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16 Aug 2011, 07:38 (Ref:2941653) | #51 | |||
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Like you, the first time Nina and I went racing we were also all at sea. What was worse it was at a circuit I had marshaled for 3 years or so and new well. I hate to think what happenes if you come in "blind". The first time Nina saw a SC was on her second race. She wasn't a marshal at the time and had little idea what was happening, especially as she didn't really catch sight of the safety car as she was nearly at the back. The restart was hilarious, everybody took off and she just idled past wondering where everybody had gone, much to the chagrin of the 4 people behind her. It was due to inexperience - won't make that mistake again! |
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16 Aug 2011, 07:51 (Ref:2941656) | #52 | ||
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I think that one of the points raised was that the ARDS test is so easy that it is almost impossible to fail, although I agree that it isn't the point of the ARDS to teach anyone anything, but to test their knowledge, I believe that their knowledge should be extended to matters of safety and proceedure and then they should be vigorously tested on it, As a driver and a Track Marshal I could think of a load of things to include but if you were to ask a scrutineer, startline marshal, medical officer, timekeeper, any number of different officials they could all think of some relevant questions, knowing the answers to which would not only make the day run more smoothly but could also potentially be a lifesaver, if the day runs smoothly and is somewhat safer then it must be more enjoyable for the competitor too.
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You see a washing line full of ladies underwear blowing in the wind? Do you notice how it swings lazily back and forth, without direction or meaning? That's your flagging that is. |
16 Aug 2011, 16:35 (Ref:2941786) | #53 | |||
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Going in gets stones into brakes, intakes, under cam shaft belts and into any recess available. Being dragged out scoops gravel into any hole, can remove towing eyes and scratches bodywork. That is one reason why we use a scrap car for training snatch crew. Regards Jim |
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16 Aug 2011, 16:41 (Ref:2941788) | #54 | |||
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Regards Jim |
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Life is not safe, just choose where you want to take the risks. |
16 Aug 2011, 17:47 (Ref:2941811) | #55 | ||
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Always used to try to do it when at a new post/circuit, but it almost went wrong at the first Birmingham Superprix - sitting in middle of track on approach to first bend - nearly got run over by a course car! Not sure which variant of the 'fat clerk' species was driving it at the time... |
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16 Aug 2011, 19:47 (Ref:2941856) | #56 | |||
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Comments made are personal and don't reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
17 Aug 2011, 15:28 (Ref:2942140) | #57 | ||
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Something bikes do as a licensing requirement is a mock race day where riders undergo the entire race day experience - perhaps cars could look at something similar.
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Green bit slippy, black bit grippy. |
18 Aug 2011, 11:13 (Ref:2942458) | #58 | |
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msa brought in ards to make money in my day no ards 70 entries for f3 the same for f fords 240 entries at mallory you could then argue that ards maid entries fall to present levels!!!
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18 Aug 2011, 11:46 (Ref:2942471) | #59 | ||
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Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Lous Stephenson |
20 Aug 2011, 15:11 (Ref:2943340) | #60 | ||
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Life in the fast lane............ |
20 Aug 2011, 16:13 (Ref:2943349) | #61 | |
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20 Aug 2011, 19:31 (Ref:2943397) | #62 | ||
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Life in the fast lane............ |
25 Aug 2011, 17:33 (Ref:2945798) | #63 | ||
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Just to let you know that I decided to go direct to John Kirkpatrick of JRRDS (one of the founders of ARDS and still involved) re comments on what should be and should not be included in current ARDS courses. Subject to be discussed at next meeting on 22nd September.
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26 Aug 2011, 13:27 (Ref:2946331) | #64 | ||
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It's interestig what they do in Eire on their equivalent of ARDS
A link here http://www.motorsportireland.com/Tra...otorsport.aspx It seems on the face of it more comprehensive. |
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30 Aug 2011, 00:20 (Ref:2948047) | #65 | |||
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On the subject of signals to drivers, particularly at start/finish lines......trust me - I almost never see any pit-board signs my crew are showing, and official signs are much less easily readable - a waved chequer flag is easy, but a small board with a number is in a different league......typical was at Brands almost a year ago, when we (CSCC) had an invitation race shared with a GT's meet - and at the end of our race, our CoC gave us all the most almighty rollicking because about 80% of us had apparently broken the pit speed limit and then ignored the signs calling us in for a drive-through.....it was a very bad end to the day.... Of course we were all baffled as we almost never get these infringements....examining in-car video revealed that the end-of-pit-lane speed limit marker had been moved between Qualy and Race, and no-one had told us - so of course everyone had floored it when we passed where the sign had been in Qualy......and as for ignoring the signs....when you are crossing the finish line at Brands you are aiming at the opposite side of the track, braking from high speed before turning into Paddock - and trust me. concentrating very hard on positioning your car and observing the other cars around you....leisure time to scrutinise something at 70 -80 degrees to the right of your visual focus is extremely limited.....In this case the CoC did write to us all a few days later saying that in the light of the circumstances he wouldn't be taking any further action......I think he was embarassed as no-one had told him of the limit change either.... Almost without exception of the circuits I have raced - Cadwell is probably the only one I can think of - your line / focus is on the opposite side of the track from where flags/boards are posted......if you know you've maybe transgressed then you'll probably look a little closer, to see if you've "got away with it", but otherwise it certainly isn't easy..... |
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Richard Murtha: You don't stop racing because you are too old, you get old when you stop racing! But its looking increasingly likely that I've stopped.....have to go back to rallying ;) |
30 Aug 2011, 12:31 (Ref:2948279) | #66 | ||
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I really wish we'd do black flags the way the Americans do. A big black board with 'Black Flag Board' written on it in flourescent writing and a large number below. It's displayed before the last corner at a point where it is highly visible to the drivers - at Rockingham that was inside turn 3 and at Brands it was at the end of bottom Straight before Clearways. Also means that if something is leaking then they don't do a whole lap after you've told them to come in.
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30 Aug 2011, 20:05 (Ref:2948537) | #67 | |
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I might be extrapolating national practice from a single meeting here, but certainly at Mallala in South Australia they have a repeater post at post/turn 7, before the cars get to the last two corners. We didn't have to repeat any black/meatball/driving standards flags that day, but the whole caboodle was sitting in the corner of the flag point - big board, number cards, and extra flags.
Sadly it didn't stop a Commodore which had ruptured the sump doing a complete lap at racing speed... |
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31 Aug 2011, 02:43 (Ref:2948671) | #68 | |||
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Nope, we do the same here in Victoria. Black Flag Relay points at every track, usually one that that drivers are looking at for a long time (approach to slow corner, on the line between apexes, that sort of thing.) And drivers find it hard to miss the Black Flag board at Winton, its a little under 3x3 feet square, with foot high numbers on it. |
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31 Aug 2011, 04:07 (Ref:2948680) | #69 | ||
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Latest thing is the lighted panel, four feet by three feet perhaps, seen at Yas Marina - brilliant for displaying b/w diagonal and other start line flags. Any driver who misses this should be banned from further driving until he proves he is not totally blind!
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31 Aug 2011, 08:52 (Ref:2948740) | #70 | ||
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1 Sep 2011, 11:57 (Ref:2949379) | #71 | |
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All this talk of the ARDS test not being hard enough and is the content the right one? bothers me a bit.
When I started car racing there was no such thing as an ARDS test, you just got in your car and set off. I don't recall there being any more problems caused by poor driving standards then than there is now, possibly the other way round. I would be interested to hear if any marshals are reading this who marshalled in pre ARDS test days, and whether they can recall any improvement in driving standards taking place once the ARDS test came into being. |
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1 Sep 2011, 12:18 (Ref:2949391) | #72 | ||
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I would be interested to hear if any marshals are reading this who marshalled in pre ARDS test days, and whether they can recall any improvement in driving standards taking place once the ARDS test came into being.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with you. I got my Race Licence in 1977 and believe me the standards are not any worse today than they were then! I was in F.Ford 1600 as was, and believe me if you want to see some scary driving try and find videos or dvd's of the Festival @ Brands, especially with the catch fencing. |
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Comments made are personal and don't reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
1 Sep 2011, 14:44 (Ref:2949453) | #73 | ||
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Now, Catch fencing. That would improve driving standards if you thought there would be half a chance of a face full of that. Not nice.
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You see a washing line full of ladies underwear blowing in the wind? Do you notice how it swings lazily back and forth, without direction or meaning? That's your flagging that is. |
1 Sep 2011, 15:46 (Ref:2949477) | #74 | ||
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I remember Dick Parsons dying @ Woodcote in a F3 race at Silverstone in the late 80's because of catch fencing, lethal stuff.
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Comments made are personal and don't reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
2 Sep 2011, 16:31 (Ref:2949962) | #75 | |||
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In the ensuing years the general respect for authority has declined. Most of the current Clerks came up via the marshalling route and arguably a little better skilled at driver observation on track than some of their predecessors. The other side of that particular coin, so as not to be seen to be unfair to previous Clerks, is to point to the myriad of better information systems current Clerks have to deal with transgressions - better trained marshals, much, much more information from timekeepers and the benefit of footage from track and in-car cameras that can be replayed endlessly to better establish who-hit-who! There are also the MSA training schemes for Clerks and Stewards and the judicial notes of guidance for Clerks just reissued that most Clerks find of great help. Making the Clerk the first stage of the judicial process, rather than everything going to the Stewards, has also helped the situations, evidenced by the greatly reduced number of appeals to the National Court. I am not sure there has been any great reduction, nor any great increase, in the number of driving incidents dealt with but I suspect the accuracy has improved, because of the reasons given - certainly the number of appeals has reduced dramatically. However, I see no harm in trying to make sure new drivers are aware of this, amongst other facets of an average day racing, before they hit the tracks and ARDS, to me, would be a good place to start. |
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