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12 Jun 2017, 18:03 (Ref:3740622) | #7776 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 972
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"I think it’s the first time we go with this new feeling to a race weekend, where we are not the favorites from speed. Last years we were always the favorites", says jani.
well, last year, the toyota looked marginally faster than the porsche, to me. in 2015, the audis were quite a bit quicker than the porsche in race pace... until the night came. also, in 2014, both the toyota and the audi were quicker than the porsche in race pace. of course, they were never too far behind, but i'd also say they were never the very quickest in race setup. also, looking back at their earlier victories, from 1998 back, they also never seemed to have the best race laps. what they always had was enough reliability and consistency to come out first at the end of the race (except for 2014). |
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12 Jun 2017, 22:36 (Ref:3740692) | #7777 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,642
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Quote:
Furthermore, if you analyse the laps 3:30.0 and below (thus eliminating yellow flags , etc) you will find that both Porsche's had the fastest average times. Anyway, what has passed has passed. This year they are up the creek without a paddle. They seemingly don't have the speed weapon. It will be interesting to see how they mange this hindrance. As a Porsche fan boy, I'm now really keen to see how they react to this next year. I look forward to a 919 Gen III |
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13 Jun 2017, 15:10 (Ref:3740881) | #7778 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
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Motorsport Akutell (however it's spelled) are now also reporting rumors that Porsche may be leaving the WEC soon.
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13 Jun 2017, 15:55 (Ref:3740900) | #7779 | |||
Rookie
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 13
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Quote:
I thought that they are commited to the program till the end of 2018,or that was atleast the official statement from Porsche.Also i remember that they have gentelmen agreement with Toyota to stay with the same chasis untill the end of this rule set or in other words the end of 2019. |
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13 Jun 2017, 16:22 (Ref:3740910) | #7780 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
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Audi Sport were supposed to be around until at least 2017. Such agreements aren't worth the paper they're printed on if the parent company decides to make a change.
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13 Jun 2017, 16:48 (Ref:3740913) | #7781 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 363
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Oh dear. Will Toyota be racing itself from next year on? Can we have Toyota win LM while there is still competition (this weekend) and end this turbulent LMP1 era. Too much non-track related drama!
Btw, those rumors of Porsche leaving come at a time when there are new rumors of Audi considering a move to F1. |
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13 Jun 2017, 16:58 (Ref:3740917) | #7782 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
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Granted, the Porsche leaving the WEC soon should be lumped in with the Audi to F1 rumors that have been going on for nearly 20 years: I'll believe it when I see it and the fat lady hasn't sung yet. But things aren't encouraging, namely with Porsche's budget being so much larger than Toyota's (even if Toyota are spending $100 million, Porsche are way above that in terms of LMP1 spending) and risking getting defeated by them at LM, and politics going at at VAG and probably between VAG and the ACO.
The ACO have been at risk for such a trail off with the ERS incentive upping budgets and the rules originally being good for three years, meaning that teams had little time to get things right. Yeah, the ACO have basically declared rules stability until 2020, but I'd argue it was too little, too late. Not to mention ROI issues on a dollar per exposure basis compared to the likes of NASCAR or F1. Just like the IMSA GTP/Group C collapse of 25 years ago, and the original GT1 collapse of almost 20 years ago (right at the start of the Audi Sport era), the teams and the sanctioning body have priced themselves almost out of commission, and only a major rules shake up will stop the bleeding. |
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13 Jun 2017, 17:09 (Ref:3740920) | #7783 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,157
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Not that surprising. They came back, won LM a couple of times and now they're racing just Toyota. There is not much value left in their LMP1 program in my opinion.
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13 Jun 2017, 17:13 (Ref:3740921) | #7784 | |
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
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13 Jun 2017, 17:45 (Ref:3740924) | #7785 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
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Apparently they did, or else people wouldn't comment on it on a rival forum. Not to mention that Hindy from Midweek Motorsport/Radio Le Mans has been making not too subtle hints off and on for a while, including this weekend apparently, that it's a possibility. And that's not mentioning Dagys' thus far cryptic tweet of bad news coming this week, though there's been so far no clarification on what he meant or what this alleged "news" is.
I can't think of any worse news for the ACO right now than another LMP1 manufacturer giving up the ghost on their program, and it seems that Porsche might be more likely to bail out than Toyota. |
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13 Jun 2017, 18:14 (Ref:3740934) | #7786 | |
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
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13 Jun 2017, 18:16 (Ref:3740936) | #7787 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,335
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__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
13 Jun 2017, 19:05 (Ref:3740957) | #7788 | |
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
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13 Jun 2017, 19:13 (Ref:3740962) | #7789 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,041
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13 Jun 2017, 19:23 (Ref:3740966) | #7790 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,082
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I'll just hop on a plane to Germany, it's not that hard right?
Either way there is a rumour about porsche leaving. We've been hearing it for a while. Its whether or not it's true or not. |
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13 Jun 2017, 19:33 (Ref:3740968) | #7791 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
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Quote:
I could just as well claim I have seen the next issue of some German magazine where BMW announce their entry into LMP1 from 2020. Does that make it 'real'? |
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13 Jun 2017, 19:37 (Ref:3740970) | #7792 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,232
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I have no problem believing the paper article exists, but context and exact content and wording in it could make a big difference.
The user who referenced it on Autosport forums has 4000 posts, but he didn't go into specifics and did not directly say he had seen the article. |
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13 Jun 2017, 19:40 (Ref:3740972) | #7793 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,082
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I'd probably believe that you'd seen the article, yeah. I have no problem with that given I certainly don't know otherwise.
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13 Jun 2017, 19:43 (Ref:3740974) | #7794 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 44,021
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Asking for a link or reference is perfectly acceptable as is highlighting that it isn't available for a valid reason. Getting all aggressive over such a small thing isn't acceptable. We're all part of the same community here. Time to move on if it bothers you so much..
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__________________
Brum brum |
13 Jun 2017, 19:52 (Ref:3740980) | #7795 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
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Real or imagined, the Porsche pull out rumors have been around since at least when Audi left, Audi and Porsche are both parts of Volkswagen Group, and such rumors IMO highlight how unstable LMP1 has been since 2014. Having three players in there was fine, but all it could take is one of them getting tired of the rules or deciding to leave to do something else to upset the apple cart.
One team leaving is bad enough, but survivable in the short term for the WEC. Le Mans can take care of itself, as we've seen though the years, but what about a full season championship should another team leave LMP1? How will the ACO respond? At this stage, in my opinion, for the health of LMP1 in the short term (until 2020), just the mere rumor that Porsche or Toyota might leave, especially with no one like Toyota able to quickly fill the void like they did when Peugeot left, is cause for concern. |
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13 Jun 2017, 19:56 (Ref:3740981) | #7796 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
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Quote:
When someone who ad nauseam keeps regurgitating his own made up conspiracy theory claims something based on a random post on another forum there is absolutely zero reason to take that seriously whatsoever. |
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13 Jun 2017, 20:00 (Ref:3740982) | #7797 | |||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,934
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Quote:
Enough now. The rumours are definitely doing the rounds here in Le Mans, but that may be all they are. Adam has clearly set out the score, so let's not argue about what is, may be or isn't true as none of us actually know. |
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__________________
280 days...... |
13 Jun 2017, 20:03 (Ref:3740984) | #7798 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,082
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Quote:
Unfortunately it's not like the old days when the top tier prototypes could be sold as customer cars. Does that instantly put a time limit on any manufacturer involvement? Seems that unless it becomes cheaper to produce the cars, it's always going to go this way. |
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13 Jun 2017, 20:05 (Ref:3740985) | #7799 | |
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
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Exactly my point. Next time someone claims to know something without backing it up I hope they get the same response.
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13 Jun 2017, 20:08 (Ref:3740986) | #7800 | ||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,934
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Maybe. I can assure you though you will get a response if you don't move on. This is a discussion forum, if we could only post positively proven fact, we'd be lucky to get one post a day. Life is full of conjecture, that's how it is. Now it really is time to move on.....
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__________________
280 days...... |
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