Lola-Audi (merged)

[Alain P]

Good news, and will make Peugeot's life an interesting one. I hope that my favorite team- creation can keep them behind. How Pescarolo will compare should be fun too, but I don't think M Short would be too happy to have read the news today. P1 and P2 looking very good!

[JAG]

Swiss Spirit won't get an R10 because they'll go to the likes of Joest and Audi UK.

[paul-collins]

I can see the political angles in play here:

1. let's assume that peugeot goes "fast enough to win." I doubt very much that anything can be said to be proven if the Lola/Audi keeps up with the Peugeot - particularly if we don't know if the Pug chassis is any good.

2. If the Audi-Lola beats the Chamberlain Lola, then Audi can claim that last year's competitions with Dyson were settled because of AER's weakness. You can bet they'll be swift to compare Swiss Spirit to Chamberlain as "equal teams."

3. If the Audi-Lola beats the Pesca/Courage/Zytek '07 cars, you can bet that the claim will be that this further proves that the Audi engine is very superior to the AER. (Remember, also, that the Zytek has proven to be, in limited head-to-head competition with Dyson, faster than the Lola B06/10)

Now, I don't think we'll really know if the engine is equivalent to the diesel based on anything we'll see this year - unless Swiss Spirit wins Le Mans. I think, honestly, that Audi would be tempted to throw away the ALMS season championship in toto to preserve any Le Mans advantage at this point.

Regardless, it's an exciting announcement, and too bad it's an exclusive engine deal. I'd love for them to open it up ultimately, and start having a true customer program.

[dj choc ice]

1 word, FANTASTIC!!!, it will be great to hear the audi FSI petrol engine noise again, and i must say im really looking forward to this one.

question is how much will they beat the competition by

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Regardless, it's an exciting announcement, and too bad it's an exclusive engine deal. I'd love for them to open it up ultimately, and start having a true customer program.

I wonder if anyone has ever asked Audi for an engine deal? And in this case, who approached who?

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by JAG

The Peugeot has bigger restrictors than the R10 due to it being a coupe and running air con.

The 2002 R8 had over 660bhp, running the same restrictors they run today.

Not sure that's correct. In 2003 the R8 has a 10% reduction, and in 2005 a further 5% - total of 14.5% reduction.

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by JAG

The Peugeot has bigger restrictors than the R10 due to it being a coupe and running air con.

The 2002 R8 had over 660bhp, running the same restrictors they run today.

Drat

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by Splendid Cat

Not sure that's correct. In 2003 the R8 has a 10% reduction, and in 2005 a further 5% - total of 14.5% reduction.

Isn't that a reduction in the restrictor size, and not the actual horsepower?

[chernaudi]

The smaller restictors equal lower top end power. But the '02 specs are what really count for the intents and purposes here. The current restictor rules are based off of 2002's specs. So the Audi R8 power figure is just about right for the new car.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by JAG

Swiss Spirit won't get an R10 because they'll go to the likes of Joest and Audi UK.

Joest is the worksteam if I'm not completely mistaken and I don't know anything about Audi UK... do they even exist (as a race team) right now? IMO they could just as well rebadge Swiss Spirit as Audi Team Swiss/France if they were to run an R10. Just look at Goh who were Audi Sport Japan Goh when they used the R8. Last year they tried to run the MC12 in SuperGT and were just Team Goh. So I guess Audi will rebadge every suitable Team that runs a "privateer" R10 as Audi Sport [insert country]...
Swiss Spirit are a capable team, so I wouldn't outrule the hypothetical popssibility of them running an R10.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I wonder if anyone has ever asked Audi for an engine deal? And in this case, who approached who?

The suggestion that Audi might be willing to make the engine available to a third party was doing the rounds some time ago (in France, at least ), but what has transpired subsequently would appear to have been kept a very closely guarded secret.

The DSC article makes it clear though, that it was Fred Stadler's suggestion that they use the Audi engine. But who asked who first is unclear. My guess, Stadler caught wind of the possibility through his connections at Audi, and asked.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Splendid Cat

Not sure that's correct. In 2003 the R8 has a 10% reduction, and in 2005 a further 5% - total of 14.5% reduction.

Yes, thats about right.

10% in 2003, then a further 5% in 2005 as the second year of LMP900 restrictions kicked in, the same year Pescaolo ran their first hybrid and were way quicker than the underpowered, overweight R8.

Full LMP1 cars have 15% bigger restrictors than a 2005 R8.

[chernaudi]

Anyword on wheter or not they'll use the R8's gearbox?

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The smaller restictors equal lower top end power. But the '02 specs are what really count for the intents and purposes here. The current restictor rules are based off of 2002's specs. So the Audi R8 power figure is just about right for the new car.

I'm guessing that a current spec FSI motor could produce more power than the 2002 variant. Remember, due to smaller restrictors Audi had to learn how to extract as much horsepower as possible between 2003 and 2005. This knowledge could be put to good use with the 2002 restrictor size.

[skycafe]

I was over at DSC first this evening and saw the story, and my third thought (first thought: is this April 1? Second thought: you would need GPS to find this part of left field again...) and third thought, jeepers, I imagine there are 50 posts on a thread over at 10 tenths by now, and my guess was about 19 posts short!

This is going to be a very interesting year!

robert

[chewymonster]

Nice, finally a top notch gasoline engine racing again in P1.

[Graham Goodwin]

Huhhh! And the Judd and AER aren't top notch!!!!

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Huhhh! And the Judd and AER aren't top notch!!!!

I am sure they are great engines but they aren't factory engines. To this day not a sinlge P1 engine has had direct injection for extra power and improved fuel efficiency like the R8 has had since 2001. The difference between factory and privateer P2 with the same chassis was evident during Sebring testing. Sure there are many differences but I am sure the engine is one of the main ones. I don't think it wouldn't be fair to say that the R8 V8 turbo is the best gasoline engine available for P1 currently. I didn't mean to say that the other engines are bad or anything like that. I meant to say that there is a factory gasoline P1 engine, only now can we begin to attempt to dissect the difference between the diesels and the gasoline engines. Of course the chassis/tires/team/drivers all matter but I think that this Swiss Spirit Audi Lola should be a good challanger.

[knighty]

Have just read the cosworth article on DSC where they converted the chevrolet IRL motor to 3.6 litres and twin turbos for a sports car engine – just like the AER and R8 motors…….Bruce Wood is quoting 617bhp and 730 Nm torque for the cosworth…….and says from “their information” the R8 has 610bhp and 700Nm with its latest size of restrictors……….so the R8 has “around” 610bhp…………

just had a read of the 2006 ACO regs for restrictor sizes on a 5.5 Diesel, Audi run two 39,9mm restrictors, and as Peugeot run a closed top car they are allowed to increase each restrictor by 0.4mm to 40.3mm……..work out the cross sectional area for each (1250mm Audi, and 1275mm for pug) and you can see that its only a 2% bigger restrictor for Peugeot………so in terms of the 660 bhp for the R10 and the 700bhp for the pug……..someone is telling porkies…….because 2% of 660 and 700 is only a difference of between 13bhp and 14bhp……..

so to conclude if the R8 has 610bhp and the R10 and peugeot have "around" 700bhp………that’s a difference of 90bhp in favour of the diesels……then theres the small matter of the diesels having 1300Nm of torque, and the R8 having 700Nm.......thats a difference of wait for it......600Nm in favour of the Diesels.........and Audi are hoping that lending out an R8 motor will prove the diesel and gasoline regs are equal – pull the other one

[gwyllion]

@knighty: I think you have your numbers wrong.

• The Audi V8 FSI will definately have way more than 610 hp and 700 Nm.
  • in 2002 (same restrictor size as currently) Audi claimed to have 625 hp and 750 Nm (see here); some say the Audi V8 FSI was close to 670 hp in 2002
  • the AER P32 T V8 produces approximately 650 hp (see here)
  • the Judd GV5S2 produced 640 hp (see here) and the GV5.5S2 will have more than 650 hp (see here)
• The Peugeot 908 will run with same restrictor size as the Audi R10 because they do not use an air conditioning system, but normal ventilation system (option 2 of rule 14.1.9 in ACO LMP1 regulation).

[knighty]

yes the numbers are a bit of a minefield - even so - the main point still stands - the gasoline and diesel regs are still well in favour of the Diesel - I just cant see how Audi are hoping to prove otherwise?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by knighty

yes the numbers are a bit of a minefield - even so - the main point still stands - the gasoline and diesel regs are still well in favour of the Diesel - I just cant see how Audi are hoping to prove otherwise?

But isn't it going to be fun seeing them try............

[Bentley03]

The main concern for this project (in 2007) would appear to be the enormous amount of work there is still to do before the car actually hits the track. They are doing all they can to debut at Monza, but, even if they achieve that goal, how long will it take to get the car properly sorted. I would suggest that it could be 2008 before we see what it's truly capable of.

But who knows, with Audi's involvement, it could be quick and reliable straight out of the box...........

[SALEEN S7R]

Personally I think it will be just that, quick and reliable straight away. The engine is a proven engine and should perform well providing everything fits into the Lola properly and im sure it will. The only doubt is the new Lola chassis, but seeing as its a evolution of the 2006 spec Lola's I see no reason why it wont be competitve right away. All that should be needed is time to find differnt setups.

[gwyllion]

The main problem will be to mount the Audi V8 FSI in the Lola chassis and fit it on the Lola gearbox (the Audi engine was designed for the Ricardo gearbox).