wsbr - zolder

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by pimbopap

2) The crew of the track is as well not as professional like when you go into a F1 circuit

I beg to differ on this matter. I know for a fact that part of the crew at the Bahrain GP were tourists that just had a brilliant idea of signing up for it.

also, some of the Zolder crew have F1-experience (as they have some sort of steward exchange with Hungaroring, and other F1-tracks). also, there is a lot of racing at Zolder, so the crew does have the experience

[Eddy V]

View from a tired Observer who had the big Saturday crash last year and saw many other flaws in this year's shamble:

Renault should take their fancy little brainless drivers, rent a 10.000 mile long straight and let them loose, maybe those little boys should be able to behave then.
And maybe Renault should get some decent people to run their show, not the French-Spanish connection in conjunction with Mr Delettre from Spa.

Not defending Zolder: but put brainless prats in a car and mayhem will happen. Remember the first races last year.
'nough said.

Both marshals are okay-ish with cuts and bruises, they even went to see Parente afterwards with no bad feelings.

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

i suppose the point of taking the fastest lap off a driver instead of the relevant one done under yellow is as a slightly greater punishment, but surely the problem is education, not punishment?

The timing monitors the teams have on the pit wall should have informed them when the yellow flags were out and they should have notified the drivers by radio. The only argument against all times set under yellow flags being disallowed is if the incident had occurred after the drivers(s) in question had passed through the sector where it happened. However, as you say, to lose one's fastest lap (or more than one, perhaps) is a greater punishment. Unfortunately, you will only educate by imposing a punishment that hurts. Fines are a waste of time.

Originally Posted by bella

in parente's defence, he did look to lose control of the car very early coming into the chicane, and it was very greasy, but i'm not sure why that would make his situation any less... naughty.

Parente is smart enough to have backed off for the yellows, but seemingly not by enough. It sounds as though the conditions throughout the day were difficult. Robbie Kerr managed to spin off on the formation lap for race 2...

Montoya did the same in Australia and also spun behind the safety car during the race, so these things happen. Drivers are not perfect, and it seems that on this occasion the race event and organisation wasn't great either, but who gets punished for that?

[play mate]

Kerr had a mechanical failure that sent him spinning mid corner during his out lap before he joined the grid.

[GM Man]

Fact:

Q2 was disaster on Renaults part. Like stated above, drivers who "left the track" (two wheels outside the track limit) got their fastest lap taken from them. Important to know is it was not (in nearly all cases) the fastest lap where driver cut or went off the track.

Some drivers got their fastest lap dissallowed due to going off the track on their out or first flying lap (not even gaining time). Rossiter was one of these unluckies. His pole lap was genuine and now flags; yellow or red.

This led up to a meeting between all of the team managers and drivers 30 min before the race where Renault stated they did not know which lap drivers had been of the track, just that they had been of the track and there would be no time to protest or correct the grid. There was swearing, raised voices and no one was happy with the outcome.

Hopefully this will not happen again.

[pimbopap]

Originally Posted by marcel82

I beg to differ on this matter. I know for a fact that part of the crew at the Bahrain GP were tourists that just had a brilliant idea of signing up for it.

also, some of the Zolder crew have F1-experience (as they have some sort of steward exchange with Hungaroring, and other F1-tracks). also, there is a lot of racing at Zolder, so the crew does have the experience

I don't want to say that everyone is unprofessional and I don't want at all to be offensive with people that work with big passion: but when you see a car (Soucek) out in gravel for 4-5 laps it is easy to make a comparison with lots of venues where you see that car away before the next lap (maybe it is a question of means available too). Anyway this situation can be normal and acceptable just in testing not when a limited number of laps is allowed. About Bahrein: OK no rule is exception free...

[pimbopap]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

View from a tired Observer who had the big Saturday crash last year and saw many other flaws in this year's shamble:
.............................................................................................
Both marshals are okay-ish with cuts and bruises, they even went to see Parente afterwards with no bad feelings.

First of all I'm very happy to know that evryone is safe.
Second I hope Parente will be punished like Maldonado and others last year in Monaco that would be a matter of fairness and equity.
I believe that Renault is doing a job that maybe is not perfect but they run a show that brought 670 000 people on tracks last season and they have a grid of 30 cars with a really relevant budget that to me means something.
About the drivers I partially agree, the torubles came out last year and this year again because it is the first race and all of them are mega excited: after Moncao where just one accident, in reality not even so big, later on nothing else unnormal for racing happened. But let me say that if we were in Silverstone, Magny-Cours or Montmelo it would not have been the same.

[bella]

Originally Posted by nev

There were flashing yellow lights on the bridge way before the chicane !!
if this is where your on about

that's the one, i didn't get a chance to walk the full circuit properly so wasn't sure.

would it be fair to say the wsbr cars are too "big" (in terms of power and to a point, physical size) for the zolder track? in the same way say, modern f1 cars are too big and fast for monaco.

[nev]

I do think your right in both cases but as far as Monaco, F1 uses it to raise its Bling factor. Its where we all sit at home and think - look at those selebs getting to walk the pits especially when alot of them dont even support the sport.

as hopefully a final thought i would like Renault to have rules that are known to all and are upheld with strong penalties, be consistant and dont deviate.
If you brake the rules you get punished, wether it be using to many laps in qualifying or not responding to flags.
At least teams will know where they stand and the organisers will gain respect rather than being branded as bumbling idiots.

[Francis Albert]

Originally Posted by nev

as hopefully a final thought i would like Renault to have rules that are known to all and are upheld with strong penalties, be consistant and dont deviate.
(...)
At least teams will know where they stand and the organisers will gain respect rather than being branded as bumbling idiots.

Couldn't agree more! It seems to be the general feeling in the FR2.0 paddock.

[bella]

agreed. how difficult can it be to find an efficient qualifying system and a set of "don't do this or..." rules. everyone else can manage it, and it's not like it's a new series.

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by bella

agreed. how difficult can it be to find an efficient qualifying system

I hear from Max & Bernie that it's pretty hard.

. everyone else can manage it, and it's not like it's a new series.

it started last year.
ok, it took over from the Nissan World Series, but that wasn't a very old series to begin with, and Renault had to change the rules

[bella]

i think gp2 managed it nicely...

[pimbopap]

Originally Posted by marcel82

I hear from Max & Bernie that it's pretty hard.

......................................................................................,
and Renault had to change the rules

I don't want to play the role or the Renault lawyer at all, but it seems that
everyone is forgetting a very important parameter: 30 cars are not the 18-22 of the Nissan series (top of 24) and even not the 26 of GP2.
About this ask drivers thatwere involved in the "golden" age of F3000 whne they were paying 1 000 000 $ to drive 45' of free practice and a qualy to be excluded.... for a total of maybe 5000 Km in a season.

For the older ones: maybe somebody remembres the pre-qualy in F1 when there were 30 or 32 cars to go in qualy with 26 and race in Monaco with 20...