Proposed new Historic touring car series.

[awseng]

we hope to have a car runnng for a customer and if re-creations are allowed then may look at building a car also

[ken clarke]

Re-creations are welcome, however if you are building a re-creation/replica try to use homologated components & a period colour scheme.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by ken clarke

Re-creations are welcome, however if you are building a re-creation/replica try to use homologated components & a period colour scheme.

Ken, your use of the word 'try' is making me nervous- I thought from reading your original post that for acceptance the car would have to be built to original Group 5 / 2 / A /1 homologated spec, and presented in a 'period' colour scheme?

Hope the goalposts havn't been moved further apart.....

[awseng]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Ken, your use of the word 'try' is making me nervous- I thought from reading your original post that for acceptance the car would have to be built to original Group 5 / 2 / A /1 homologated spec, and presented in a 'period' colour scheme?

Hope the goalposts havn't been moved further apart.....

think Ken can be forgiven for not using exact wording, and sure that a car built to the same spec as period would be the only re-creation accepted..
the cars I am considering would have no issue as for one have the original in the workshop, and the second i used to work for they company that built it.. if funds permit we will build one or both .. although they may not be out 2012 but !!

[ken clarke]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Ken, your use of the word 'try' is making me nervous- I thought from reading your original post that for acceptance the car would have to be built to original Group 5 / 2 / A /1 homologated spec, and presented in a 'period' colour scheme?

Hope the goalposts havn't been moved further apart.....

Not at all Mike but we have to accept that to get the series running a little flexibility may be required at the beginning. Obviously if you are building a car from scratch as was suggested it would be folly to build it to a non homologated spec as ultimately it would not be acceptable>

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by ken clarke

Not at all Mike but we have to accept that to get the series running a little flexibility may be required at the beginning. Obviously if you are building a car from scratch as was suggested it would be folly to build it to a non homologated spec as ultimately it would not be acceptable>

Ken, my tongue was firmly in cheek when I made that comment. It is my belief, however, that if you want to attract genuine original cars or period correct evocations, allowing 'hooky' or 'hot rod' versions (apologies for exaggerated terms there) in same race isn't the way. And, as I'm sure you have found in the past, commercial organisers can be reluctant to turn away a 'non correct' car if the owner of said car spends a lot of money racing with them. They have a living to make, after all......

Like AWS, I want to build a period looking and period correct car, and have somewhere to race it where the playing field is level. I'm hoping that MRL and JDC will offer that!

[awseng]

The only concern i would have is, i spoke to Duncan regards this series about this time last year,and if re-creations would be allowed, it origanally was no as there plenty of real car out there to fill the grid!! non gen correct cars are to be allowed now, when all the real cars are able to be used in a few years time, are those who supported it early days spent money building cars going to be turned away??

[Peter Mallett]

Alternatively, if those original cars won't be raced (which seems to be the current scenario) then this series built on facsimiles plus originals (that the owners will race) will remain as thus.

[ken clarke]

Originally Posted by awseng

The only concern i would have is, i spoke to Duncan regards this series about this time last year,and if re-creations would be allowed, it origanally was no as there plenty of real car out there to fill the grid!! non gen correct cars are to be allowed now, when all the real cars are able to be used in a few years time, are those who supported it early days spent money building cars going to be turned away??

Duncan & I have discussed the series at great length. We have a span of 20 years to pool cars from. If in the future we find we have too many cars for a grid, bear in mind that we are going to large circuits where grid maximums are usually around 40 cars, then the races will be split by year or class not by genuine & replica. The only thing a replica may be asked to do is change its paint work if we have too many cars the same, Imagine 10 Bastos Rovers would be quite exciting but boring

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by ken clarke

Imagine 10 Bastos Rovers would be quite exciting but boring

I get your point!

[awseng]

i guess two of each as it may have been in period !!!

[ken clarke]

Originally Posted by awseng

i guess two of each as it may have been in period !!!

One of each will do for a start!!!!

[chunterer]

Coming in as a real fan I can only echo the comments already made to ken and wish this the biggest of success in time.

I had a feeling that this series might be the JD Classics, as adding another series would be suicide as clubs strive to get interest and continuous registrations for all categories.

From a punters point of view I would agree that it's possbily best to get the cars at the events and then worry about spiitting them according to age, class, spec etc.

I think that in most cases the big engined cars from Gr2 and GrA would possibly be fairly similar in performance (depending on who's at the wheel..)

Not too sure how the smaller engined cars would fair but a big enginer Gr1 car like a sorted Capri might be on a similar plane to a 1600cc Gr2 Escort? But that's for another day!

I really do hope that we get to see the XJS, Vitesse's, 635's all out along with some pukka Gr1 Capri 3.0s which I grew up in utter awe of, as well as the older cars such as the Escort like Mike runs, which are a bit before my time but no less exciting to watch and good to look at!

So as far as Grp A is concerned the following cars are out there as far as we know:
several Rover Vitesse's....
at least 3 BMW 635's
2 XJS
1 Starion
1 Celica Supra (in Ireland??)

Of course there are several other big engined cars across Europe and Australasia that would more than fit the bill if they could be tempted....

There's nothing to stop an early Holden Commodore (85/86 VK)entering if any such cars were still in period spec in Europe?

As far as the middle class goes we know there is an Escort RST very near race condition...
Not sure about things like Alfa GTV6's in the UK, but Jon Dooley has his stuck in a barn...
There are at least 2 Metro Turbo's....

In the smaller classes there are several RS1600's, one or two Golf's and I would be very interested to learn if there are any Corolla GT's available?

Ken have any owners of the less known cars above been in touch with you or Duncan?

[Mike Bell]

Hey James that post seems to have grown a bit!

Every time I look at the 70s period ETCC races I wonder where all the smaller engined cars went. I know where there was an original Skoda 130RS for sale last year, and maybe there is a NSU TT about, but what about the Sciroccos, Celicas, Audi 80s, Imps, etc etc. How great would it be to see some interest in the 1300 and 1600 cars again!

Happy New Year and here's to some good safe racing in 2012!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Hey James that post seems to have grown a bit!

Every time I look at the 70s period ETCC races I wonder where all the smaller engined cars went. I know where there was an original Skoda 130RS for sale last year, and maybe there is a NSU TT about, but what about the Sciroccos, Celicas, Audi 80s, Imps, etc etc. How great would it be to see some interest in the 1300 and 1600 cars again!

Happy New Year and here's to some good safe racing in 2012!

And to you Mike, lovely to make your acquaintance this year and looking forward to seeing you next season!

Yes i guess the older cars might be even harder to track down let alone entice onto the circuits again?

Grp2 seemed to be more of interest to European racers in its latter days apart from the odd British racers like the Ronnie Scotts cars and the like?

[Peter Mallett]

Pretty much standard fayre but it has made the Main Stream Media. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...s-expands.html

[chunterer]

So 1966-85 now then?

Well that should ensure decent entries even if it will perhaps mean a lot of cars we might already have seen before?

We've seen Anglias, Cortinas and Escorts, very good they are too, which will always be a staple part of our historic saloon scene but it's the later cars that are arguably rarer wth owners that have a shown a marked reluctance to use them that are what we need to see.

[ken clarke]

Originally Posted by chunterer

So 1966-85 now then?

Well that should ensure decent entries even if it will perhaps mean a lot of cars we might already have seen before?

We've seen Anglias, Cortinas and Escorts, very good they are too, which will always be a staple part of our historic saloon scene but it's the later cars that are arguably rarer wth owners that have a shown a marked reluctance to use them that are what we need to see.

Always was going to be 66 to 85, thus preventing Cosworths & M3s spoiling the party!!

Anglias & Mk1 Cortinas will not be welcome, these cars have many other places to play. However Mk1 Escorts a la Broadspeed 1300, Lotus Cortina MK2s etc are welcome, currently they have no where sensible to race if you wish to do any more than a 10 lap sprint.

So hopefully there will not be too many cars you have seen before.

[Mike Bell]

What a pity the press release pictures a 105E, as it does confuse the reader somewhat!

James, most Anglias racing will be prepared to pre 1966 regs, either App K or something based on those regs, so I guess wouldn't want to play even if eligible. Now an FVC engined Lotus Cortina (Mk2) or Escort GT with 1300cc downdraft injected screamer would be a sight for sore eyes- and a sound for sore ears....... I assume there should be owners of BMW2002s and Alfa GTAMs expressing interest as well?

Bring them on!

[ken clarke]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

What a pity the press release pictures a 105E, as it does confuse the reader somewhat!

James, most Anglias racing will be prepared to pre 1966 regs, either App K or something based on those regs, so I guess wouldn't want to play even if eligible. Now an FVC engined Lotus Cortina (Mk2) or Escort GT with 1300cc downdraft injected screamer would be a sight for sore eyes- and a sound for sore ears....... I assume there should be owners of BMW2002s and Alfa GTAMs expressing interest as well?

Bring them on!

My sentiments entirely Mike. Over the past few years I have been approached by many people who want to run just such cars right up to 1986 Bastos Rovers but have nowhere to play. I am now being asked by people to find them cars for this period. If we can get even half of these people out on a grid we will have a good series.

[snowen250]

Just wanted to say i'm really excited about this.

I've always thought there is a big gap between pre 1966 and then late 1980s series stuff out there racing. Hopefully this will fill that gap.

As a child of the 90s (well born 88 but i dont remember much from that) Would it be possible for somone to post a little brief guide as to what cars some of the groups relate to? As im afraid i find it all a bit confusing!

thanks a lot and i look forward to seeing some of you out at Brands. I'm guessing the yellow and Green Mark 1 escort i've seen is yours Mike? If so thats a stunning car!

Simon

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by snowen250

Would it be possible for somone to post a little brief guide as to what cars some of the groups relate to? As im afraid i find it all a bit confusing!

thanks a lot and i look forward to seeing some of you out at Brands. I'm guessing the yellow and Green Mark 1 escort i've seen is yours Mike? If so thats a stunning car!

Simon

Simon, unless Ken wants to do it I'll try and do a resume of what could be included in the groups. And thanks for the compliment- we plan on being at Brands again this year

[Al Weyman]

OK so where does one find regulations for all these cars across a span of years, google didnt tell much. For example whats the low down on say a 72/3 car in group 1 or A or equivilant, I find it all a bit confusing?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

OK so where does one find regulations for all these cars across a span of years, google didnt tell much. For example whats the low down on say a 72/3 car in group 1 or A or equivilant, I find it all a bit confusing?

Al, it is confusing. The various Groups are all covered by the FIA regulations of the time, and Appendixes can be found on their website somewhere. If you really want to read them I'll find you a link....

[Al Weyman]

I would be interested in reading them thanks.