When You Sell Your Soul

[indycool]

Agreed, Tim.......

[Tim Northcutt]

BTW...

I haven't read a single refutation (from the "Hombre" himself, or anyone representing his other series) of any of the items or issues concerning ex-Trans-Am racers or vendors concerning their "dealings" with Mr. Gentilozzi as a person or as a businessman....

and believe me, they read these boards...

and that silence tells its own story, doesn't it????....

The next, and final response I'll make in this thread will be in response to those issues....

and if they are not true, I'll still issue that apology in that post....

But I don't think it will be necessary....

The silence tells me that....

Later.....

[JohnSSC]

I respectfully disagree with the request Tim made, but will abide by the mod's decision here. Got my Slovenian blood going here I guess!

Tim, could you pm me on the Trans-Am thing? I remember reading that thread and can't remember who the team owner was who posted some of what you referred to - it was brought from another forum as I recall.

Thanks.

[Mags]

I'll confirm for you that CC team owners DO read these boards, as I found out in Vancouver. But I don't think you would be too suprised as to which side they are on, indycool, John and Tim. And if you in your wildest dreams think it's TG's, well, erhem, NO.

[Kicking-back]

People who own racing teams would do best not to bother reading any internet discussion boards.

The trouble with the www is it gives anyone with the computer the assumption that their point of view actually means something.

[Mags]

They care about the fans, and I think that's wonderful.

[Kicking-back]

The fans who post on such message boards are only a very small proportion - and not necessarily representative of the general punters...

[JohnSSC]

My point of view means something to me, K-B!

I find it interesting that the owners do peruse the boards on this (and I assume other) forums.

[Kicking-back]

I find it interesting too, and I wasn't saying opinions aren't important, all I'm saying is that in general those of us who post on here can at times think our opinion actually carries more weight than it really does.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by indycool

jspierx, I respect your opinion that you think the Three Amigos are doing the series well. I respectfully disagree for reasons I have stated. I have always been for unification. Without OWRS, that would've happened in January in bankruptcy court. So, my opinion is based on that we wouldn't even be having these discussions if unification had happened in that federal courtroom. And, IMO, the overall sport would be better for it and have a much better chance of spreading its wings. So I'm a bit intolerant of, and have a dislike for, the way the Amigos are conducting themselves toward the IRL and any hope of unification as they continue the CART/CW methodology of making enemies. You can applaud as you like. I can disagree as I like. No problem.

Indycool - WHERE did I say I think the Three Amigos are doing the series well? Did you even read my post, did you just skim it, or did you read it and just not understand it? I said I have NO OPINION on how the Three Amigo are running the series, as I think its too early to tell. I applauded them on saving our series by ponying up the money and stepping up the plate. So please, don't reply to my posts if your going to put words in my mouth.
Second of all, I respectfully disagree with your view on what unification is. Unification is not a rival series going bankrupt and ceasing operations, and the other series continuing on. Had TG won the bidding for CART's assets, that is what would have happened, not unification in my opinion.
You also seem to be under the assumption that the three amigos are the only people who won't agree to a unifacation that has TG running the series. The three amigos are NOT the only people who feel that way. From what I understand that is how most of the current team owners feel, and basically anybody who is directly involved in the operation of OWRS.

[Kicking-back]

Totally fair analysis, jjspeirx.

Some people read things into statements that were never there.

[Mags]

You have that right! jjspeirx, did you ever make it to Vancouver?

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by JohnSSC
So, in response to that, Indycool says poppycock! Indy then goes on to enumerate why.

Now he is told to scamper off to the IRL forum if he doesn't like it. There is, imho, something wrong with that. Isn't the point of a discussion to exchange views however unlikely it may be to change an opinion?

Indycool was never told to scamper off to the IRL forum, I simply provided a link for him to follow if he wished not to read about Paul Gentilozzi and the way he is running OWRS.

Basically what Indycool wrote, was the equivalent of me going into the IRL forum and posting something along the lines of "I hate how you guys talk about TG being so good for the IRL, and about how TG started the series etc....TG is going to ruin the IRL eventually, just watch" Are you trying to tell me if I posted that in the IRL forum I wouldn't be ridiculed and possibly be told to goto the Champcar forum if I didn't want to read anything good about TG? I doubt that.

[Kicking-back]

Why people can't just watch and enjoy both series while we have both is beyond my tiny mind!

[Mags]

And why people come into a Champ Car forum and constantly say "I love both series and why can't we all get along" or "what's wrong with the man that for 8 years has been trying to destroy Champ Cars" and doesn't expect us to get a tad upset is beyond my comprehention.

[racinthestreets]

From jjspierx

Second of all, I respectfully disagree with your view on what unification is. Unification is not a rival series going bankrupt and ceasing operations, and the other series continuing on. Had TG won the bidding for CART's assets, that is what would have happened, not unification in my opinion.

I agree with this totally jjspierx. How can the sale of CART to TG be called unification?:confused: Thanks mods for allowing this thread to continue. I came to 10/10ths because I was looking for any news, any so called rumor, anything I could find about CART during the winter months. Finding the posters of this forum to be knowledgeable and passionate was refreshing and encouraging. Indycool has posted often and I feel that Indycool is entitled to respond to the posts as he feels. I do not agree with his opinion that TG is the Savior, TG is a destroyer and he would have destroyed the CCWS forever if he would have suceeded in the court room. I have said it before, I had respect for Bobby Rahal, his announcement that he wanted to save the jobs of 60+ people and families when he bolted from CCWS at the last minute was surprising to me. Surely he knew that it could have been the nail in the coffin for OWRS and CCWS - how many people would have been out of work had that happened? Therefore, I, of my own free will choose to not respect Mr. Rahal for his justification of his decision. If he was to race in the CCWS again, I would cheer his victories - however, the respect is long gone. I do not hate, too much of that already. BTW Indycool, do not forget the PGA calibar golf course that was constructed under TG's watch at Indy as well.

[Dov]

IMS is more like DisneyLand now then a race track.

[racinthestreets]

And run by Goofy

[Mags]

Originally posted by racinthestreets
And run by Goofy

[Dov]

[indycool]

jspierx, if I misread your post as to your meaning, I apologize and stand corrected. Your applause for what they did and reserving comment on other matters is now clear to me.

My view of "unification" is that it means "one series," not two. No more than that. No exceptions or other qualifications. I use that as my term instead of "merger" or any of the other terms that other people use because all of those other words can carry exceptions and qualifications and I don't mean (or care about) exceptions and qualifications of how they arrive together as one series.

As for Mags' comment about somebody "attempting to destroy Champ Cars for eight years," I remind that they were national championship cars running at Indy long before they became Indy cars running under the CART banner of the PPG Indy Car World Series which included Indy after the first few years of CART's existence and now they're called Champ Cars that don't run at Indy. So just what is it that somebody "attempted to destroy?"

[Mags]

indycool, you darn well know that TG started his series and has done everything he can since to destroy Champ Cars.

[The Snout]

Originally posted by jjspierx
Indycool was never told to scamper off to the IRL forum, I simply provided a link for him to follow if he wished not to read about Paul Gentilozzi and the way he is running OWRS.

Basically what Indycool wrote, was the equivalent of me going into the IRL forum and posting something along the lines of "I hate how you guys talk about TG being so good for the IRL, and about how TG started the series etc....TG is going to ruin the IRL eventually, just watch" Are you trying to tell me if I posted that in the IRL forum I wouldn't be ridiculed and possibly be told to goto the Champcar forum if I didn't want to read anything good about TG? I doubt that.

I agree. I wouldn't have thought either that coming into a series forum, saying it would have been better if that series went bankrupt, and also stating that he doesn't like the people running it or it's direction. Being consistently critical of aspects of the series, and saying it to people who have had 2 years of being told their series is dead and won't be back next year is the way to go. Without being pull up on it.

Mags, agreed, aka 25/8 .

[indycool]

Okay, the IRL provided a competitive environment for CART/OWRS. It provided an alternative view of what "Champ Cars" are. Or what "Indy cars" are. Or whatever. Who copied who goes back to the '79 split and can be argued forever. Without the Indianapolis 500 and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, USAC, CART, OWRS and IRL would not exist or have existed at all. Their roots are at Indy. And in today's competitive environment, do not try to sell for a moment that OWRS isn't trying to compete with the IRL and Indianapolis, too.

[The Snout]

OWRS roots are at Indy ? Hang on there, aren't you saying the other day in the Portland thread that OWRS is a 9 month old company, who business history from CART isn't transferable, who's racing history is 'partly' transferable. If that's your position, then how is a racing series that has never competed at Indy have it's roots at Indy ? Or is it a westernly wind today and we are going to give OWRS the CART heritage of 25 years instead of 9 months.