Meaningfull Rallycross Discussion

[RXfan]

As far as TV coverage is concerned then I thought last years Superprix gave a true picture of the event and showed that rallycross is still great for TV (helped by some great racing) though half an hour was way to short. From what I saw of last years BRC on the box the coverage wasnt great, a distinct lack of cameras and only the finals shown. Surely the whole event should be filmed so that any incidents or exciting heats could be shown, and give the viewer a real picture of the event.

[Cryos]

Originally Posted by leonidas

Div.1 was a bit thin on the ground but no worse than some recent full Irish championship rounds.

A bold statement, to be honest if you look at the amount of irish competing in brxc supercar you lads would be in the same situation.

Like think about it...

Carnegie
McCluskey
Tracey
Evans
Jobb.

We do make up the majority of the supercar numbers day in day out.

[Steve Gibson]

Originally Posted by leonidas

You can have a decent meeting in February though - the Open Championship had its first meeting in February this year and there was a reasonable crowd and entry - especially as it was the first proper winter meeting for a few years. Div.1 was a bit thin on the ground but no worse than some recent full Irish championship rounds.

(QUOTE=rxie) The key thing is that there is not much competition from other motorsport in this period - something to consider if you want the sport to expand in the long term and get the all important TV exposure.

A bold statement, to be honest if you look at the amount of Irish competing in brxc supercar you lads would be in the same situation.

Like think about it...

Carnegie
McCluskey
Tracey
Evans
Jobb.

We do make up the majority of the supercar numbers day in day out.

BICHING ALERT!!!!

We only do constructive discussion on this thread as we realy don't care where the drivers come from!
? Div 1/Supercar at Irish rounds, have there been many? or have they been a bit thin on the ground ? and if so is it because like the ROC the Irish Championship has started early that the Div 1 / Supercar Drivers did not wake up early enough to get sorted

[Cryos]

I am well aware of the rules steve, look under my alias....

Its a statement that needs defended all the time, The Irish Championship seems to be kicked in the nuts to make the british look almighty on a regular basis.

Move along nothing to see here

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by Steve Gibson

BICHING ALERT!!!!

Can this be made into a smilie ?
And the first person to get it is a moderator !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mod]Careful[/mod]

[Cryos]

Originally Posted by Steve Gibson

We only do constructive discussion on this thread as we realy don't care where the drivers come from!
? Div 1/Supercar at Irish rounds, have there been many? or have they been a bit thin on the ground ? and if so is it because like the ROC the Irish Championship has started early that the Div 1 / Supercar Drivers did not wake up early enough to get sorted

Steve can you wake up and smell the coffee, how many of the irish supercars are div one compliant ? The fact of the matter is the vast majority of the supercars are! The only few who arnt would be Derek Job and Mr. Gibson. The Morris Cars are Div 1 Compliant.

The Irish Championship starts earlyer and finishes around the same time as the british; You always seem to forget that over november and December there is Rallysprints in Mondello that some of the supercar drivers do attend. You also have to take into the concideration that alot of people are changing cars or getting their cars overhauled.

I do not find your post constructive it is more Destructive as i fell as an irish driver that you are ripping off on my championship, that cannot be constructive if there is no Positives come out of it. A constructive argument has bad and good points.

There is a hell of alot of irish drivers and teams look at this forum and they feel the same as i about your post.

When you guys can come over to mondello and tell me that we are not needed for your round of the british championship and you can fill numbers for your event then i will submit to your point.

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by rxie

Steve can you wake up and smell the coffee, how many of the irish supercars are div one compliant ? The fact of the matter is the vast majority of the supercars are! The only few who arnt would be Derek Job and Mr. Gibson. The Morris Cars are Div 1 Compliant.

The Irish Championship starts earlyer and finishes around the same time as the british; You always seem to forget that over november and December there is Rallysprints in Mondello that some of the supercar drivers do attend. You also have to take into the concideration that alot of people are changing cars or getting their cars overhauled.

I do not find your post constructive it is more Destructive as i fell as an irish driver that you are ripping off on my championship, that cannot be constructive if there is no Positives come out of it. A constructive argument has bad and good points.

There is a hell of alot of irish drivers and teams look at this forum and they feel the same as i about your post.

When you guys can come over to mondello and tell me that we are not needed for your round of the british championship and you can fill numbers for your event then i will submit to your point.

*****ING ALERT!!!! Whats your problem? This was a sensible thread.

[Mod]Two posts and you've added nothing[/mod]

[Steve Gibson]

Originally Posted by rxie

Steve can you wake up and smell the coffee, how many of the Irish supercars are div one compliant ? The fact of the matter is the vast majority of the supercars are! The only few who are not would be Derek Job and Mr. Gibson. The Morris Cars are Div 1 Compliant.

The Irish Championship starts earlier and finishes around the same time as the British; You always seem to forget that over November and December there is Rallysprints in Mondello that some of the supercar drivers do attend. You also have to take into the consideration that alot of people are changing cars or getting their cars overhauled.

I do not find your post constructive it is more Destructive as i fell as an Irish driver that you are ripping off on my championship, that cannot be constructive if there is no Positives come out of it. A constructive argument has bad and good points.

There is a hell of a lot of Irish drivers and teams look at this forum and they feel the same as i about your post.

When you guys can come over to mondello and tell me that we are not needed for your round of the British championship and you can fill numbers for your event then i will submit to your point.

rxie
You have got the wrong end of the stick
I quoted Div 1 / Supercar as the various championships call them one or the other and was not saying who had what specification car.
I am not having a go at anyone, someone said that the Irish championship did not have many of these cars so far this year I asked if the championship was lacking them due to them not being sorted soon enough.
I have not "ripped" into anything if you go back and read my previous post you may realise what i was saying and there is no way at this time any championship/ promoter including Irish, BRXC or ROC is in any position to say that competitors are not needed and I very much doubt that it will ever be that way.
So read the posts carefully, consider them and then reply in a constructive manner.

[RXfan]

Oh no a 3 way split in rallycross!
In all honesty without the Irish, rallycross I fear would have died 4 or 5 years ago and even now the BRC would not be half as strong as it is but you guys should be proud that you come over here and give us a pretty good spanking at almost every round.
Anymore Irish drivers looking at coming into the sport? I heard at the superprix last year there were a few taking an interest.

[Cryos]

Originally Posted by chessmsport

*****ING ALERT!!!! Whats your problem? This was a sensible thread

Its a sensible thread untill someone gets ripped off.

PM Sent Check your inbox

Originally Posted by Steve Gibson

You have got the wrong end of the stick
I quoted Div 1 / Supercar as the various championships call them one or the other and was not saying who had what specification car.
I am not having a go at anyone, someone said that the Irish championship did not have many of these cars so far this year I asked if the championship was lacking them due to them not being sorted soon enough.
I have not "ripped" into anything if you go back and read my previous post you may realise what i was saying and there is no way at this time any championship/ promoter including Irish, BRXC or ROC is in any position to say that competitors are not needed and I very much doubt that it will ever be that way.
So read the posts carefully, consider them and then reply in a constructive manner.

PM Sent Check your inbox

Originally Posted by rxfan

Oh no a 3 way split in rallycross!
In all honesty without the Irish, rallycross I fear would have died 4 or 5 years ago and even now the BRC would not be half as strong as it is but you guys should be proud that you come over here and give us a pretty good spanking at almost every round.
Anymore Irish drivers looking at coming into the sport? I heard at the superprix last year there were a few taking an interest.

this is true! To be honest at the moment i havnt really heard of anyone, i know back when it was rss that there was a few drivers showed interest but at the time because of development costs with cars or life matters it never materialised.

[Steve Gibson]

Okay everyone read this

[Mod] Nope I don't think we will. PM's are private and we don't need you to tell us what you've done or what we need to do.[/Mod]

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by rxie

Its a statement that needs defended all the time, The Irish Championship seems to be kicked in the nuts to make the british look almighty on a regular basis.

Oops - I'm away from the board for a couple of days and one of my throwaways comments has resulted in it all kicking off!! Sorry!

I was just making the point that there is a perception that the Irish championship can run successful winter events whereas people in Britain won't support domestic winter events. The reality is that this year we've seen decent winter events both sides of the Irish sea so let's hope that can continue. I think everyone in the UK realises we would be much poorer without Irish support for UK rallycross.

[Steve Gibson]

It seems that some of my comments re the IRXC have upset a few people. My reply to a comment that there had not been many Div1/Supercars ( i used both terms as different series/championships class them as one or the other) and I asked if there was a lack of them was it due to them (the cars) not been sorted (ready) in time. We know that a few are still in development and rebuild, however it seems that it was taken as an attack on the IRXC, which was not what was intended. So if any one feels Insulted by what I said I apologise
Shall we continue.

[chris cake]

Ok so what are the views of you guys of running a winter series around the country? With a champion at the end!
Perhaps over 4-5 rounds.

[flying flynn]

Winter series are great if they are easy to do, I would suggest a max of 3 rounds. Even 2, its easier for people to commit to it. 5 rounds would put a lot off, its off season time, family need to see you, then you disappear for 5 weekends again.
Motorsport is expensive and time consuming, keep it simple and less rounds, you get more entries.
just my opinion, Pat#

Think back to Stock hatch when we were at it Chris and it was cheap, as cars were pretty equal, very simple, you just drove them hard.
I stopped when they allowed fancy suspension, i hate spending money to be equal.
Develop drivers not cars in the junior formulas
Pat

[leonidas]

Would be really good to see a winter series again but there is a lot to be said for starting with just three rounds. Start with the Superprix meeting in November - then perhaps a mid January meeting and then one in late February? Maybe offer a slightly reduced entrance fee or something for the January one or for people who do all three rounds?

[Cryos]

Originally Posted by chris cake

Ok so what are the views of you guys of running a winter series around the country? With a champion at the end!
Perhaps over 4-5 rounds.

It was discussed at a bit of depth in the irish rallycross forum this year, alot of drivers were of the opinion that the championship should revert to its previous schedule (over winter), as you know the championship dates are already set out.

It could be possible that you may see a Winter schedule start to come around to some championships, it obviously dosnt suit all..

Personally i think winter series is a good idea, if its as anyway as popular as the Sprints are here over xmas it will be a blinder.

[JAG]

I've just watched the first round of the ROC frm Croft and it was pretty sad.

I'm a huge fan of the Superprix, the TV coverage was fantastic, very entertaining, but the opening ROC round will have turned away potential fans, especially the Div1 competition.

If the rallycross world cannot see the wood for the trees, and refuses to unite for the good of the sport, well, they deserve all they get.

I'll spend my money elsewere, returning once a year for the Superprix.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by JAG

I've just watched the first round of the ROC frm Croft and it was pretty sad.

To be fair the TV coverage didn't do it justice. There was a lot of competitive racing especially in revivals in particular. Several Div.1 cars had problems at the meeting, some didn't turn up because their cars weren't ready and some absences were no doubt for 'political' reasons.

I am sure the vast majority of the rallycross world wants to see a unified series. In some ways I think it would have been better if the MSA had refused to award an MSA championship contract until there was a unified series supported by everyone and running (at least in part) to recognised international regs. It would have given everyone the wake up call they need. Breakaway series are never good for the sport but the BRDA must share responsibility for that situation.

For god's sake if Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley can work with each other surely ROC and BRDA can sort something out!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by leonidas

To be fair the TV coverage didn't do it justice. There was a lot of competitive racing especially in revivals in particular. Several Div.1 cars had problems at the meeting, some didn't turn up because their cars weren't ready and some absences were no doubt for 'political' reasons.

I am sure the vast majority of the rallycross world wants to see a unified series. In some ways I think it would have been better if the MSA had refused to award an MSA championship contract until there was a unified series supported by everyone and running (at least in part) to recognised international regs. It would have given everyone the wake up call they need. Breakaway series are never good for the sport but the BRDA must share responsibility for that situation.

For god's sake if Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley can work with each other surely ROC and BRDA can sort something out!

It's rallycross's loss, there are plenty of other series that don't treat fans so shoddily.

If they spread themselves too thinly, and only put on two or three attractive events a season, why should anyone bother to attend or cover the others!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by JAG

I'll spend my money elsewere, returning once a year for the Superprix.

Being a bit picky here, but if everyone did that the Superprix wouldn't exist anyway.

However the point is well made that unless the organisers get themselves "organised" entries will be diluted.

What amazes me is the amount of money some of the teams spend on their cars. The level of preparation is very professional and if I were them I'd be concerned that the exposure is mainly due to disagreements rather than the sport itself.

A winter series is a great idea, that after all is the reason Rally Cross exists. In fact why not make it a winter sport again?

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by JAG

It's rallycross's loss, there are plenty of other series that don't treat fans so shoddily.

Agree Jag - some of us have been saying this for a long time! But bear in mind there are some great rallycross series in France, Belgium, Holland, Portugal, Scandinavia. There is a great European championship - well worth a weekend away! And rallycross is growing elsewhere. A mate of mine was even thinking about the national series in Turkey! Don't abandon the sport because the British set-up is a political mess.

A possible solution? How about running the British championship in the months April to September and the Open championship over the period October to March? It means the Open gets some unfavourable winter dates but there is much less competition for tv time that time of year so they could probably get a more favourable tv contact. AND they could run some events joint with the Irish championship.

What do people think?

[mivec]

Originally Posted by leonidas

Don't abandon the sport because the British set-up is a political mess.

It's not only a mess over there...

An example: in 2006 the Belgian Championship title was open for Belgian drivers only. (other drivers could take part but not be champion)
After a few races the rules where changed. Foreign drivers could also be champion. All this in favour of one Dutch driver. (No name but it's a Ford Focus ERC driver)

[M.Lowe]

I think it would be very doubtful for a winter seies as like what has been said before at the end of the BRC, ROC and IRXC people are re prepping or having new cars built for the next season.

Also if a witer series was to be run then I think the organisers would have to rely again on rally car classes to try and fill up entries


I know DDMC had a Winter Series years ago but some events where struggling for entries
Best off just having what above and see how they go.

Regarding the First round ROC on TV I was there with Silver Bullet and to watch from the trackside was far more spectacular than the TV coverage, but it was better than nothing.

Commentator Larry Carter sounded like he was bored half way through the programme.Bring back Arthur D

[Peter Mallett]

Yep tv can make or break an event.

Good points about the availabilty of cars though. That may be a product of the regs though. Kieth Ripp's mini was pretty unsophisticated. These days folks want modified cars as sophisticated as a formula pne car, which in turn means more maintenance.