Hamilton Maturing?

[Born Racer]

Racing is immature. They're all kids. "Kids isn't it? Doing a good job and then they..". Ah no, Webber didn't say that. He acknowledged it was a racing incident.

I do see your point, stripedcat, but I don't think maturity is the word.

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Yes, how dare he race? How stupid in today's game of automotive chess.

I agree it is great that Lewis races, particularly in nowadays with the difficulty of overtaking in F1, but two DNFs in a row is not good. Lewis does seem to have a major weakness at the start of races for going for a gap that isn't there.

[Born Racer]

He is driving a bit as though it were all about the race rather than the championship but sometimes that's good to see.

[NaBUru38]

Hamilton got crashed, Webber wasn't punished. Lewis' attitude? "It was a racing incident", no complaints to Webber or the stewards. Yes, Hamilton is maturing.

[Splatz the Cow]

That's really a separate issue to Hamilton's maturity; if Webber is punished does Hamilton become more mature or less as a direct result?

What Hamilton controls is his thoughts and actions, and he spoke before the race about the importance of finishing the race, and not being able to afford another DNF.

His primary objective to keep the pressure on in the championship was to have a points finish.

He did not do that.

Hamilton gambled that he could make the pass, and have more points then he had if he did not overtake Webber. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

As a driver he would have known that there was a chance the pass might not come off, and in the event of this, where would his car go, or the opponents car? This is no room for error on a street circuit.

So just like at Spa where he stayed out an extra lap in the rain and pushed to hard on the wrong tyres and went off the track for what would normally have been into the barrier and a DNF, he made a decision he did not need to make for only marginally greater reward.

Three races in a row now, he has made fundamental errors which have resulted in two DNFs, but realistically three DNFs; as we can include Spa also, as nine time out of ten he would have been into the wall.

I know he is fast and can overtake, and a great driver, but he has thrown this championship challenge away on his thoughts and actions alone.

In contrast, Alonso had no business being in the same discussion as the WDC, which should have been limited to Webber, Vettel and Hamilton, but he has shown all of his speed, experience, feistyness, and maturity.

I don't think Hamilton has matured much, and still seem as petulant, and arrogant as ever, and he is not backing it up on the track.

[ensign14]

I agree that Hamilton ought to have been extra-careful when overtaking someone who has repeatedly shown they have zero regard for the safety or integrity of other drivers, yes.

[Knowlesy]

It was very unlucky for Hamilton.

It is pointless finishing fourth, he has to beat those around him.

[foreversideways]

Hamilton was a bit lame suggesting he didn't know where Webber was, where did he expect him to be ? Lewis only need to give Mark, who was already up the kerb, a couple more feet at the apex and he would have got the job done. Still full marks to Lewis for trying, overtaking is what we want to see isn't it.

[garcon]

I dunno, the mirrors on an F1 car are more or less useless, so he would have been hard pushed ot see for certain that Webber was still inside him. Whether he should have expected Webber still to be there and given that extra foot or so of room is another question, and probably one of experience.

The fact Lewis was still prepared to take the opportunity, knowing there must be a risk and with the last race still at the back of his mind, I think shows a level of maturity in itself - knowing that one mistake shouldn't deter him from having a go in such a tight WDC battle where it looks like every point and every position will be vital.

When he watches it back, he'll know he could have given Webber that extra foot or so on the apex and still held the place - but he couldn't have known that at the time with what he could see in the car.

[Peat]

I feel Lewis was pretty hard done-by. He left enough room at the apex in my opinion, and wouldn't have expected the championship leader to keep his nose in there like that. It was Webber's front to Lewis's rear. Webber's fault. In Monza, Lewis did the same at the start and was quite rightly derided for it.

But the point has also been raised elsewhere, the Mclarens are seemingly made of china. The Ferrari's and Red Bulls are built like tanks!

[foreversideways]

Rumour has it that if you look inside the Mclaren chassis you can see Josiah Spode's signature

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Peat

I feel Lewis was pretty hard done-by. He left enough room at the apex in my opinion, and wouldn't have expected the championship leader to keep his nose in there like that. It was Webber's front to Lewis's rear. Webber's fault. In Monza, Lewis did the same at the start and was quite rightly derided for it.

Agree.

Originally Posted by Peat

the Mclarens are seemingly made of china

Or in China. :P

(Wow, I passed the 1000th post and didn't notice!)

[Wims]

Originally Posted by Peat

...It was Webber's front to Lewis's rear. Webber's fault. ...

It wasnt Webbers front into Hamiltons rear, it was Webbers side into Hamiltons side

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Wims

It wasnt Webbers front into Hamiltons rear, it was Webbers side into Hamiltons side

Absolutely! Webber left his braking as late as he could and still be in control at the corner, that's part of his job description, he is a racing driver. Once having done that he arrived under control at the Apex and made the corner with a very tight line left hand front wheel right up on the kerb, he was totally committed and could not physically do any better than this. He could have left his braking too late or misjudged it and locked a wheel in which case he would have sailed past the Apex and wiped them both out but he didn't he was inch perfect and kept his car as tight to the inside as he possibly could. Hamilton had to make an instant judgement as to the line to take through the corner and he wrongly believed he was fully passed Webber and could close the door, if he hadn't made this mistake he would surely have been through either on the exit or at the following corner where he had the better line. Neither driver really to blame but the biggest mistake was Hamilton's.

[Marbot]

'That' photo looks like a photo of Hamilton not giving Webber enough room. No doubt other photos will show Webber punting Hamilton off the circuit. No ones fault, but did it ever need to happen?

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Splatz the Cow

I don't think Hamilton has matured much, and still seem as petulant, and arrogant as ever, and he is not backing it up on the track.

Unreasonably irritable or ill-tempered; peevish.

Contemptuous in speech or behavior.

irritable, impatient, or sullen in a peevish or capricious way

Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/petulant

Hmm, the only one of these you could argue befitted Hamilton in Italy and Singapore was 'impatient'. I don't think 'petulant' is a fair way to describe him.

[Wims]

He did seem a bit petulant when he threw his steering wheel out of the car after retiring, altho one could argue that being ill tempered after ending up 21 points behind the championship leader was a reasonable emotion

[medius]

Or he realised he made a mistake in assuming other F1 cars can vanish into thin air, and has possibly thrown himself out of the title race for the second race weekend in a row.

[Marbot]

I look forward to Suzuka...and that final chicane.

Will he? Won't he? Did he need to?

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Wims

He did seem a bit petulant when he threw his steering wheel out of the car after retiring, altho one could argue that being ill tempered after ending up 21 points behind the championship leader was a reasonable emotion

I would definitely argue that being ill-tempered at that time was a reasonable emotion. Petulance it is not.

Originally Posted by medius

Or he realised he made a mistake in assuming other F1 cars can vanish into thin air, and has possibly thrown himself out of the title race for the second race weekend in a row.

Indeed he under-estimated where Webber's car would be and how it cannot vanish in that situation. If I were to apportion responsibility with an arbitrary figure, I would say it was 80-20 Hamilton's fault, but the onboard from Hamilton's car shows how it was sort of a racing accident, not completely ridiculous. He left Webber room, but clearly not enough, still turning in too tight.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Absolutely! Webber left his braking as late as he could...

was Webber having overheating problems with his brakes like his teammate was? late braking would explain why he was in a spot where Hammy didn't think he would be in.

edit: and go a long way in explaining this as a racing incident.

[E.B]

...... not that Webbers brakes would have been functioning at 100% as he bounced aross the kerbs

[Splatz the Cow]

Originally Posted by ensign14

I agree that Hamilton ought to have been extra-careful when overtaking someone who has repeatedly shown they have zero regard for the safety or integrity of other drivers, yes.

This is completely out of order.

"Zero regard for the safety or integrity of other drivers."

Do you really think this? For such a statement you really need to provide some evidence to support it.

If you don't show how this is the case, then it just seems you are trying to pick a fight.

I would prefer to see you withdraw such a statement.

[BMW_F1]

I am tired of seeing drivers assuming the entire racetrack is theirs when taking a turn. There is been many many cases in the past where two drivers go side by side for several turns and the only reason they are able to do that is because they forget about the ideal racing line and simply race the car next to them and no the track.. Good racers should know this and accept taking other lines (wider in this case) to make room for the driver who is inside otherwise they would collide every time. It looks like the racing skill set in F1 is deteriorating if Lewis is what we can consider to be the cream of the crop .. Does anyone here remembers the Montoya/Kimi racing battle in 02, or Button vs Alonso in 04 where they raced each other side by side for almost two laps.. ? or even Massa vs Kubica 3 years ago..

[Splatz the Cow]

Couldn't agree with you more.