How boring can it get?

[Bononi]

Originally posted by 429CJ
At least X-ecutioner is pointing out the obvious, which is SO hard to accept those, who look the races thru Ferrari-red glasses.
And their only response: "don't watch" is both arrogant and pointless, if anyone not liking the current state of Grand Prix racing stops watching the races from tv or attend the races live, well, it's going to be fun to see the faces of Ecclestone, car manufacturers, sponsors and tv companies if that happens.

Fom a non-Ferrari fan, I can't see where it's arrogancy to say to those who doesn't like to stop watching. I would prefer a different F1, certainly back in the '70s and 80's, but still, I love F1.
Isn't it funny, that the Canadian GP has broken records of public, while "everybody" is complaining ? Maybe they're all Tifosi...
But the point is, from a discussion point of view, that is it worth to start threads simply telling people to quit watching F1 because isn't fun anymore ? Or can we add anything REALLY constructive to make the sport and this forum better ?

[429CJ]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
And to those who say they don't watch any more - why are you posting on the F1 Forum?

This is just what I ment.

There's one thing called freedom of speech.

If there's something wrong, shouldn't I speak up, or should I mellow and comfort myself and collaborate: "Formula 1 is better than ever, racing is thrilling, I watch every race, even the bloody free practice sessions barely sitting on the edge of the seat, biting my nails on tension."
and "Schumacher is best thing ever happened to Formula 1, he is second coming of you-know-who, he is Amida Buddha, damn, he's the new David Koresh, who will lead us all to a better place."

[BootsOntheSide]

That's pretty much how I feel 429. I belive it's possible for F1 to be the most exciting, addictive, surprising and relevant form of racing again.

Right now, if something else got equal coverage in the media, it would lose its place on the pedestal well and truly (although looking at MotoGP and Sueprbike attendances, you'd be forgiven for thinking it has - and MotoGP has no British rider in Top 10 contention).

As made apparent by the number of posts and threads on this part of the forum, F1 is sitll the most popular, but this doesn't seem to reflect the actual quality in my view. I can see that there are alot of Indy/bike/NASCAR/Rally/Touring Car/Sportscar fans out there, and these are real growth sports.

For casual viewers, the technology only holds so much interest, as does the soap-opera side of things.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by 429CJ
"Formula 1 is better than ever, racing is thrilling, I watch every race, even the bloody free practice sessions barely sitting on the edge of the seat, biting my nails on tension."

No-one's saying that is the case.

and "Schumacher is best thing ever happened to Formula 1, he is second coming of you-know-who, he is Amida Buddha, damn, he's the new David Koresh, who will lead us all to a better place."

I'm not a fan, but he's certainly the best of today, and one of the best ever.

[Tweed]

It's hardly MS' fault, racing is better on 2 wheels at the moment, but I prefer cars...just! The difference is even if Rossi were still on a Honda and riding off into the distance the racing would still be the best in the world, not the case in F1.

If I had to choose between the 2 if they were on at the same time it'd just be F1, even this season, but if I had to go to a race and spectate it would be MotoGP, last year at Donington they were awesome, they should be paid twice the wages of grand prix drivers!

[300kph]

Like any other sports, F1 has ups and downs and I can live with it no matter what, this is just a part of the process and it can only change for the better now....

To those who are getting bored, I advice you not to go AWOL on this forum so we can atleast inform you what are the progress F1 will be doing....

[jj2728]

Originally posted by 429CJ
At least X-ecutioner is pointing out the obvious, which is SO hard to accept those, who look the races thru Ferrari-red glasses.
And their only response: "don't watch" is both arrogant and pointless, if anyone not liking the current state of Grand Prix racing stops watching the races from tv or attend the races live, well, it's going to be fun to see the faces of Ecclestone, car manufacturers, sponsors and tv companies if that happens.

that's an assumtive statement "those who look thru ferrari red glasses"....and why is it "arrogant and pointless" if some of us say, well, then don't watch?....i am beginning to think that some of you prefer "racing entertainment" ala NASCAR and OWRS with their mandatory pitstops and 'puch to pass' options than the 'racing virtuosity' that Grand Prix racing has always been about....if you are bored, or if you truly believe that ms has destroyed the sport then fine....switch it off...there are and always will be plenty of folk who appreciate the sport for what it is.....the pinnacle......

[codename_47]

Yes I agree that most races are boring these days, but the most annoying thing is, there's not much that can be done about it!

What, ask MS to go a bit slower?
Just because he's the best driver, in the best car, doing the best job every weekend doesn't mean it's boring for him!

I too long for the days when you would turn the channel on and you wouldn't know who was going to win each race, despite who happened to be on pole the day before, where there was unpredictablity and excitement that's in short supply today, and YES, I have begun to wander away from races (which was unthinkable to me before....even during the "bad" 2002 season, I had F1 Digital, which kept it thrilling for me!)

The idea to have BTCC on at the same time as F1 struck me as stupid before, but now it's a masterstroke, since I can watch that for my excitement, but still keep my eye on how my favourite teams/drivers are doing in the F1, shout and curse when again, they're not doing too well, and go back to the Clio's or whatever support race is on Motors TV...

So there's your answer....want excitement...come back in 5 years or so. Or get Motors Tv!

[Panzer]

I have said it before, and I will say it again, we are lucky to be in a time when we can watch two of the greatest, Schumacher and Rossi. Just enjoy it while you can.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by JAG

I can put up with processional racing, but combined with carbon copy chassis and engines, and F1's high and mighty attitude, let alone the 'Silverstone under threat' headlines every other week, the sport has just turned me off.

So the chassis and engines are carbon copies of each other? Then why is there only one team winning?

[Gt_R]

Unfortunately many people have used this case as another avenue to vent their frustration/dislike for Ferrari/MS.

One of the sore points that ruin F1-experience actually comes from "fans" who keep complaining and complaining. Nobody said that this season is the best yet, but for people to just after every race complain and groan just affects the "feel-good" factor and make an average season feel worse than it actually is.

Once again, i'm amused when people want to hold MS/Ferrari responsible for the lack of WDC fight. I think it's a sin to do your job well.

And i'm also confused why people say that F1's poor competition would cause many viewers to crossover to other sports.. last check, F1 and MotoGP don't take place at the same time, so while i'm an F1 fan, it doesn't stop me from watching other series (and that helps to keep my sofa warm).

If watching F1 is causing misery, then why do those critics not just end the sufferings? It's not arrogant..but if i don't like to each veggie...why force myself? It doesn't mean it's spoken through "tinted red glasses" - but the fact is that the negative moaning affects the experience of other fans who wanna enjoy.

[X-ecutioner]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
And to those who say they don't watch any more - why are you posting on the F1 Forum?

What the hell does that mean? I don't have a right to complain just because i don't watch it anymore? As far as i am concerned that gives me even a bigger "reason" to complain. As a "customer" who pays to watch for F1 i have a right to complain about what i like or dislike and what better place than a big motorsport forum to do so. Just like i said, if you agree....fine, if you don't.......fine, no reason for making a big deal out of it. I am not gonna stop posting in the F1 forums so don't get your hopes up!

Originally posted by 429CJ
This is just what I ment.

There's one thing called freedom of speech.

If there's something wrong, shouldn't I speak up, or should I mellow and comfort myself and collaborate: "Formula 1 is better than ever, racing is thrilling, I watch every race, even the bloody free practice sessions barely sitting on the edge of the seat, biting my nails on tension."
and "Schumacher is best thing ever happened to Formula 1, he is second coming of you-know-who, he is Amida Buddha, damn, he's the new David Koresh, who will lead us all to a better place."

Finally! Sanity prevails. That's exactly what i am trying to say. Maybe i put it wrong but my point was not too far from that. Great post.

Unfortunately many people have used this case as another avenue to vent their frustration/dislike for Ferrari/MS.

When you got three times the budget that of other teams, ofcourse other than your fans, an average F1 fan will get frustrated.

If watching F1 is causing misery, then why do those critics not just end the sufferings? It's not arrogant..but if i don't like to each veggie...why force myself? It doesn't mean it's spoken through "tinted red glasses" - but the fact is that the negative moaning affects the experience of other fans who wanna enjoy.

If people wanna assume this season is the best ever, a puny human being like me on a big forum among thousands of other members cannot change their minds. I don't think one member complaining can harm the "feel-good" factor for other fans. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Some people say moto GP is crappy, boring and they don't get it.....that doesn't stop me from watching and thoroughly enjoying the sport. The least people can do is form their opinion on what sport they wanna watch and "Feel good".

[Peter Mallett]

I suspect the point is more the position of not watching F1 anymore. And as such why bother with it? Or are you saying that you'll start watching again if it gets "more exciting"?

The problem then is that you'll have to watch it before you know whether its got exciting again.

Personally I don't like the constant domination of one team. I didn't like it in the 80's with Macaroon and I don't like it now. But that means the excitement comes from watching the others try to catch up. And you can't say that Renault and BAR are doing badly can you? Oops sorry you won't know if you don't watch it will you?

[Super Tourer]

[i]When you got three times the budget that of other teams, ofcourse other than your fans, an average F1 fan will get frustrated.
[/B]

I take it you are referring to Ferrari, in which case they do not have 3 times the budget of their immediate rivals.

In fact the budgets among the 'big' teams are fairly similar, which only goes to show that they could and should be performing better. In anycase as a business Ferrari is small fry compared to automotive giants like Toyota and Mercedes, who have infinitely greater resources at their disposal - should they choose to use them.

2004 Budgets in million dollars - figures from BusinessF1

1. Ferrari - $336M
2. Toyota - $321M
3. McLaren Mercedes - $313M
4. Renault - $301M
5. BMW Williams - $276M
6. BAR Honda - $244M

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Super Tourer

In fact the budgets among the 'big' teams are fairly similar, which only goes to show that they could and should be performing better. In anycase as a business Ferrari is small fry compared to automotive giants like Toyota and Mercedes, who have infinitely greater resources at their disposal - should they choose to use them.

2004 Budgets in million dollars - figures from BusinessF1

1. Ferrari - $336M
2. Toyota - $321M
3. McLaren Mercedes - $313M
4. Renault - $301M
5. BMW Williams - $276M
6. BAR Honda - $244M

Hmm.

I'd take issue with the "fairly similar" remark. But neverthless BAR are certainly doing well on a dollars-per-point basis compared to Toyota, Macaroon and Team Willy.

[Super Tourer]

I should of said within the same range ! I meant that of the top budgets, no team has double the funds of the others...

[Gt_R]

Quote:"When you got three times the budget that of other teams, ofcourse other than your fans, an average F1 fan will get frustrated."

Again...another case of critics don't bother checking their "facts"

Again, i stress that NOBODY who enjoys this season claims that it is the best season in F1 history. The thing is that F1 is more than mere overtaking...there's many interesting aspects to it that even in a race that has less overtaking, there are other aspects to keep people interested.

The only thing that shouldn't happen is the "predictability" of the results. Ferrari/MS being number 1 at every race shouldn't be normal. Even a Ferrari fan knows that something is wrong about F1 when Ferrari wins with ease race in race out...but what is wrong is not Ferrari/MS, but rather the rivals for failing. No point blaming Ferrari/MS or even FIA, because nobody made Mclaren or Williams perform that badly. And honestly those teams have to up their game to bring competition back, not moan about how others do too good a job.

Looking at the WDC/WCC standing and compare it to the Budget ranking, you would realise that money, while increase the possibility, doesn't dictate the success. Sure, it may be used to brush off Ferrari's success, but how does it justify the failure of Williams/Mclaren/Toyota with respect to Renault and BAR?

[Glen]

Originally posted by X-ecutioner
...When you got three times the budget that of other teams, ofcourse other than your fans, an average F1 fan will get frustrated.

I'm sorry mate, but you clearly don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. As has been ponted out by others, the Ferrari budget is similar to several other teams.

[RWC]

Max and bernie will allways have 'fans' watching their **** because some people just don't get it that there are better things to do in life

[Glen]

Originally posted by RWC
Max and bernie will allways have 'fans' watching their **** because some people just don't get it that there are better things to do in life

Present company included it seems, judging by the number of nay-sayers that are spending plenty of time on an F1 forum.

What's with the quote marks around fans?

[Kicking-back]

If you don't like it, don't watch it - simple.

Those who watch it and complain have a basis for suggesting improvements.

Those who don't watch it surely don't!

[DriverT]

Exactly. Nobody is made to watch it. It's not some kind of totalitarian regime.

X-ecutioner, your main problem is not other people spamming your topics, but of you spamming the forum. You slag off other people and expect them to reply in kind. This isn't a BBC forum.
Your claim that you are not contravening the policy of the FAQ is false. Your post

Originally posted by X-ecutioner
That's your reply? That's all you can come up with? I have seen 5 year olds coming up with better comebacks than that expression.

is directly offensive and vulgar. Resorting to insults like this to "spice up" the argument is nonsensical, and insulting someone's intelligence is pretty offensive.

I'm not telling you not to post, but you have to conform to the forum rules. People that come on here and try and squash everyone down to their level get kicked out very quickly.

We all want to be friends here, so at least try to be nice, even if it hurts.

[Spudgun]

To me, the benchmark of boring was 2002, but I still enjoyed watching because I'm an F1 fan. We had a cracking season in 2003 and although 2004 hasn't been quite as good it's still far better than it has been in the recent past.

Personally, I'm actually quite enjoying this season. The emergence of BAR as a force to be reckoned with, Renault still up there and Ferrari beginning to have to work for their victories.

I will always watch F1, just for the cars alone. I find them awe inspiring. With Silverstone being just over an hour drive away for me, I'll go up to tests just to be trackside to see, hear and smell these amazing beasts. OK, so I have developed a nervous twitch everytime MS wins, but that's a small price to pay.

I've been an F1 fan since I was old enough to understand what it actually was and it would be sacrilege if I missed a race!

I know a 'good show' is important, but it's not the be all and end all for me anyway.

[garcon]

I'm still convinced that the only people who say F1 is boring are those whose teams aren't winning. Or are simply so anti-Ferrari that they want to see anyone but Michael winning.

Ferrari have dominated for what? Four or five years? (And there have been significant blips in that period). Not exactly a lifetime is it? The cycle will move on. In the meantime it's up to the other teams to take it to Ferrari and come up with something that counterbalances Ferrari's current advantage in having by far the best driver on the grid.

[markysjag]

cap the spending so all the teams have the same budget and test only at the start of the season and race days, one tyre company, tracks designed for passing and then it would be exiting also prize money for the drivers instead of big fat contracts!