So who is/will be 4th?

[Teretonga]

Over the winter it looked like Nico and Williams would be the best of the rest but its all been a bit fraught.
Red Bull started off badly but Mark Webber has done some sterling work in the last few.
Trulli was promising and has really put in a few strong drives and the Toyota chassis is far better than it was last year.
Honda is now also getting its act together so who will come out of best?
If Honda focus their resources at the root problems they will do well. Brawn has the ability to lead them there and ensure it happens.
RBR has the engineering staff and the will plus the money but is the depth of resource that a manufacturer has also there. That mat be a telling point by the end of the season.
Toyota as per Honda but is Gascoyne as able to that as well as Brawn can at Honda?
Renault? They have history and Alonso on their side so maybe they can. They also have very good engineering and design staff.
It's all quite close but I think RBR may prove to be the mid season champs, Honda the late season revelation that will build throughout the year and Toyota a consistent challenger with Glock increasingly comming to form over the latter half of the year.
Williams have the brilliance and the speed but the season is beginning to remind me of 2006 all over again....

I think Webber could prove to be the one individual outside the top three teams who scores the most points, depending on RBR's reliability.
The highest point scoring team could be Toyota...

[FPV GTHO]

Honda have claimed that after Barcelona, they'll do one more major update (other than Monaco/Monza) and then divert 100% to 2009. If they follow that, together with how far back theyve started, i think we can count them out for 4th.

I think RBR still need to demonstrate they can play with the likes of Renault and Williams. At the end of last year when they had an upturn in performance, they were being flattered as their mid grid rivals had shifted focus entirely onto their 2008 cars whilst RBR kept developing with the knowledge whatever they came up with could be transfered straight to the RB4.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I think Webber could prove to be the one individual outside the top three teams who scores the most points, depending on RBR's reliability

Absolutely.

[Dutton]

Ah, ok, thank FPV. If that is their plan, then, yes, 4th is improbable.

I was thinking in terms of if they kept a reasonable stab at 2008.

[FPV GTHO]

I still think it'll be whoever keeps the most attention to their 2008 campaign, at the risk of 2009. We may end up seeing after around the midpoint of the season, the current performance gap between the front runners and the midfield progressively expand from around 1s to over 2s by seasons end.

One of the teams might not be able to resist the temptation, and keep a small development program that locks them out with 7th-8th positions.

[Wrex]

According to our poll results so far;

Toyota 20 33.33%
Williams 16 26.67%
Renault 15 25.00%
RBR - Renault 5 8.33%
Honda 4 6.67%

Hmm, not sure I can agree with results, or the rank of the votes. I think since Spain the 2 Renault powered cars have made the most advancement, with Alonso-Renault now best of the rest. If NP can pull his weight, 4th is in the bag for them.

As for Toyota, they seem to be missing something recently, while Williams young duo seems inconsistant at best. Nico can be seen racing for 6th one race, 16th the next.

I suspect RBR will upstage both Toyota & Williams with Webber taking 8th in the championship behind Alonso. Now that DC can finish races without crashing, RBR are looking good for 5th.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Wrex

As for Toyota, they seem to be missing something recently, while Williams young duo seems inconsistant at best. Nico can be seen racing for 6th one race, 16th the next.

.

Ahhh Wrex! The Master Of Understatement! Toyota has been "missing something" pretty much since they joined the show: race wins, podiums, fastest laps, points, speed, consistency - pretty much everything it takes to be successful...

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Ahhh Wrex! The Master Of Understatement! Toyota has been "missing something" pretty much since they joined the show: race wins, podiums, fastest laps, points, speed, consistency - pretty much everything it takes to be successful...

An interesting statement John. But I would take issue with it.

I looked back at the 2005 season and the USGP debacle of that year.

Ferrari scored 18 points at the six car 'USGP' that year. Without those points (and Toyota had to miss the race because of the Michelin trouble) Toyota would have finished third in the constructors championship and Ferrrari fourth...

The simplest way to deal with the results of that year is pull out the entire USGP points for all teams (as though the race never happened) and see what you get in both the WDC and the Constructors championship.....

I'm not making excuses for the Michelin shod teams but the debacle wasn't their fault in the main and taking out the US results does give a more balanced view of the rest of the season.

[FPV GTHO]

2005 was a good year for them, helped by Ferrari and Williams troubles and the rest of the teams being seperated by the new rules. They still produced a car nevertheless and couldve won with Ralf at Spa.

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

An interesting statement John. But I would take issue with it.

I looked back at the 2005 season and the USGP debacle of that year.

Ferrari scored 18 points at the six car 'USGP' that year. Without those points (and Toyota had to miss the race because of the Michelin trouble) Toyota would have finished third in the constructors championship and Ferrrari fourth...

The simplest way to deal with the results of that year is pull out the entire USGP points for all teams (as though the race never happened) and see what you get in both the WDC and the Constructors championship.....

I'm not making excuses for the Michelin shod teams but the debacle wasn't their fault in the main and taking out the US results does give a more balanced view of the rest of the season.

But that would rob Tiego Monteiro of a well-earned, hard fought podium!

[pottiella]

erm...Alonso/Renault...comfortably by the end of the year.

[Stefvh]

I voted for Honda, mmm, if i could change, i would go for Renault.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Now that DC can finish races without crashing, RBR are looking good for 5th.

Not with 2 9th's, a 12th and an 18th they won't

[Marbot]

DC must be very worried now,knowing that Danica Patrick is waiting in the wings.

It looks like it's going to be a very low scoring mid-field this season with seemingly only one driver from each of those teams able to do the business.

It'll be interesting to see what STR can do with the new RedBull car in Monaco.Honda are also said to be introducing some interesting new devices for that race.Let's hope it rains.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

.

Honda are also said to be introducing some interesting new devices for that race.Let's hope it rains.

Bigger dumbo ears. Theyre just gonna fly around the track.

Mick

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Ferrari scored 18 points at the six car 'USGP' that year. Without those points (and Toyota had to miss the race because of the Michelin trouble) Toyota would have finished third in the constructors championship and Ferrrari fourth...

Without superior Michelin tyres at most of the other 17 races, Toyota wouldn't've been close to Ferrari in the first place. In any case, Toyota have failed to build on that season, not least due to having such an unambitious driver line-up until now.

[JohnSSC]

My point exactly, Teretonga. I am not sure Toyota considers '05 a success over which we/they can wax nostalgic!

I can only imagine what Sir Frank could accomplish with whatever Toyota is spending - or for that matter, what SA could have done with 1/3 of the $$...

Toyota reminds me of someone who hits the lottery and buys the best of everything but who has no idea how to arrange the furniture.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Toyota reminds me of someone who hits the lottery and buys the best of everything but who has no idea how to arrange the furniture.

Maybe they should hire a couple of 'Feng Shui' boffins to sort it all out for them.

[Bononi]

That would be nice, at least they would be trying something...

[Wrex]

Lets face it, Toyota could have outspent Honda for Brawn. That was a huge opportunity lost for a serious step forward.

[FPV GTHO]

I think Toyota still believe they can win in F1 with their whole rule by commitee attitude. Brawn at Toyota at best wouldve probably been a senior technical director etc and not team principal as he is at Honda.

[Wrex]

Anyone care to change their vote?

01 Ferrari 73
02 BMW Sauber 70
03 McLaren-Mercedes 53
04 Red Bull-Renault 21
05 Toyota 17
06 Williams-Toyota 15
07 Renault 9
08 Honda 8
09 STR-Ferrari 7
10 Force India-Ferrari 0

[Adam RR]

Nope, I voted Redbull and DC just confirmed for me that it was the right choice

Good for him too!

[koper]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Anyone care to change their vote?

01 Ferrari 73
02 BMW Sauber 70
03 McLaren-Mercedes 53
04 Red Bull-Renault 21
05 Toyota 17
06 Williams-Toyota 15
07 Renault 9
08 Honda 8
09 STR-Ferrari 7
10 Force India-Ferrari 0

I voted now...voted on Williams...I have a feeling they will be 4th at the end

[Rick]

I think RBR, Renault and Williams are so close it will be whoever can get a bit more from their No. 2.

Piquet looks like a lost cause at the moment, Nakajima doing a bit better but hardly likely to score big points - the last race with DC highlighted the situation where you need your "Plan B" to hold together.

After Qualifying 13th the only option for DC was to fill 'er up - and when the race came to him he was there to pick up a swag of points - Piquet and Nakajima weren't.

Webber, Alonso and Rosberg all still seem to be within a tenth or two and will probably keep fighting for "Plan A"

The Toyota still doesn't look as quick as those 3.