Sao Paulo Track Circuit Revealed

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Hey Tim,

I can't recall one of your forecasts that I have agreed with, or has come to pass.

I got a tall draught that says you missed again on this one.

Andy

Edit : the only real disaster could be car count, but I doubt it for this race. 20, decent track, good crowd.

It'll have a good crowd, because Brazilians are big-time gearheads and they have some popular native drivers who are prominent in the Series.

I'm more worried about the track being a disaster (pavement, etc.), having enough time to get everything set up properly (the race is six weeks away) and things like that.

I can't help but think about CART/ALMS in Miami with diamond grinders ripping down huge lumps in the track that were unsafe, the mini ski jump over the light rail tracks and a hairpin so tight that cars could barely navigate it at San Jose, etc...Those are my "Keystone Kops" analogies that I'm considering...

Sure...I'll owe you a beer if I'm wrong, but there is very little time left to make this event work smoothly, given where they seem to stand as of now.

FWIW

[gttouring]

i still don't get why they ditched the Roval they used to race at..what was it the Fittipaldi circuit?
the racing was good and it was packed,
another street race? if it works they are genius, if it fails well we told them so :P :P
seriously i like the long straight and the sharp corners, i hope they pull it off, i just can't imagine champ i mean indy cars without turbos....
a field of reynard/ an lola XFE cossie turbos put on some good racing...and the DP01 Panoz chassis was great...
why do they run this series like toddlers?

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by gttouring

i still don't get why they ditched the Roval they used to race at..what was it the Fittipaldi circuit?
the racing was good and it was packed.

It's called the olympic games. The track you're talking about is Autodromo Nelson Piquet & Emerson Fittipaldi, also known as Jacarepagua to the surrounding neighbourhood. The roadcourse was dedicated to Piquet and the roval to Fittipaldi. Recently the track was modified because inside turn 4 of the oval and therefore also on the final section of the long roadcourse a stadium was built for the pan-am games which will be upgraded for the olympics. That's also why the roval is unavailable. The modifications made it possible to used turn 1 and 2 of the roval and the rest of the short roadcourse. I like to call this layout Autodromo Emerson Piquet as it combines the first bit of the roval with the last bit of the roadcourse.

Question answered?

[JagtechOhio]

I think that was previously named Jarapagua, or something similar? Regardless, this is excellent:

"Autodromo Emerson Piquet".

OOps, I see you mentioned that. My comment still stands.

[Woolley]

Jacarapauga. A great circuit in it's day (maybe it still is) with a pointless and fairly dangerous oval configuration.

Don't understand why you would go to the city of Interlagos and race on the streets, whatever the politics. It's like hiring a sumptuous mansion for the week-end and living in a caravan in the driveway.

[JagtechOhio]

Yep, I asked that question last fall and never found a definitive answer. Several people inferred that Mr. Ecelstone would never permit such a development.

I do not know if that was the actual reason, but I never heard Interlagos mentioned by IndyCar officials as a potential site. One could guess that Mr. B.E. could simply add a non-compete clause to the contract, and snuff any potential conflict over his exclusive use of the facility. But I'm no F1 expert, either.

Andy

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

the mini ski jump over the light rail tracks and a hairpin so tight that cars could barely navigate it at San Jose,

IMO, this was the greatest thing about OW racing in the states for the last 10 years, albeit extremely dangerous and, as you stated, a risk one runs when trying to "throw" together a race on a temp circuit.

[NaBUru38]

It's actually Jacarepaguá (accents matter a lot in Portuguese). The current track has a left-hander hairpin as a turn 1 (grey here). It measures 3.3km, fine for Indy cars, but the whole track is still in danger.

[blaffer]

Apparently Bernie Ecclestone is very much against an IndyCar race taking place in 'his' Sao Paulo.
Ecclestone hopes the track will not be approved when it is inspected by Charlie Witing.

http://www.gazetaesportiva.net/nota/...10/621833.html

[Purist]

Bernia needs to be told to, "**** off!", to his face. Frankly, the Americas should just tell him and the FIA exactly where they can shove their load.

If this means no Canadian, US, or Brazilian GP, then so be it; we really don't NEED his circus over here given all the crap that's involved in dealing with them.

Heck, I really wish the ACO had told BE where to shove it too, way back when the FIA pushed for the chicanes on the Mulsanne.

[Quintin03]

Bernard E. doesn't have anything to say in the FIA so why worry? He should realy **** off as Purist said as he isn't in charge anyway. He could have tried to become president of the FIA but he didn't so he shouldn't get involved in things not directly related to F1.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

Bernia needs to be told to, "**** off!", to his face. Frankly, the Americas should just tell him and the FIA exactly where they can shove their load.

If this means no Canadian, US, or Brazilian GP, then so be it; we really don't NEED his circus over here given all the crap that's involved in dealing with them.

Heck, I really wish the ACO had told BE where to shove it too, way back when the FIA pushed for the chicanes on the Mulsanne.

What'd I tell ya.

The FIA is going to have fun, fun, fun with this one.

[JagtechOhio]

Ok, I could use a lot of help on this one. How does a lack of FIA sanction prevent that race from being run?

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Purist

If this means no Canadian, US, or Brazilian GP, then so be it; we really don't NEED his circus over here given all the crap that's involved in dealing with them.

No F1 in the Americas? F1 >> IndyCar, it's the Maximum Circus, and without us it wouldn't exist.

Originally Posted by Purist

I really wish the ACO had told BE where to shove it too, way back when the FIA pushed for the chicanes on the Mulsanne.

Do you mean that the current three straights are too short for LMP1s? You'd be completely insane if so.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Looks like Bernie is running a little scared. There's a lot of discontent in F1 concerning GP venues, with the possibility of F1's traditional European GPs losing out to new venues in the far and middle east; there was no French GP last year and no French GP this year and this was where it all started. So it looks like he's just puffing out his chest and saying 'not in my back yard'. Bernie's interferance is rather reminiscent of his attempt in CART's hayday, to get the FIA to restrict the granting super licences to driver's, so they couldn't race in F1.

I can see why Bernie thinks Charlie Whiting's involvment is going to achieve a decision in his favor. Charlie Whiting worked for Bernie as chief mechanic when Bernie owned Brabham in the early 80s, with Nelson Piquet winning two driver's championships in 81 and 83 and Charlie Whiting's rise to FIA Technical Delegate mirrors Bernie's rise from F1 team owner to owner of F1.

However, Indy Car racing isn't really Charlie Whiting's remit and I don't see that he is really in a position to make a decision, other than that he is FIA Technical Delegate. Neither do I think it's in the FIA's and its new President Jean Todt's interest to embark on a policy of dictating to US and Brazilian motorsport what it can and cannot do. Both countries have racing interests outside of Indy Car, as the FIA well knows.

[Purist]

When Indy Cars are pushing 230-mph on the straights at Indy, 240-250-mph doesn't seem very outlandish anymore. And the LMP1s would be lucky to hit similar speeds to the Group C cars at LM any, because there is a heck of a lot more drag built into those cars now by default given the current regulations. The curent LMP1s also don't have the same sort of power output as the turbo Group C cars could muster. Power versus drag/frontal area determines your top end, so the current LMP1s cannot help but be slower down the Mulsanne than their predeecessors were anyway, just by virtue of the physics of the situation.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to that 0.9-mile stretch of three lanes on the back side of the Sao Paulo circuit. And you know, if there are some bumps in the roads, I'd hardly be averse to some spark showers; F1 at Adelaide anybody?

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

What'd I tell ya.

The FIA is going to have fun, fun, fun with this one.

We have both said this for a long time...Look at what they did to Champ Car in China...

Ain't approved...Ain't gonna race...

Ain't on the FIA Official Schedule...Ain't gonna race

They sanction the body that sanctions the IRL...ACCCUS...The IRL can't race anywhere it wants on a whim without the international approval when they step outside of the ACCUS jurisdiction.

Brazil doesn't fall under ACCUS

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Looks like Bernie is running a little scared. There's a lot of discontent in F1 concerning GP venues, with the possibility of F1's traditional European GPs losing out to new venues in the far and middle east; there was no French GP last year and no French GP this year and this was where it all started. So it looks like he's just puffing out his chest and saying 'not in my back yard'. Bernie's interferance is rather reminiscent of his attempt in CART's hayday, to get the FIA to restrict the granting super licences to driver's, so they couldn't race in F1.

I can see why Bernie thinks Charlie Whiting's involvment is going to achieve a decision in his favor. Charlie Whiting worked for Bernie as chief mechanic when Bernie owned Brabham in the early 80s, with Nelson Piquet winning two driver's championships in 81 and 83 and Charlie Whiting's rise to FIA Technical Delegate mirrors Bernie's rise from F1 team owner to owner of F1.

However, Indy Car racing isn't really Charlie Whiting's remit and I don't see that he is really in a position to make a decision, other than that he is FIA Technical Delegate. Neither do I think it's in the FIA's and its new President Jean Todt's interest to embark on a policy of dictating to US and Brazilian motorsport what it can and cannot do. Both countries have racing interests outside of Indy Car, as the FIA well knows.

The FIA has to sanction the race in order for the IRL to keep its good standing within the International sanctioning body...Their umbrella is ACCUS...recognized by the FIA

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

We have both said this for a long time...Look at what they did to Champ Car in China...

Ain't approved...Ain't gonna race...

Ain't on the FIA Official Schedule...Ain't gonna race

They sanction the body that sanctions the IRL...ACCCUS...The IRL can't race anywhere it wants on a whim without the international approval when they step outside of the ACCUS jurisdiction.

Brazil doesn't fall under ACCUS

Not just that, but other issues come into play as well, such as being able to obtain event insurance.

Personally I find the FIA a bit heavy handed and needs to take more of a back seat role rather than trying to control everything. I never have ever gotten a clear answer who exactly gave the FIA the power it seems to wield, but in most countries outside the USA there is one national motor club responsible for motorsport and it has a monopoly and they follow through on whatever the FIA says.

It was just about before my time but I remember the FIA tinkering with Surfers Paradise when it started in 1991 and I believe a deal was agreed that would be the only road or street race outside North America and any other races would have to be on ovals which in 1991 didn't really exist outside the USA(ones suitable for CART anyways).

[JagtechOhio]

As many dominoes as they have let drop out of the line,

And after the big push applied today to the one at the back,

This one, right here, is the front of the line. Knock this over and a few more teams cave, somebody gets fired, maybe Apex caves, Izod caves, TEAM money shaved, a few more teams cave, right on down the line.

IF Bernie has that power, and IF he wants to do it, all he has to do is knock it over. The longer he waits, the faster they will fall when he pushes.

Sadly, there is a heat wave so bad down in Brazil that elderly people are dying. God bless them, and their families.

[JagtechOhio]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the the details.

The link was a big help Blaffer, thank you for putting it up.

[AndrewF31]

Bernie tries to either control everything or destroy what he can't control. Despite this, his wonderful princess F1 is in shambles. Basically, Bernie is the rest of the world version of Tony George but it's just taking longer for the damage to cement itself.

He must have been very happy when Tony broke away from CART since it would not bold well for US OWR in the long run, as we now see.

F1 goes once to South America. GT1 goes twice. No World rally. Yet Bernie sees it fit to stuff it to South America. Disrespectful piece of cow dung. There always has to be a prick walking around who only cares about his own pocket.
Bernie has always pressed my wrong button.

I'm sure IRL is using a street course in São Paulo because Interlagos would never be possible, Rio is not an option and São Paulo is the next biggest market in Brazil, and still close enough to Rio.

[bjohnsonsmith]

When is Charlie Whiting meant to be making his inspection?

[Purist]

Andrew, by notoriety, yes, Rio is bigger. However, by population, Sao Paulo is definitely bigger than Rio. Rio is 6th or 7th worldwide in terms of population, and Sao Paulo is 2nd.

[bjohnsonsmith]

The significance of Sao Paulo is it is the home city to Emerson Fittipaldi, the late Ayrton Senna and Felipe Massa; no wonder Bernie has sleepless nights as he invisions hoardes of Brazilian F1 fans desert F1 for a couple of days to watch an Indy Car race. Maybe he's forgotten there are 5 Brazilian drivers in the ICS, one of whom comes from Sao Paulo.