Spectator interest

[The Badger]

They used a colored velcro strip back in the mid Group C days that was effective , but im not sure how that would work at night . As far as I remember , the velcro was changed at the pit stop and failure to do so was a penalty .

They could always install small button lights on the door pillar in 3 differant colors , one for each driver , or a luminous name printed on a plastic card that can be inserted on the inside of the window .

It would also be a nice move to adopt the 3 position light system that ALMS use .

Luminious numbers should be made a must .

[Tim the Grey]

As said earlier, ANYTHING to make the paying punters life easier would be appreciated. While at Donington i had a ROUGH idea of who was leading, it was nigh on impossible to work out what was happening in the classes...

[Nick49]

Hello

Its quite a sobering thought that the forum members on here are coming up with quite blindingly obvious suggestions to improve the lot of the spectator and this is from people who can be regarded as enthusiasts. How can the "general public" be expected to cope with a multi class six hour endurance race and be expected to turn up again? I still think the ACO, who run the LMS, should take a lead and demand the circuits, teams and their own staff to sharpen up their act to make the series a far more enjoyable experience all round.

Or we'll send Bernie in .

Nick

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Are there many methods the teams use to show which driver is in the car? Not everyone can recognise helmets, and if light is beginning to fade then you can't see them anyway.

for the 24 hour and ALMS and LMS races there is a AMB driver identification transponder signal that goes to timing and scoring. It is part of the plug in for the helmet radio.

Page 3
http://www.imsaracing.net/2006/compe.../appendixa.pdf

[AU N EGL]

and the AMB Transponders can be read at http://www.mylaps.com/

[old man]

Originally Posted by Nick49

Hello

Its quite a sobering thought that the forum members on here are coming up with quite blindingly obvious suggestions to improve the lot of the spectator and this is from people who can be regarded as enthusiasts. How can the "general public" be expected to cope with a multi class six hour endurance race and be expected to turn up again? I still think the ACO, who run the LMS, should take a lead and demand the circuits, teams and their own staff to sharpen up their act to make the series a far more enjoyable experience all round.

Or we'll send Bernie in .

Nick

The ACO so far as I know sub contract the running of the LMS to someone called Peters I think (Patrick Peters?), other experts here will soon tell me what is the correct name. What you say is quite true but the problem to me is that the organisers charge enough in the entry fee to cover their costs and do not appear to care how many people watch so long as the races run smoothly. If this is wrong and I have been told off before now for being unkind to certain organisers when commenting in another thread, but if this is wrong why do they not do some of the blindingly obvious as big crowds would make for cheaper circuit hire costs, lower TV fees and so on, as you suggest lets send Bernie in!!

Now if the circuit owners were to charge a sliding fee and in effect share the gate money with the organising body for the series this would concentrate their minds. The ACO itself of course draws the gate money for the 24 and so has Radio LM, score boards, hourly bulletins (I think?) and massive family entertainment to keep everyone informed/amused but that does not stretch to the LMS races and at the SPA 24 this year spectator information was a joke, they even dropped the printed hourly bulletins for the spectator, the tent was there at the back of the pits but no bulletins.

As I said before, I do wish SRO and whoever does the LMS would read this thread, hang their heads in shame and do something for the paying spectator, all the ideas are here and all the reasons for doing it.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by old man

I think that this is very good point, In most cases the driver changes something in the cockpit to inform the timimg system that he is in the car and it is obviously not beyond the wit of man to link this to a light above or beside the drivers name. Problem with that is you would not be able to read the names as they are at present as the cars go past unless you have excellent vision!!

Another idea ok for GT cars but not LMPs is to have the name on the side window with some form of illumination or even blank out the name of the driver not in the car. I suppose it is easier with an open car where you can see the helmet, all that needs is helmet pictures in the programme shown alongside each car. Basically a very good point.

Of course if we could have access to the timing screens as discussed earlier in this thread that then tells you so long as the driver remembers to change the indicator setting

When brought up after the Silverstone LMS 'into the dark' race, this forum was told the illuminated panels were not standard issue in the LMS because many of the teams, including the big guns, could not afford them.

If something that simple is beyond teams, or they simply do not care enough about spectators/TV audience/sponsors needs to identify their car in the dark, what hope is there!

Rather than relying on cicuits, why don't the ACO/teams invest in a mobile electronic tower than can be strategically placed at circuits on the LMS schedule to keep the fans informed.

How about some kind of ACO 'village' at each circuit with timing/TV screens with covered refreshment areas so fans can catch up on the news and take the weight off their feet.

The ACO must have shed loads of kit which is used once a year at Le Mans, is it too much to ask them to bring another truck along with this gear, to help spectators and sponosrs?

This is not charity, spectators are paying £20+ a ticket, bring a family along and it's an expensive do.

The fact there weren't even car clubs or displays infield at Donington's LMS round was a disgrace.

I can't think of many other sports that are so rich, charge so much, yet treat spectators so poorly.

Some people have issues with J Palmer, but he at least seems to care about the 'show' and treats paying customers with the respect they deserve.

I may be wrong, but everywhere else seems to be take, take, take.

Rant over, lol

[JAG]

Originally Posted by old man

As I said before, I do wish SRO and whoever does the LMS would read this thread, hang their heads in shame and do something for the paying spectator, all the ideas are here and all the reasons for doing it.

They'd probably give you a dismisive, smart alec, one sentence reply. Thats been the response when well thought out proposals have been put to them before.

[JAG]

This is from the Embassy interview on DSC:-

www.dailysportscar.com

'It would be nice, and as I say, it's a shame that nobody has taken up the baton in BGT and run with it. I feel that the championship really benefited from it in 2005, and it would be good to see someone pick up where we left off and give the fans what they deserve. Maybe the circuits, promoter, and teams could come to an agreement to offer race radio? After all, we've all been fans, and although we're now fortunate to be involved on the other side of the fence, we have to remember that from the fans come tomorrow's drivers, sponsors, and team owners. As for Embassy Race Radio combining with the LMS, it would be lovely to do, but would largely be dependant upon the organisers. It's a question we have yet to ask, but one we shall be asking nonetheless.'

I wonder if there could be a link up with Radio Le Mans, who I believe have enquired about radio coverage at LMS events?

The LMS website now has live streaming video of events, so radio coverage should be considered.

[Bentley03]

Jonathan France/Embassy Racing have come to mind throughout reading this thread. Race radio, promotional girls, free radios given away at the circuit, in fact all the things any race fan could reasonably expect from a team. Let's hope their (very, very welcome) arrival in the Le Mans Series leads others to follow their example.

[TheNewBob]

Sorry, I've dropped the ball here and I think I've missed something. What are Embassy running in the LMS? Besides a potential radio programme...?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Sorry, I've dropped the ball here and I think I've missed something. What are Embassy running in the LMS? Besides a potential radio programme...?

I think you'll find the news on another thread, but all we know 'officially' is that it will be a prototype.

[JAG]

RE. the DSC 'comment' on race promotion and whether we as fans should accept the way it is because sportscar racing is a 'niche' sport.

1. Niche Sport

Certainly when compared to F1 or Nascar, but then again most soccer clubs are 'niche' compared to your United's and Barcelona's. That doesn't stop the rest being important players in the market, they don't take the attitude we can't compete with the best so we'll settle for lower league football.

If race promoters and teams are happy with glorified club events, good on 'em, for me thats not good enough.

In the last 10 years I've been to British GT events were there's been one man and his dog, at other times 20,000+, not least this seasons Bank Holiday meeting a Oulton Park.

Likewise between 96-98 Silverstone's BPR/FIA GT races had big promotions, 'Silverstone TV' etc, and were rewarded with 25-30,000crowds.

Subsequent years we've seen 10k at best.

A sport that attracts multi million dollar programs from the likes of Audi and Peugeot, and can boast one of a handful of motoracing events recognised the world over, Le Mans, cannot be considered niche.

By some peoples reckoning F1 and Moto GP are niche, so why throw in the towel because sportscar racing cannot command the media attention F1 does?

2. Promotion

No ones asking for blanket TV or radio coverage, hell, no ones even asking competitors/promoters to dig deep into their own pockets.

Is it really too much to ask someone at SRO or the circuits to contact car clubs etc. offering discounted tickets and display areas for their members? At Donington this year certain owners were organising themselves into little 'display' groups, image how many more would have turned up with organised displays!

Is it too much to ask for a marquee or two placed around the infield were spectators can rest and buy refreshments. Why not push the boat out and place a few of those new fangled TV screens up!

This infield 'village' (lol) could be used for teams to distribute posters and for traders to sell memorabilia.

Finally , if teams can afford the cost (reluctantly) of updating their cars due to constant regs changes, is it too much to ask for the ALMS three light system and illuminated numbers?

Teams who push out the boat for spectators, and are not satisified with empty grandstands etc., stand out like a sore thumb.

RML, Rollcentre, Bruichladdich, Embassy, Advan Factory Courage, Eurotech with John Guest backing, they all put in that little extra effort.

Let's not forget, we are paying £20 a chuck for the privalidge of spectating in a muddy field!

[TheNewBob]

I actually think £20 a ticket is dirt cheap. You pay double that price for a premiership football game which lasts just 90 minutes (although when it comes to football I've usually fallen asleep within a tenth of that time). Heck, nearest club to me, Lincoln City, costs around £16-18 a game (I think...).

£20 gets you a full day of top quality motorsport without being confined to a seat for the duration. The support races only make it even more worthwhile. I'd be willing to part with a good £10-15 more for my ticket if it meant I'd be getting good value in return - such as the suggestions made in this thread.

An example being LMES Silverstone '05. I was there for all 3 days and my total expenditure for the weekend was under £60. That's including tickets and camping. To say the main event lasted 6 hours and included countless minutes of practice sessions, the CER guys and a full day of great national racing (including BGT and F3) on the Sunday - I think that's phenominal value for money, and I wish it were happening again in '07.

That's no excuse for circuit owners to start bumping up prices ten fold, but it's the thought that spectators want to get what they paid for - and I'd be willing to pay a bit more if it meant better facilities for us folks behind the fences and guardrails.

[AU N EGL]

Has anyone though of contacting the promotor and applying for a job as the event coordinator?

To do all the suggestions in this thread. There may not be a job posted, but what the heck ask for the job. More then 50% of any jobs are created on the spot when someone has an idea of how to do a special project and can show the owner( manager) how and why it is in the companies best interest and how they company, race promotor will make money.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

I actually think £20 a ticket is dirt cheap. You pay double that price for a premiership football game which lasts just 90 minutes (although when it comes to football I've usually fallen asleep within a tenth of that time). Heck, nearest club to me, Lincoln City, costs around £16-18 a game (I think...).

£20 gets you a full day of top quality motorsport without being confined to a seat for the duration. The support races only make it even more worthwhile. I'd be willing to part with a good £10-15 more for my ticket if it meant I'd be getting good value in return - such as the suggestions made in this thread.

An example being LMES Silverstone '05. I was there for all 3 days and my total expenditure for the weekend was under £60. That's including tickets and camping. To say the main event lasted 6 hours and included countless minutes of practice sessions, the CER guys and a full day of great national racing (including BGT and F3) on the Sunday - I think that's phenominal value for money, and I wish it were happening again in '07.

That's no excuse for circuit owners to start bumping up prices ten fold, but it's the thought that spectators want to get what they paid for - and I'd be willing to pay a bit more if it meant better facilities for us folks behind the fences and guardrails.

For £20 I expect more than the absolute basic facilities.

I don't think it's too much to ask to be kept informed of proceedings.

£20 may be cheap to you and me, but if theres Mum, Dad, and a couple of kids it's not a cheap day out.

I've took along my dad and brother-in-law to for the last 10 years. There experiences at the Silverstone and Donington LMS events have them seriously reconsidering whether they'll bother next year.

I'm hopeful things will be much improved next season, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time trying to convince them to come again.

By contrast they used to count down the days to the Silverstone Historic Ferstival, that was a real family day out, much like Goodwood is today.

It looks well when you have fantastic $1m machines out on the track, yet some basic spectator facilities and promotion are not only keeping spectators away, they are driving away those who are having bad experiences.

[TheNewBob]

Well, I suppose it's not right for circuits to take the p*ss, but I still don't think we should complain too much about ticket prices. OK a few more facilities for that money would be nice, but personally I don't think it's too much of a worry.

FIA GT at Silverstone did attempt to create a family atmosphere with an infield display, didn't they? I didn't visit it, just the paddock, but it would seem they need to do a lot more.

[old man]

Well you guys and DSC have been getting a lot said whilst I have been earning a crust and was taken Christmas shopping by management.

J France has a lot of good points on dsc and I wonder who the second driver of his LMP will be, Neill Cunningham is no slouch and France hints that he is paying a serious partner for him so we will see. My bet is that it is probalbly a Porsche and I remember Neill racing F Renault at the same time as T Erdos, that would be interesting.

JAG has some goood points in his posts I think and what is being suggested about moving equipment round is a good idea that would require a ringmaster to set it up with all the circuits, do the job that AU N EGL suggests. One volunteer please step forward!

MC talks about how the manufacturers all ran away after 99 except Audi and that was sad really, did you know that Audi were there in 98? They put a crew of engineers, mechanics, a doctor, a physio and management observers with the McLaren entered for Thos Bscher by Michael Cane under the team name "Gulf Team Davidoff" alongside Steve O'Rourkes EMI Car, the Bscher car retired during the night, Pirro and Capello drove with Bscher, again paid by Audi, the EMI car finished 4th overall beating lots of works cars on massive budgets. Audi were there just to find out how it was done by a top team, sorry, this is off thread.

Mark Howson's piece I think is inspired by this thread and at the end of an interesting comment he says:

"Or perhaps the series promoters need to accept that there is a horse and cart situation here; ie. they need to start investing in promoting the races as an incentive for manufacturers to come in and take over the promotion task."

Well of course this is what is needed, you don't get to NASCAR's $200 million prize fund without work and investment and whilst we can not aspire to anything like that the fact is that
Fans = money,
Fans = sponsorship.
Fans = TV exposure = sponsorship.
Fans = Manufacturer interest


Give tham value for money and something for the family and they will support you.

Lots of teams would follow the example of promotion at the event set by the list that JAG quotes if they could see the series promotors doing their bit and I can see this happening more with the LMS than with the FIA given the linking of TV for the 24 with TV for the LMS which we have heard about, what we want is the next step. With the LMS returning to Silverstone next year after the debacle that was Donington with those bike style pits and nothing for the spectator at all. Donington really did let us down this year so we will see how well Silverstone do but it would be a lot better if the Patrick Peter (is that correct guys?) organisation bring some equipment and ask for the circuit to do things. Given that the weather was lousy at Silverstone in 2005 how many people were there?

Radio Le Mans and John Hindhaugh should be given the task of doing a radio commentary and I am sure would let Mr France put some sponsorship into it, does Mr Hindhaugh read this? Lets get it raised on his radio show!

I am still not convinced that anyone from SRO or LMS is reading this though, can we have a French version please?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Well, I suppose it's not right for circuits to take the p*ss, but I still don't think we should complain too much about ticket prices. OK a few more facilities for that money would be nice, but personally I don't think it's too much of a worry.

FIA GT at Silverstone did attempt to create a family atmosphere with an infield display, didn't they? I didn't visit it, just the paddock, but it would seem they need to do a lot more.

Sorry. Your statement seems to go in circles. Both paragraphs are both for and against the subjects that are mentioned in them.
???
So what truly is your thought on the suject?

L.P.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by old man

Radio Le Mans and John Hindhaugh should be given the task of doing a radio commentary and I am sure would let Mr France put some sponsorship into it, does Mr Hindhaugh read this? Lets get it raised on his radio show![/FONT]

I am still not convinced that anyone from SRO or LMS is reading this though, can we have a French version please?

I can tell you that at least two attempts to get an english language web radio station for LMS have met little interest from the ACO

[Hammerdown]

That's crazy!

Radio LeMans and the ALMS coverage are unmissable. The number of times I've heard people on this forum say they watch the TV coverage with the sound turned off and liten to Hindy on the web…

I haven't got Sky, so I just listen to the ALMS radio and it's just so compelling. The web live media coverage on LMS is really poor by comparison, even though they have the benefit of streaming video (when it works!).

[JAG]

Originally Posted by old man

I am still not convinced that anyone from SRO or LMS is reading this though, can we have a French version please?

They're probably sat back drinking champaign congratulating themselves on putting together bumper grids.

Fans.....what are they?????????

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

I can tell you that at least two attempts to get an english language web radio station for LMS have met little interest from the ACO

Maybe it's time for a third attempt.

The LMS site now has live streaming video so the ACO are not averse to 'new' technology.

A link up between RLM, Embassy, Audi/Peugeot and other interested teams/sponsors maybe a goer.

I've read comments from RML and certain other teams about their dissapointment at the lack of spectators, maybe it's time to go to the ACO on mass and state what they'd like to see on the promotion side.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Sorry. Your statement seems to go in circles. Both paragraphs are both for and against the subjects that are mentioned in them.
???
So what truly is your thought on the suject?

L.P.

Sorry, I was a little bit rushed in my writing and kinda contradicted myself! In a nutshell I was actually trying to say is it's not too bad regrding the entry price, it's better value for money than an awful lot of different sports - but it could still be better and whilst comparatively small efforts are being made for spectator facilities, they could also be bigger and better.

Which is the general theme and view of this whole thread, really, anyway, so you can probably ignore it.

Next time I'll just nod and agree...

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Sorry, I was a little bit rushed in my writing and kinda contradicted myself! In a nutshell I was actually trying to say is it's not too bad regrding the entry price, it's better value for money than an awful lot of different sports - but it could still be better and whilst comparatively small efforts are being made for spectator facilities, they could also be bigger and better.

Which is the general theme and view of this whole thread, really, anyway, so you can probably ignore it.

Next time I'll just nod and agree...

I understand completely.
I think the "old man" 's last post #68 is a pretty fair summation as a whole and this one part in particular is it in a nut shell!

Well of course this is what is needed, you don't get to NASCAR's $200 million prize fund without work and investment and whilst we can not aspire to anything like that the fact is that
Fans = money,
Fans = sponsorship.
Fans = TV exposure = sponsorship.
Fans = Manufacturer interest


Give tham value for money and something for the family and they will support you.

Now for the Herculian task of getting the people who matter (control the purse strings) to take notice and absorb the information. You all (across the pond) seem to have a pretty good grip of what needs to be done. So why are you not petitioning the powers that be to make the improvements needed? The squeaky wheel gets the oil! A large and continual effort by as many people as you can muster, and some with "the ear" of certain people, would be my first thrust. Become a nuisance, a nice one, but one none the less. Organize, someone(s) needs to focus the effort where it will have the best results. Choose your targets and get the ball rolling to make the changes happen, as soon as possible.

L.P.