Driver Nico vs Michael - Page 31

Knowlesy · 2 Aug 2010, 07:54 (Ref:2737982)

No, I well remember the acclaim Senna received after Estoril 1988.

ralf fan · 2 Aug 2010, 07:56 (Ref:2737985)

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau1

There was enough room.

Super Hans · 2 Aug 2010, 08:56 (Ref:2738015)

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamwilkinson

He left a cars width plus a fraction more, can clearly see daylight between the wheels and wall.

That's alright then.

Personally I think it's a bit rude to close the gap when there's someone in it.

Knowlesy · 2 Aug 2010, 09:18 (Ref:2738031)

It is OK to drive a competitor into the stands as long as you make only one move remember.

A stupid rule that needs abolished, been saying that years.

Marbot · 2 Aug 2010, 09:23 (Ref:2738033)

There seems to be a lot of stupid rules in F1 where you might think that common sense would suffice. Unfortunately common sense and competitive nature aren't mutually compatible.

**Born Racer** · 2 Aug 2010, 10:21 (Ref:2738083)

Ross Brawn's explanation as to why a seven-time world champion is driving so craply: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85823

jab · 2 Aug 2010, 10:33 (Ref:2738087)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

It is OK to drive a competitor into the stands as long as you make only one move remember.

A stupid rule that needs abolished, been saying that years.

But a rule's a rule, isn't it? Regardless of whether it's "stupid" or not

**Born Racer** · 2 Aug 2010, 10:45 (Ref:2738093)

I can't speak for Knowlesy, but I'm guessing he's pointing out that it's no good drivers following the 'one-move' rule as Schumacher did yesterday and then making a reckless move which puts both drivers in such a dangerous position, i.e. the rule Schumacher fell foul of yesterday which he was penalised for, something like 'impeding another driver from overtaking unfairly'.

Knowlesy · 2 Aug 2010, 10:49 (Ref:2738095)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

But a rule's a rule, isn't it? Regardless of whether it's "stupid" or not

Yes, a rule is a rule unfortunately.

To the point where ethics and etiquette are secondary.

Schummy · 2 Aug 2010, 10:50 (Ref:2738097)

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau1

There was enough room. There wasn't a crash. He didn't kill or seriously injure Rubens. Whilst I think the move was somewhat dodgy, I think people are talking about it in the extreme.
Its certainly not the worst move I've seen Michael pull off or Rubens for that matter...

So the Coyote was not trying to kill Road Runner, always there was room, RR was not killed or injured, in fact he was always smiling. Strange theory.

Michael is searching new low territories. He never was a good sportsman , but now trying those kind of maneuvers while fighting for 10th places is sad/pathetic. In Canada we saw someones of this kind, but this was the worst so far this season.

Those other younger drivers are faster and don't endanger other fellow drivers. Come on Michael, take your money and retire before you sit someone in a wheelchair.

jab · 2 Aug 2010, 11:59 (Ref:2738128)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

the rule Schumacher fell foul of yesterday which he was penalised for, something like 'impeding another driver from overtaking unfairly'.

What a stupid rule that is, though. Are we just going to take that to the nth degree and have a situation like the IRL where no defending is allowed at all? Who's to decide what is and isn't fair

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Yes, a rule is a rule unfortunately.

To the point where ethics and etiquette are secondary.

Yes but you should always expect that in professional sport

The rules need to be either rewritten or clarified. It's all well and good them punishing Michael but if they let anyone else get away with something similar, then it just proves that this was a decision made on personal grounds rather than on what actually happened

Knowlesy · 2 Aug 2010, 12:09 (Ref:2738131)

I very much doubt anyone will get away with something like that. It was vile.

ralf fan · 2 Aug 2010, 12:35 (Ref:2738147)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

What a stupid rule that is, though. Are we just going to take that to the nth degree and have a situation like the IRL where no defending is allowed at all? Who's to decide what is and isn't fair

So its ok to push a competitor to the wall and make him take the pit road and grass so long as you made one move? What if there was a car in the pitlane. Schumacher kept moving even after Rubens took his line. I can't believe people are still defending him. It was an absolutely disgusting move.

Super Hans · 2 Aug 2010, 12:44 (Ref:2738155)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

What a stupid rule that is, though. Are we just going to take that to the nth degree and have a situation like the IRL where no defending is allowed at all? Who's to decide what is and isn't fair

Me.

When a competitor pulls alongside, attempting to force them off-track is unfair.

jab · 2 Aug 2010, 12:45 (Ref:2738156)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

So its ok to push a competitor to the wall and make him take the pit road and grass so long as you made one move? What if there was a car in the pitlane. Schumacher kept moving even after Rubens took his line. I can't believe people are still defending him. It was an absolutely disgusting move.

But how is it any more disgusting than all the other moves that haven't been punished over the last few years?

I'm just going to wait for the inevitable similar incident at Spa that passes without 2 threads' worth of "ZOMG it was awful he should be banned"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Me.

When a competitor pulls alongside, attempting to force them off-track is unfair.

Which is what Vettel did in Turkey, and the stewards didn't even investigate it

Super Hans · 2 Aug 2010, 12:50 (Ref:2738159)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

Which is what Vettel did in Turkey, and the stewards didn't even investigate it

I don't think the incidents are directly comparable, although I'd agree that Vettel's move was worthy of censure.

strider · 2 Aug 2010, 12:52 (Ref:2738162)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Me.

When a competitor pulls alongside, attempting to force them off-track is unfair.

..and attempting to drive them into the pit wall is rather worse.

**Born Racer** · 2 Aug 2010, 15:27 (Ref:2738246)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

Who's to decide what is and isn't fair

The rule-makers and the stewards as enforcers of the rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

It's all well and good them punishing Michael but if they let anyone else get away with something similar, then it just proves that this was a decision made on personal grounds rather than on what actually happened

It doesn't prove that. It perhaps shows that they are too inconsistent, but also that each incident is different and there will often be an element of subjectivity in enforcing such a rule relating to driving etiquette. The best thing for a driver to do is make sure they don't cross the line (the proverbial line of going too far that is- not being across the line and off-track- that's another rule to debate).

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

I'm just going to wait for the inevitable similar incident at Spa

Hopefully it won't be inevitable because other drivers will be put off pulling a stunt like that due to Michael's penalty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

But how is it any more disgusting than all the other moves that haven't been punished over the last few years?

I sense you are playing something of a role of devil's advocate here though. Correct me if you don't think that to be the case. Because we all know rules have been applied inconsistently (and many would say way too overly inconsistently) over the years. That other moves have happened over the years that may or may not have been as bad and went unpunished doesn't mean that it's not time for the stewards to put their foot down at some point when the situation arises.

**chunterer** · 2 Aug 2010, 20:30 (Ref:2738389)

Perhaps one thing to point out, Derek Warwick is a proper bloke and he always had strong ethics about his racing and was always a crusader for circuit and driver safety after Paul's death.

He has also long been an admirer of Schuey afair, so all things considered he was an excellent choice of 'driver steward' this weekend even if no-one expected Michael to pull that stunt.

Derek was around in Senna and Prost's day so he was perfectly placed to judge a mental move when he saw it!

Fair play to Rubens as well, he didn't back out, but then it's just as well he didn't otherwise both cars would've been off into the boonies.

As for Schuey continuing, he'll be in the car as long as Merc want him in there. One could argue that 'the move of the year so far' only gave Merc and Schuey more publicity.

pannenmann · 2 Aug 2010, 21:46 (Ref:2738437)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Ross Brawn's explanation as to why a seven-time world champion is driving so craply: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85823

Just wait until Spa when he has those Pirelli rims...
Hamilton has to be a genious in Brawn's eyes.

Marbot · 2 Aug 2010, 23:59 (Ref:2738498)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pannenmann

Hamilton has to be a genious in Brawn's eyes.

Not even Hamilton is as aggressive with the car as TGF is. Hamilton as actually mellowed a bit in that respect.

Schummy · 3 Aug 2010, 01:00 (Ref:2738523)

Monaco 2011, with Pirellis and a very looong base car. That will be The Race for Michael. The race where he will silence his critics, where he will destroy that pesky oxygenated Nico, beating him a whole 0.1 secs in qualifying. People will not laugh then (or maybe they will).

Latest declarations by Brawn: "with just another 500cc more in his engine, Michael would easily be WC again".

**chunterer** · 3 Aug 2010, 10:37 (Ref:2738668)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schummy

Latest declarations by Brawn: "with just another 500cc more in his engine, Michael would easily be WC again".

Or with a second a lap plus car advantage like the Red Bull, or funnily enough like a Ferrari F2002 or F2004, in race conditions he could easily be WDC again!!!!

Knowlesy · 3 Aug 2010, 10:48 (Ref:2738674)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Or with a second a lap plus car advantage like the Red Bull, or funnily enough like a Ferrari F2002 or F2004, in race conditions he could easily be WDC again!!!!

And removal of Nico's wheels would help too.

VIVA GT · 3 Aug 2010, 10:49 (Ref:2738678)

Interesting insight from Derek Warwick (who if I remember correctly is also an ex- F1 Stock Car Chapmpion, so knows a little about contact - disregarding his time in the BTCC!).
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85838

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