Custom ALMS Valve Covers (thread closed!)

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Ethics be damned...

Self-centered greed is not a desirable attribute of ethics. If the IMSA displays your attitude then they are broadcasting an attitude of self-centered greed.

Charity, tolerance are attitudes of ethics that are positive; unless the IMSA wants to prove that their for the fans line is bull-shi-, they had better be capable of it.

[hemicuda]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

I won't argue with you on the counts of the Corvette pics (and for the record, no lawyers were involved...) or the DSC thing, and I do feel bad for having done those. But to claim I'm bragging about all of this is just crazy. I was simply sharing a cool idea I had with all of you who I figured would find it to be a cool and thoughtful idea. I honestly don't think me making 1 ALMS related valve cover will have much effect the professional photographers' livelihoods. And I've already stated several times that I've requested permission to use any logos that might be involved and that I am actually photographing the weekend for a website.

Trust me, GM lawyers were contacted and your personal information was sent. DSC also had your personal information. It wasn't that hard to find. As for the valve covers or whatever you are doing, and how thoughtful you may think it is. I am sure your dad will find it infinitely more personal if you use your own images, you can brag all you want to him that they are your images. If you wanted to use someone elses images, all you had to do was ASK. I know, its a strange concept but you will find that 99% of the time when someone does the decent respectful thing, decency is repaid. You don't walk into a store and grab what you want without paying for it, why would you expect anything different anywhere else. You've burned bridges. BTW, if you contact the ALMS asking for use of their logo on anything, I can tell you flat out right now, it will cost you cold hard cash.

[fanta4]

Lol, Huge and Tom never disappoint. Thanks for the laughs guys. I kinda miss you guys sometimes. You gonna cry to the mods over here too?

[hemicuda]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Self-centered greed is not a desirable attribute of ethics. If the IMSA displays your attitude then they are broadcasting an attitude of self-centered greed.

Charity, tolerance are attitudes of ethics that are positive; unless the IMSA wants to prove that their for the fans line is bull-shi-, they had better be capable of it.

Bob since you're so big on tolerance and charity and all its attributes, I really could use a nice 600mm Canon lens, something in an f4.0 would be ideal. What do you say, I could take some really nice images and be charitable with everyone and give them out for free. I'll send you my mailing address and you can just have B&H ship it to my house. We need more charitable guys like you in this world.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Self-centered greed is not a desirable attribute of ethics. If the IMSA displays your attitude then they are broadcasting an attitude of self-centered greed.

Charity, tolerance are attitudes of ethics that are positive; unless the IMSA wants to prove that their for the fans line is bull-shi-, they had better be capable of it.

Bob, you're a smart man, but this has absolutely nothing, nothing to do with greed. Its about ethics, of doing things the right or wrong way.

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by hemicuda

Trust me, GM lawyers were contacted and your personal information was sent. DSC also had your personal information. It wasn't that hard to find. As for the valve covers or whatever you are doing, and how thoughtful you may think it is. I am sure your dad will find it infinitely more personal if you use your own images, you can brag all you want to him that they are your images. If you wanted to use someone elses images, all you had to do was ASK. I know, its a strange concept but you will find that 99% of the time when someone does the decent respectful thing, decency is repaid. You don't walk into a store and grab what you want without paying for it, why would you expect anything different anywhere else. You've burned bridges. BTW, if you contact the ALMS asking for use of their logo on anything, I can tell you flat out right now, it will cost you cold hard cash.

How many times do I have to repeat that I AM USING MY OWN IMAGES ON THIS and NOT stealing someone else's... I've stated this several times now yet I continue to get the don't steal other people's images lecture...

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

Jesus Christ guys...

I'm not stealing someone else's photo for this. I'm using my own photos, of which I'm spending my own money to attend the race, and I'm simply using my photos to create a gift for my dad. Perhaps the images I take might technically be the intellectual property of the ALMS, but people use photos they take at races for all kinds of things and no one ever gets crap for it. And I am actually covering the race, I haven't just somehow tricked them into giving me credentials.

Technically, those rules and laws can be such a bummer when they apply to what you do in the real world...

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

I won't argue with you on the counts of the Corvette pics (and for the record, no lawyers were involved...) or the DSC thing, and I do feel bad for having done those. But to claim I'm bragging about all of this is just crazy. I was simply sharing a cool idea I had with all of you who I figured would find it to be a cool and thoughtful idea. I honestly don't think me making 1 ALMS related valve cover will have much effect the professional photographers' livelihoods. And I've already stated several times that I've requested permission to use any logos that might be involved and that I am actually photographing the weekend for a website.

That you are being credentialed makes no difference to the discussion of right and wrong and past history.

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

Don't try to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own photographs...

It’s not my place to say either way. But I am pointing out to you that maybe you don’t know everything that is involved with your credentialed assignment for the Laguna race. That fact is, again, whether your are credentialed or buying a ticket, there are restrictions on what your can do with the images you personally take. A fan buying a ticket is not allowed to resell their images. A professional photographer is not allowed to resell their images beyond their terms of employment unless there is a licensing agreement in place between the photographer and the series.

If you are incapable of understanding this, maybe you’re not ready to be credentialed?

Bottom line. People haven’t been happy with what you’ve done over the years. No one here is telling you what to do. What people are telling you is whats right and wrong and what is probably expected of you by you accepting your credential.

Its up to you to let your conscious be your guide, but you’ve been given (only) some of the guidelines that credentialed photographers are required to live by. Its really not a difficult choice.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by fanta4

Lol, Huge and Tom never disappoint. Thanks for the laughs guys. I kinda miss you guys sometimes. You gonna cry to the mods over here too?

Why?

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

It’s not my place to say either way. But I am pointing out to you that maybe you don’t know everything that is involved with your credentialed assignment for the Laguna race. That fact is, again, whether your are credentialed or buying a ticket, there are restrictions on what your can do with the images you personally take. A fan buying a ticket is not allowed to resell their images. A professional photographer is not allowed to resell their images beyond their terms of employment unless there is a licensing agreement in place between the photographer and the series.

In what part of any of this have I claimed I'll be selling anything??

[Hugewally]

Maybe you missed the part about out pointing out a part of what credentialed photographers are allowed to do. Re-selling is only part of it.

[SebringMG]

Lighten up guys and take it to PM please

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Of course you probably already know that photos taken at ALMS events, whether credentialed or fan also have limitations on what you can legally do with them.

I like your idea WMU

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by hemicuda

Yeah that is of course the general attitude, but see there is a small problem with your logic. As I mentioned before, WMUCARGUY has shown a complete lack of respect for intellectual property. He has posted hi-res images, especially Corvette Racing images, that didn't belong to him to start with and has a cavalier attitude about just taking what he needs without first asking permission. He has taken content from places like DSC without permission. He has a long track record that exibits a complete lack of respect for such things so when he chooses to post things like this he is going to be called on them. The reason that he is called on them is because in its purest form it is nothing more than stealing. Perhaps you don't see it as such but let me put it to you in this way. You invest maybe 30 or 40 grand in photo gear, you spend thousands of dollars to go cover events, that includes car rental, crappy motels and any of the other things in between, you bust your ass for days on end working at these events to have someone just take what you invested large sums of money to do and in many instances puts food on the table, so that someone can just come along and take without regard? It's perfectly ok to screw with someone elses livelyhood, as long as it doesn't affect you. Those copyright laws exist for a reason, so next time, perhaps if you are so generous with other peoples money, how about you opening up your pockets with some freebies. best thing that WMUCARGUY can do is keep his mouth shut, take whatever images he needs and just stop bragging about it.

Than sue him

[Aysedasi]

Gordon Bennett guys........ Enough is enough, surely...... How many more times do you all need to say the same thing. Lectures over.