Trainees are people too!

[Oscar114]

I know that someone on here has already said we need to make sure that everyone feels valued as part of the time. I have very rarely not felt this way following a day on the bank normally you get the P/C, I/O and buddy thanking you for a good day's marshalling and it's also worth remembering to thank others on post yourself.

There is also the feeling that the trainee marshal is being valued throughout the day, telling a trainee to just watch what I do and you stay over there isn't condusive to this. If I hadn't been allowed to learn with some of our more experienced marshals then I wouldn't be able to do my job now. If they had told me to stand there and watch what I do and when your a green badge you can do it then this wouldn't have been the case. I always tell any trainee paired with me that they need to look after themselves first and always watch them and stop if they are about to go on a live circuit a little early but this is part of the learning process.

I welcome all the new guys and girls into our sport and hope that they one day will be some of our more experienced marshals.

talking of trainees and training...id like to do a training day

Anyone know when there is one, where there is one and who I need to contact about doing one? Preferably in the South East Region....

[deley]

Originally Posted by Tom1

talking of trainees and training...id like to do a training day

Anyone know when there is one, where there is one and who I need to contact about doing one? Preferably in the South East Region....

I presume race rather than rally (but I may be wrong there)

In which case, training days are normally held for race marshals in the beginning of the year so Jan/Feb/Mar sort of time and there is usually one at most of the circuits in the SE.

Based on previous years I am sure there will be a flurry of postings on here nearer the time when dates become known.

In the meantime, if you are out on the bank during the rest of this year then make sure people know you are a trainee, ask lots of questions and you should also pick up a fair amount of "on the job" training from those around you.

Dave

Cheers Dave

[Steve Fox]

Great thread.
At the risk of saying something inappropriate, there does seem to be a lot of trainees who are happy to do 40-50-60 meetings without upgrading, This seems slightly flawed. As a trainee and having only done a handful of meetings so far I'm not in a position to say-but this does seem quite wasteful of resources, much like someone who spends their entire working life at university, who never uses his education (in this case passing his wealth of knowledge gained during years of marshaling on to trainees as it should be) It may be the case that these marshals keep on being at the wrong place at the wrong time and never get to deal with any incidents, in which case continued training would be correct. But, it may well be that the trainee isn't competent enough to move up but surely there is a point at which to say that you are not going to learn what is required and to stand away before someone gets hurt or is it simply a question of dodging the responsibility that comes from being a trained team member, hiding forever behind the trainee moniker (don't blame me if this went wrong, I'm just a trainee etc) I know the argument would be about learning and experience but I know that there is not one I/O or PC who would not welcome questions or advice from any marshal, graded or otherwise.
Having said that, it may well be wrong that only 10 signatures are needed and that 40 or 50 are more like it, I'm sure that I will be corrected if that is the general consensus.
Anyway, No offence meant.

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by Steve Fox

Great thread...............

Steve what you said was well observed an perceived. It does not matter if you are a trainee or a post chief - your views are absolutely valid and you have every right to express them. Despite us all bickering like old women (especially me LOL) we are all one big team...

It does seem a waste as you say to have 60 or 70 days on the card and not be graded. You would be unlucky indeed (probably unique) not to have something in that time.

However, people are only encouraged to grade up when they feel ready. For some it is more than others.

I suspect that one bottleneck may be getting posted with an Examining Post Chief and have an incident happen at the same time for an assessment.

The other I suspect is the current schemes requirement for a Track marshal to do 5 flag days to upgrade to "Experienced". I get a feeling that there are a good few marshals out there not grading to Exp simply because they do not want to do 5 days flagging. Maybe the requirment could be reduced to say 1 or 2 days - after all you won't make "flaggie" in 5 days anyhow - it takes experience to do it well, we only need a check to confirm that someone could stand in if needed.

I also suspect the scheme is about to change again re number of required attendance signatures...watch this space...

[MartinB]

Steve, my failure to get around to upgrading from trainee after over 30 events isn't due to not learning. Apart from one fire, I've been lucky not to have had any incidents that have given me a chance to show that I'm capable. That hasn't stopped me from passing on what I have learnt on to others where I have the opportunity.
Is there a reason why I should upgrade? I have little interest at the moment in flagging, and as a trainee I can't be expected to flag when there's a shortage of marshals. The only thing only being a trainee stops me doing is F1 and after today's news I won't be watching next year's GPs so why worry about being able to marshall any?

[Dave Brand]

While I believe that nobody should be pressured into upgrading, I do believe that everyone should make the effort to make some progress through the grading system, to a level at which they feel comfortable. Trainee to track & then "experienced" is a natural progression - from then on, it's more specialised. If you've got the knowledge & experience, why not have tangible proof?

Reasons for not upgrading? The three that spring to mind are lack of ability, lack of experience & lack of confidence. Lack of ability is, thankfully, very rare. Lack of experience is just a matter of time. Lack of confidence is something we can all help with - the few words of encouragement, the "well done" after an incident has been successfully handled, all help boost confidence.

[Steve Fox]

Originally Posted by MartinB

I've been lucky not to have had any incidents that have given me a chance to show that I'm capable.

Ah, a good luck charm!

I take on board that there are a good number of external factors, particularly the fact that one would need to be with an examining post chief at the same time as a suitable incident and be nearest and be seen to be doing it correctly and and and, but there may also be other reasons why one trainee doesn't want to upgrade (as apposed to doesn't get the opportunity to upgrade, which I fully understand) and it is those that I was curious about.

Personally I want to upgrade as soon as I can, and to do that I am going to learn as much as possible, if that means attending loads of meetings to get that knowledge then fine but it is more likely that with all my questions any post chief that has me for the day will wish they hadn't. (right Peter?)

[Sparky-steve]

I was wondering when does a Nadinling become a full marshal??
if they ever do that it LOL

[Steve Fox]

"Nadinling"? Dare I ask?.................

[Woolley]

Actually, it's Nadlings, formerly known as Clifflings.

n. Those who take the morning tour of Oulton, used to be led by the great Cliff Hammond and now by Nadine, hence the name. It arose because on one day Cliff and his little band of followers were heading one direction and a Goose with several goslings were coming the other. The similarity was notable.

[Steve Fox]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Actually, it's Nadlings, formerly known as Clifflings.

n. Those who take the morning tour of Oulton, used to be led by the great Cliff Hammond and now by Nadine, hence the name. It arose because on one day Cliff and his little band of followers were heading one direction and a Goose with several goslings were coming the other. The similarity was notable.

Oh, I see. Nothing to do with beer, pies or mucky sorts then, Interest waning..

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by Steve Fox

Oh, I see. Nothing to do with beer, pies or mucky sorts then, Interest waning..

Mucky sorts maybe - especially if you follow the geese!

[Steve Fox]

Originally Posted by exflagman

Mucky sorts maybe - especially if you follow the geese!

Interest re-engaged..............

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by antbuchanan

The title of this thread made me chuckle when I first read it,

Got your attention though, didn't it?

[turbo-ww]

Dear God, I've just stumbled across this thread.

Nearly lost the will to live over the length of post 1, when post 2 quotes all of it!!

And there are 5 pages of it... (No, I have not read it)

For my part trainees are very important, the lifeblood of future crews, and to be nurtured and most certainly valued.

Thank you.

[Tom Bee]

I have also only just come across this thread.

I think its the title 'trainee' that causes the issue here. Personally it didnt really bother me but i can understand others may feel differently.

[Woolley]

'Trainee Marshal' seems a really good title for someone who's new to marshalling or comparatively inexperienced, learning how to do it properly and having training. They used to be called Novice marshals, which was also a good title, but people didn't seem to like that either (I was one of those and it never bothered me).

Unlike the previous poster, I can't understand why others would feel differently, what's wrong with being described as you are? How about 'Trackside Sweeping Operative'?

[exflagman]

Or 'Standing around trying to get seen on TV at a BTCC meeting' operative

[nate93]

Being a trainee myself, I don't really see why anyone would have a problem with the title - at the end of the day it stops those of higher grades expecting to much of us and lets other people know that we may need help with some things or some things explaining to us, surely this can only be a good thing?

I've got four meetings under my belt now and can say I've thoroughly enjoyed all of them, everyone has been super helpful and explained things to me, a couple of people saying that if ever i want to know something just track them down and feel free to ask - i've not been made to feel a "burden" at all. I've been entrusted to do things (with guidance) and havent just been left standing on post like a nobody, and at sign on in the mornings everyone says hello and is chatty/helpful, so I dont see the problem of being a trainee.

[Tom Bee]

Originally Posted by Woolley

'Trainee Marshal' seems a really good title for someone who's new to marshalling or comparatively inexperienced, learning how to do it properly and having training. They used to be called Novice marshals, which was also a good title, but people didn't seem to like that either (I was one of those and it never bothered me).

Unlike the previous poster, I can't understand why others would feel differently, what's wrong with being described as you are? How about 'Trackside Sweeping Operative'?

Maybe we should think about changing the title form trainee to 'not as experienced as others'.

[Apple]

I am a trainee and not at all bothered with the title,
and reading the thread it seems that trainees are not bothered with it either.
Is it just a perceived problem by others?
How about any trainees troubled by being called trainee putting their hands up and lets see if we are going round in circles for nothing.
I've not come across any problems with more senior marshals attitude everyone has been helpful and welcoming and I am enjoying my time on the bank.
Mick

[socko]

^^^^^totally agree^^^^^

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Apple

Is it just a perceived problem by others?

I suspect that's the case. As with many areas of so-called discrimination the problems occur when someone gets offended on behalf of someone else. Back in the days when I was a novice I think I only knew one person who expressed any disatisfaction with the title (and he disappeared from the scene fairly rapidly), yet I often heard that we thought it was demeaning. I think we've just moved on to the same situation, different title.

Even now, if I go to a new circuit with different methods I'll introduce myself as an experienced novice, as in experienced, but not here.