[FIA GT Race] FIA GT Rnd 8: Istanbul 2005

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by JAG

I wouldn't touch a GT1 car that could not race in ACO events. What happens if FIA GT drops out of favour with teams, were are the Maserati teams going to race?

True, but IMO that isnt likely to happen. FIA GT looks like it will be strong for 2006, most of the teams competing in the series now will be next year, if not all, and of course we will have BMS returning to the championship and GPLK running 2 C6'R's, (as reported by Autosport) at least they have put orders in for them for 2006 and I beleive Cirtek are expanding to 2 cars next year, and Labre want to too.

As for 2007, well if it 2006 goes well then perhaps we will have a "World Championship" if thats the case Id not be suprised to see more teams enter the series, people like Acemco and Corvette Racing and Aston Martin etc. Could they afford to NOT be in a GT World Championship? FIA GT will hopefully next year have LIVE coverage for all events next year, if not then most will be, part of the 2hr format change is because of Eurosport saying that they wont cover all the races LIVE if the races are still 3 hours, another reason though is to cut costs, 3 hour races of course means less tires, less fuel, and less engine re builds, all of this will help to keep budgets down to a sensible level as the series adds more rounds to its calender.

FIA GT has gone from strength to strength from 2000 onwards IMO and I see no reason why that trend wont continue. Okay it might not continue to progress as quickly as it has done in recent years but as long as it does continue to go forwards rather than backwards, and after all didnt we all know that the series would eventually slow down in terms of expansion? As a series gets more and more professional the harder it gets to make better.

Id be suprised if we didnt see the MC12's in the FIA GT championship in 2 or 3 years time, after that who knows? But a 3 or 4 year life span is IMO perfectly acceptable.

[TheNewBob]

Not all the current cars have lifespans as long as your predicting for the MC12 - Cars such as the Ferrari 550, Saleen S7, and the Lister Storm are not exactly at their peak anymore, and with the pain in the arse that the 575 seems to have proven to be, it mostly leaves us with an Aston versus Maserati versus Corvette privateer battle.

Yes, it's a battle we've wanted to see for a while, but if in a couple of years those are the only 3 types of car left (after the proposed GT1 and GT2/3 split) then isn't that going to be reminiscent to some of the '99/2000 period where we had just Porsches and Vipers and 2 Listers filling the entire grid? The professionalism may have increased but if variety is effected then it'll start losing fans.

Definitely one of the reasons I've found FIA GT great over the past couple of years is due to the variety involved. Yes I'm thinking of only a possible sceptical scenario which has flaws, but I'm only going to wait and see before being convinced that the series is going in the right direction.

[Graham Goodwin]

Saleen - I'm sure if i looked back we would see the very same predictions being made for 2005 - big car counts in GT1 and GT2 etc etc - the facts are that the package is expensive and has been disastrously bad in GT2 all year. the GT1 numbers have been heading south throughout the season and it is VERY early to be talking about good signs for 2006!

[The Badger]

9 and 12 laps for Konrad ! What has that team got to do to get some good luck .I wish them all the best but I sincerly feel that they are flogging a dead horse unless they have a Saleen that is the same spec as Acemco .

That 575 was looking good .

[eddsc]

The series has been going from strength to strength? How do you explain that comment - and the fact that it has arrived at a position where it has 19 entries?
Two hour races make it cheaper, is that what you're saying? No, they don't - if you can't get a third driver along to drive for 35 mins. And anyway, a set of tyres and a little more wear and tear on the car are inconsequential: if you're there for two, you might as well do three.
Sorry, had to address those points, at least. Oh, and you've got the TV business all wrong too.
The races have to be 3 hours next year, to allow teams to use 3 paying drivers - so no Eurosport as I understand it.
MC

[TheNewBob]

It's been difficult enough already, then, getting sponsors to cough up as much dough as they have already done, never mind one less pay-driver - eddsc I gotta agree there

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

They were expecting 20000 today but unfortunately there something like 5000. In fact, on a really hot day like this I am really surprised that so many people are willing to suffer for so many hours under the sun.

Official stats from FIA (after the race) state 21,000. Maybe they were hiding from the live TV cameras.

[JAG]

Stick to the sports routes, longer race distances, the need to accomodate amateur drivers etc. and your series will have a solid base to build on.

If TV exposure, increasing professionalism follow, all well and good.

Just don't change the sport to chase these 'dreams'.

[Dani Filth]

agree with JAG .. three drivers for a 2h race . no point in that .and you need 3 drivers just to pay the car .. and you have no chance to get any result in a 2h race . just look at Peter .

[Mal]

Watching that race yesterday made me realise how good LMES has become.

[Asa]

I think it is quite a difficult one to call.

If FIA GT goes 2 hours with live TV coverage, like Super GT does in Japan, it has the potential to become hugely popular and all the teams and drivers will get sponsors and/or full works support.

Staying with the 3 hours format, it is not possible to have live TV (at least not from Eurosport) and the series will remain as it is and live or die by the pay drivers.

Of course, maybe Ratel is able to arrange live TV and stick to 3 hours. But honestly 3 hours of live coverage on any channel is not easy. Both F1 and soccer are packaged as 2 hours of live TV and they aren't doing too badly.

[FIRE]

A 3 hour race and a 2 hour live coverage on Eurosport? First a short summary of the first hour and the rest of the race live.

[Bernard Bram]

That's to complicated for Euro****. And probably too expensive as well, since they would have to invest into something like editing know how.

[Bramzel]

Organisations might like this 2-hour concept, a vast majority of the teams is against it.

[Garp]

Can't they meet somewere in the middle
Reduce the fuel capacity to 70 ltr to allow for 45 minutes stints and
set the racelength to 2h15 minutes.

But if the SuperGT formula will work for FIAgt?????
I don't think so. SuperGT is the Japanese DTM. The backing comes
from the big car manufacturers. with brands that can be bought by everyone.

That's why only Corvette manages to enter a fulltime factory efford in GT racing.
Every other GT manufacturer is from an exclusive brand. Saleen, Aston, Ferrari
, Lambo , etc... Those company's have less marketing budget. A series based on
exclusive brands can't be based on works entries and need primairaly gentleman drivers.

I think we need more GT from common car brands like the Corvette, Honds NSX
Toyota Supra, etc.. To make GT racing full professional. Maybe Audi can enter their
R10, BMW M6, Mercedes SLR, etc..

But how succesfull are the commonbrand supercars? The Supra and NSX are over.
I think GT racing will always be Gentleman racing. Or those rich guys should start
buying commonbrand supercars. Or us common people should start buying exotics.

[TheNewBob]

The problem with inviting more "common" car brands comes when the likes of Aston Martin or Ferrari or Lamborghini see the shock of their car, in a series originally designed for exotic cars, being beaten by a Honda...? It would be OK if Honda were racing a prototype, but... in a GT series? If you move goalposts too much then you can risk losing your "core" members sometimes, as a result.

[Asa]

I think FIA GT should try to move towards professional racing and professional teams. The gentleman drivers should go for the LMES, they get more driving time in the longer LMES races anyway.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

The problem with inviting more "common" car brands comes when the likes of Aston Martin or Ferrari or Lamborghini see the shock of their car, in a series originally designed for exotic cars, being beaten by a Honda...? It would be OK if Honda were racing a prototype, but... in a GT series? If you move goalposts too much then you can risk losing your "core" members sometimes, as a result.

A Honda NSX is definitely an exotic in my book. I see what you mean though, because I agree on you on that when it comes to Supra's or RX7/8's.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Asa

I think FIA GT should try to move towards professional racing and professional teams. The gentleman drivers should go for the LMES, they get more driving time in the longer LMES races anyway.

I agree, and I think this is what is happening slowly but surely. The top teams in the LMES IMO are not as good as the top teams in FIA GT, at least in the GT1 class that is.

[JAG]

2004 LMES Champions Labre

2005 LMES Champions BMS

IMO its not possible for FIA GT to move to ever more professional teams/driver line-ups, precisely because it is the pay drivers that help to fund many of the programs.

Afterall there are no factory teams on the horizon.

[SALEEN S7R]

Vitaphone IMO are a more professional team than BMS and Labre put together. Sure Labre are good, but really they are a fairly small team with a limited budget, BMS are slightly bigger but again are limited by needing pay drivers. People like Vitaphone and JMB do not need pay drivers as they are running in FIA GT and are top teams in the series therefore getting big sponsorship money from both Vitaphone and Red Bull.

[Splendid Cat]

You dont need money to be professional as an organisation. Its how you operate. Laurence Pearce is one that comes to mind. He, relatively speaking, doesn't have much money right now compared to others but the way he operates is a model of professionalism to all.

JMB do have pay drivers btw - Buncombe / Rusinov / Artam / Kuteman. Without Philip Peter the team would be a bit short of money this year too.

[Asa]

Originally Posted by JAG

Afterall there are no factory teams on the horizon.

That's because they are not allowed. If FIA GT is to become a world championship then I think it needs works teams.

It will be great just to see works Chevrolet, Aston Martin and Maserati (GT1); also Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati and Spyker (GT2) race each other in FIA GT with state-of-the-art GT cars, and then we can have gentleman drivers with proven second hand machinery in the LMES.

Right now the FIA GT and LMES are competing for the same market.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Asa

Right now the FIA GT and LMES are competing for the same market.

Exactly, if FIA GT opens up its rules to allow factory teams into the series this would set it apart from the LMES/ALMS. If the FIA GT championship allowed in factory teams potentially we could have factory teams from Aston Martin, Corvette, Panoz, Spyker, Maserati and Porsche. A good list of manufacturers IMO, you could also have a privateers cup for teams such as Vitaphone, JMB, G.P.C. Konrad, GNM etc.

But then Ratel has said earlier this year that factory teams will not be allowed in GT2 next season and that those teams running with works drivers will be penalised accordingly.

[TheNewBob]

My only worry is that with full factory teams the rate of development and progress could be phenominal. The likes of Lister, Spyker and Panoz, basically the smaller companies, would quickly fall way behind.

Then you'd have car updates flowing into the LMES, making that more and more competitive, even with gentleman drivers, and also the risk of factory teams favouring particular privateer outfits with more updates than the rest, and it all too quickly becomes a little too risky for my liking.

Even if only for the variety, we'll still need these smaller companies, which in GT1 would include Lister, Saleen and Lamborghini. With factory teams, they'd be driven away to the LMES and we'd only see maybe 3 or 4 different types of car in FIA GT - something which might start turning fans away.

Always remember with caution about factory teams - it can very quickly turn ugly.