Petrov replaces Trulli at Caterham for 2012

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Easy to say, but if you're doing a job you love and someone is prepared to pay you well to do it, it must be tempting to stick around.

I'd question the love part. Trulli was just taking the money for the final few years, just like Ralf. He had two seasons to show any kind of motivation but really didn't.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

If the drivers on the 2012 F1 grid had poor parents who couldn't afford to put them in a go-kart, you'd never have heard of any of them. Motorsport is expensive, and F1 an exclusive club.

Natural talent isn't enough to get you to F1 - you need money, contacts, a famous surname or maybe just a bit of luck.

I'm not entirely convinced that the parents of Vettel, Button, Hamilton or Schumacher (to name but a few) were exactly loaded.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I'm not entirely convinced that the parents of Vettel, Button, Hamilton or Schumacher (to name but a few) were exactly loaded.

Hamilton and Vettel were lucky in that they were picked up very young my McLaren and Red Bull respectively so, although yes, their parents had to pay to get them into karting (A. Hamilton famously holding down three jobs at once) the rest of the ladder was pretty much gold-paved for them so long as they proved they really had the talent.

I don't know about Schumacher, though I know his dad owns that German kart track (the name escapes me, begins with a 'K'?) and the fact that both brothers made it through the ranks suggest there was some money there. Also, Michael was helped along by West cigarettes in his early career.

John Button was one of the first people to start spending a lot of money on his son's karting career, especially in cadets. I believe (and I could be wrong) he was one of the first to buy loads of engines, test them and then keep the best - a practice rife in Rotax classes at the moment.

Motor racing has always been expensive, but it is certainly less accessible than ever to progress up the ladder without an oligarch for a father.

In the 1960s and 70s drivers would make a large proportion of their money from prize money, thus you had to be good to earn a decent living. Prize money was substantial all the way down to Formula Ford as thus you could, if talented, pay for your season's racing.

Furthermore, the teams, at all levels of the sport, found their own sponsors (mainly after 1968 when sponsorship boomed) and, as such, they had pre-funded seats available for the best drivers. Now, if you want a British F3 seat you are expected to find the sponsor, not Carlin of Fortec etc.

[Super Hans]

The thing about Anthony Hamilton having three jobs is a bit misleading. One is encouraged to imagine him getting up at 4am to milk cows, before heading for a shift at the factory and then stacking shelves in a supermarket in the evening.

In reality, he just took on three contracts for his IT firm or something.

Slightly less rags-to-riches.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I'm not entirely convinced that the parents of Vettel, Button, Hamilton or Schumacher (to name but a few) were exactly loaded.

Never said they were. But none were poor, and all relied on money, contacts or luck to get where they are. All have great talent of course, but talent alone is never enough.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

The thing about Anthony Hamilton having three jobs is a bit misleading. One is encouraged to imagine him getting up at 4am to milk cows, before heading for a shift at the factory and then stacking shelves in a supermarket in the evening.

In reality, he just took on three contracts for his IT firm or something.

Slightly less rags-to-riches.

I've never truly believed it and your extra information certainly confirms my suspicions.

[MichaelH]

Trulli performed pretty well through 09 with Toyota and I thought was utterly short-changed ending up at Lotus in the first place given how competitive he (and ditto Glock) had been in that final Toyota.

A decent career that could have been much more, but it was probably time to go.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by MichaelH

Trulli performed pretty well through 09 with Toyota and I thought was utterly short-changed ending up at Lotus in the first place given how competitive he (and ditto Glock) had been in that final Toyota.

A decent career that could have been much more, but it was probably time to go.

I thought it was a great shame that Toyota who many people used to knock were so very close to making good in F1..

I remember the last year that they were in F1 there were major rain delays at Interlagos and so they spent some time looking in to the front of the team garages, I thought that Toyota was a total beauty. I suppose that must have 09?

I am not sure if Petrov will do a better job to be honest but I realise why the team have given him the drive..

[MichaelH]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I thought it was a great shame that Toyota who many people used to knock were so very close to making good in F1..

I remember the last year that they were in F1 there were major rain delays at Interlagos and so they spent some time looking in to the front of the team garages, I thought that Toyota was a total beauty. I suppose that must have 09?

I am not sure if Petrov will do a better job to be honest but I realise why the team have given him the drive..

that final Toyota is surely an example of a very good car that had race-winning potential but for whatever reason never quite managed it. Ditto 2004 BAR, 1998 Benetton, probably countless others.

Just a shame it seemed to be the final nail in their coffin.

[JeremySmith]

Ditto Michael..

[Paulaweybridge]

I remember taking fotos of a young Duncan Tappy when he was in karting and his smooth and consistant style reminded me of a certain Alain Prost and knew that he would go far.

Past winner of the Formula Ford Festival and the British Formula Renault title are proof of his pedigree.

http://www.duncantappy.com/

But will ever see him in F1 and he deserves to be.

Very much doubt it sadly ..

Why?

Lack of financial backing ..

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Paulaweybridge

But will ever see him in F1 and he deserves to be.

If every driver who 'deserves to be in F1' was in F1, the grid would resemble the M25.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by CaterhamF1-Twitter feed

Our first bit of good news today - Caterham F1 Team Announce Sibur As First Russian Team Partner http://t.co/geOQkhZr #vr4smallbiz

the impact of petrov on the team?

[p-matt]

Originally Posted by mattt

the impact of petrov on the team?

Clearly.

I wonder if this is the sponsor that took their time to commit?

[Marbot]

Caterham find Russian sponsor, but no Italian ones. Now there's a shock!

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by MichaelH

Trulli performed pretty well through 09 with Toyota and I thought was utterly short-changed ending up at Lotus in the first place given how competitive he (and ditto Glock) had been in that final Toyota.

A decent career that could have been much more, but it was probably time to go.

Toyota was an uninspired mess that never performed and was never going to. The fact they kept employing Ralf & Trulli for all those years should tell you enough. No excuse to spend so much money and get so very little out of it.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

I don't know about Schumacher, though I know his dad owns that German kart track (the name escapes me, begins with a 'K'?) and the fact that both brothers made it through the ranks suggest there was some money there. Also, Michael was helped along by West cigarettes in his early career.

John Button was one of the first people to start spending a lot of money on his son's karting career, especially in cadets. I believe (and I could be wrong) he was one of the first to buy loads of engines, test them and then keep the best - a practice rife in Rotax classes at the moment.

The Schumachers' didn't own Kerpen, someone else did. Michael and Ralf's father was the manager of the track and their mom worked in the canteen or something. The brothers did spend an inordinate amount of time on the track though, particularly Michael, and it certainly stood them well. The money came from elsewhere to support Michael's karting and car career... Ralf's career was underwritten by Michael to a large extent.

John Button put an eye watering amount of money into Jenson during his karting days. They even set up a karting company, Rocket Motorsports. Certainly no shortage of cash there.

David Coulthard was similarly well heeled en route to the top. A huge amount was spent on his karting and junior single seater career by his parents.

[b1ackcr0w]

Sponsor issues to one side for a moment. I think the power steering thing was too much of a distraction for the team.

If it were Alonso or Vettel complaining to their team that the steering wasn't right for them, then you'd have to look at the silverware on the shelf and concede that they might know better and it needed a lot of effort to fix. But in a team like Lotus, there are going to be a bunch of issues where it's only realistic for the expectation to be that the driver is expected to drive around some of the characteristics of the car that aren't suited to the drivers preferences.

[bella]

in relation to that, tony dodgins' piece on trulli is a very well explained history of his career, why the steering thing was an issue, and all that sort of thing. autosport subscribers only again, unfortunately:

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...nt-unrealised/

here's a particularly good quote from it about the steering situation and trulli's driving style:

Originally Posted by mike gascoyne

"I've always said that Jarno's strength is also his biggest weakness. He's the most sensitive driver I've ever worked with. That's what ultimately gives him that extra couple of tenths that he's always had over his team-mates.

"He has fantastic feel for the car, but take that away and he can't drive it. With someone like Fernando, the car can change and he just meatheads it."

i guess it's a no win situation for them. really they should have cut their losses and brought in someone else when it became clear they'd not be able to run the system that suited trulli for a long while last year. not replacing him then undermines their decision to replace him now with petrov, since now they've fixed the problem they've got another driver who doesn't need the fix they spent ages throwing money and design hours at.

bit backwards really.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by bella

in relation to that, tony dodgins' piece on trulli is a very well explained history of his career, why the steering thing was an issue, and all that sort of thing. autosport subscribers only again, unfortunately:

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...nt-unrealised/

here's a particularly good quote from it about the steering situation and trulli's driving style:


i guess it's a no win situation for them. really they should have cut their losses and brought in someone else when it became clear they'd not be able to run the system that suited trulli for a long while last year. not replacing him then undermines their decision to replace him now with petrov, since now they've fixed the problem they've got another driver who doesn't need the fix they spent ages throwing money and design hours at.

bit backwards really.

If you're so sensitive you turn into a moving chicane during the races then I'm afraid it's not much of a strength. You have to be able to adapt to be a good race car driver - Heikki managed. And yeah, they should have cut him last season, maybe not even hired him. Same with Heidfeld, used to be OK but their time is past.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by davyboy

The Schumachers' didn't own Kerpen, someone else did. Michael and Ralf's father was the manager of the track and their mom worked in the canteen or something. The brothers did spend an inordinate amount of time on the track though, particularly Michael, and it certainly stood them well. The money came from elsewhere to support Michael's karting and car career... Ralf's career was underwritten by Michael to a large extent.

John Button put an eye watering amount of money into Jenson during his karting days. They even set up a karting company, Rocket Motorsports. Certainly no shortage of cash there.

David Coulthard was similarly well heeled en route to the top. A huge amount was spent on his karting and junior single seater career by his parents.

Kerpen! That's it, the name has been on the tip of my tongue for days. My apologies, I thought his dad owned it.

Unfortunately motorsport will always be more expensive than other sports. It costs c.£1000-2000 for a second-hand cadet kart and, while that may not be big money in relation to say a BF3 budget, it is considerably more than a pair of football boots or a tennis racquet. The main problem is that once you progress to cars there are no major sponsors or benefactors (unless you personally know them, friend of dad, uncle etc.) to help talented drivers up the ladder.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

If every driver who 'deserves to be in F1' was in F1, the grid would resemble the M25.

This certainly true. Not all drivers want to make it to F1. I've always wanted to race sportscars (professionally, we can all dream) but I can't even find 25% of the budget for a British GT4 seat. Money is tighter than ever, sponsors are cannier than ever ergo those with family wealth prosper, talent fades away.

[Marbot]

I've always maintained that the best F1 driver the UK has is probably driving a white van.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I've always maintained that the best F1 driver the UK has is probably driving a white van.

The law of averages says it's almost certain that the most naturally talented racing driver of all time has never even sat in a go kart, let alone an F1 car.

But motorsport is what it is, and all we can hope is that those who demonstrate world-class talent in the lower formulae get the chance to progress.

[Fiorentina 1]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

If every driver who 'deserves to be in F1' was in F1, the grid would resemble the M25.