the time it took for assistance to reach Ralf Schumacher, in this case as part of an article concerning a similar delay in getting to Karthikeyan in China. I'd love to point out to Max personally that most 'well-meaning amateurs' in this country are fully trained to deal with that situation properly and are more than capable of handling a driver with serious injuries or a car which is on fire, and even showing the correct flag signals if only the FIA would let us.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Interesting comment, deadsquirrel. As I remember the story the BOB moniker was actually coined by one of the Silverstone marshals in the first place, and I've certainly heard several use it about themselves. I've always seen it as light hearted and would hate to think anyone took offence at it if I used it - I shall certainly avoid it in future in case. I know it's wandering off topic, but I'd be interested to know if many people are bothered about it.

If it is lighthearted and self-aimed, I retract my comment. I'll start a thread...

[EvilPumpkin]

Well meaning amateurs. Ok. As opposed to the highly trained professionals that F1 pay out all that money to employ.............

Not only are they at the top of their game, they're also invisible!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Snapper Baz

The simple answer would be to find out who he is and then all marshals refuse to man their posts when he's racing in whatever championship he's out in-problem solved!

The general tone of this thread suggests that very few marshals would be so childish as to consider penalising maybe a couple of dozen drivers just because one person has voiced a criticism of marshals.

Speaking personally, as a marshal or in any other activity I may be involved, I 'm not above criticism. If the criticism is unfounded it reflects badly on the person making it, not on me; if there is some foundation for the criticism then I'll act on it.

[E. Becclestone]

Some interesting comments here folks. Maybe we should look to run a similar feature in the future?

Secondly, as a "relative" outsider to marshaling (ex racer myself), it may have been proposed somewhere by somebody before, but:
Perhaps if part of the race licence at any/ all levels was to include a compulsory day marshaling to gain the licence, plus a "refresher" once a year as part of the licence retaining process could be in order. I for one would have no objections (if I was still racing) to this. Maybe somebody has suggested this before, I'm not sure......? Surely this would do nothing but good to improve drivers' knowledge, and also assist take a little strain off the shortage of marshals, plus assist to improve relationships betwen racers & marshals which (imho) are at a decent level already, but there's always room for improvement in everything.........or should I just simply shut up?

[Tuscan 6]

Educating drivers is always a good thing. I did a day's marshalling to get my National A. Having said that, because as a novice marshal there was not an awful lot I could do, I'm not sure I would learn a great deal more by doing another day each year?

Educating drivers however is not going to stop comments like those debated on this thread. By all accounts they were voiced by someone who isn't a driver - not for some time at least.

Anyway, as long as you guys still love us (i.e. the people who do actually race Tuscans at present), then frankly I couldn't care less what this person says.

I look forward to meeting more of you next season, on a strictly post race basis that is. Car + tyre wall is so last year

[KayBee]

Hey Tuscan 6 I remember the Tuscan beach buggy, after your visit to the tyre wall at Old Hall, but I can't remember which meeting it was at - please could you remind me.

Oh! and well done for getting it so that you managed to complete your race.

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by E. Becclestone

Some interesting comments here folks. Maybe we should look to run a similar feature in the future?

Secondly, as a "relative" outsider to marshaling (ex racer myself), it may have been proposed somewhere by somebody before, but:
Perhaps if part of the race licence at any/ all levels was to include a compulsory day marshaling to gain the licence, plus a "refresher" once a year as part of the licence retaining process could be in order. I for one would have no objections (if I was still racing) to this. Maybe somebody has suggested this before, I'm not sure......? Surely this would do nothing but good to improve drivers' knowledge, and also assist take a little strain off the shortage of marshals, plus assist to improve relationships betwen racers & marshals which (imho) are at a decent level already, but there's always room for improvement in everything.........or should I just simply shut up?

I think you should look at a similar feature some time.

I've always thought that drivers should have at least one day a year marshalling (in fact some series have it in their regs - Kumho BMW for a start). The Blue Book goes some way to encourage drivers to marshal in that it states that for a novice to get an upgrade they can do a day's marshalling.

Apart from assisting in the improvement in relationships, drivers and marshals can learn a lot from each other.

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

...drivers and marshals can learn a lot from each other.

Just as we did last weekend at Anglesey when we got the chace to drive some FF1600, such an eye opening experience getting in the cockpit yourself.

Any news on the podcast? And do we have to use iTunes to download it (not keen on iTunes tbh) or is there a URL we can use in an aggregator of our choice?

[johnw]

Hi Sheila
Sadly the marshalling requirement was removed from the Kumho BMW regs this year, but the Miltek BM's have it in theirs. Also the Caterhams I believe.

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by johnw

Hi Sheila
Sadly the marshalling requirement was removed from the Kumho BMW regs this year, but the Miltek BM's have it in theirs. Also the Caterhams I believe.

Have they still got the regulation for waving at the marshals on the slowing down lap?

[Robin_D]

I know that almost every Caterham waves or beeps or does both.

[Hepatic]

A-Ha! Found the URL for the podcast aggregators. If anyone uses other programs to keep up to date with podcasts (such as ipodder) you can add the following RSS feed to it > http://www.t-shops.co.uk/poll/hidden...sting/test.xml and that will keep you up to date with the latest shows...

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by Robin_D

I know that almost every Caterham waves or beeps or does both.

So do trucks!

[SpawnyWhippet]

While I appreciate very much the sterling efforts of the largely un-rewarded marshalls, I once had to park a single seater on the side of the circuit due to a battery failure in qualifying. While it was pushed to the edge of the circuit, it was so badly damaged it was not raceable that afternoon (marshalls attempted to lift the car using the wings and middle of the wishbones, which just bent). It cost me almost 1000 pounds for replacement wings and wishbones. I have done some volunteer marshalling whilst being a driver and have nothing but respect for you guys who stand out in the rain all day, but you need to see the drivers point of view too, especially when a driver is all fired up after a huge accident, its very difficult to control your temper when you think someone almost killed you.
It doesn't then help when CoC's talk to you like you're a naughty schoolboy when giving a drivers briefing, no other country I have raced in treated the drivers like this.

[EvilPumpkin]

I have been told that the podcast for this particular show is not going to be put on the internet due to potential legal issues!!!

Andy, my sympathies. However, I would like to ask a question and it is not a criticism, I'm just wondering - did any of the marshals ask you how they should push the car and if not, did you try to tell them?

We don't get a large variety of classes in Ireland so whenever I'm in the UK, I do my best to familiarise myself with the cars that are out and how to deal with them. 99 times out of a 100 that will involve actually asking the driver where it's safe to push.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Andydickens

While it was pushed to the edge of the circuit, it was so badly damaged it was not raceable that afternoon (marshalls attempted to lift the car using the wings and middle of the wishbones, which just bent). It cost me almost 1000 pounds for replacement wings and wishbones.

This is a training issue - but one that marshals should all learn early in their careers.

As a driver, you must appreciate that whilst not damaging a car anymore than it already is is a concern for marshals, getting the car out of the way asap is a higher priority; but that does NOT condone wanton damage.

Any new marshals I work with and have to deal with an incident, I always ensure that we do more damage to a car. That means not lifting/pushing wings, lifting at the mounting points of wishbones etc.

As to the legal issues of the podcast of the phone-in; that stinks - I'd like to hear it.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

I always ensure that we do more damage to a car.

Hopefully, you've just missed 'not' out there?

[johnw]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Hopefully, you've just missed 'not' out there?

Or perhaps "no"

[Stephen Green]

Made me chuckle at least

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Hopefully, you've just missed 'not' out there?

You've not seen my marshal buddy 'Big Arthur' have you?

Indeed I missed out the 'not' - just to make it clear!

[SpawnyWhippet]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Andy, my sympathies. However, I would like to ask a question and it is not a criticism, I'm just wondering - did any of the marshals ask you how they should push the car and if not, did you try to tell them?

Unfortunately I didn't have chance to tell the marshalls, as they responded very quickly. I did not have enough momemtum to cross the grass strip to the tyre wall, then my car was beached on a bump. As I started to get out to help, the marshalls told me to get back in and steer. This is when the damage occurred, and it happened in a split second. Other than that, I have been very pleased with my dealings with marshalls. Keep up the great work, the racing couldn't happen without you guys!