[Driver] Nico vs Michael

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Schummy

Latest declarations by Brawn: "with just another 500cc more in his engine, Michael would easily be WC again".

Already we're getting into scandals for the 2011 season (or earlier!).

'Enginegate'.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Already we're getting into scandals for the 2011 season (or earlier!).

'Enginegate'.

I doubt Schumacher will be on the grid.

I think he'll continue to the end of 2010 before gracefully conceding that his time has passed

[pannenmann]

To spend more time with his family. After 2 years he'll be bored again. But as he's failed on 2 and 4 wheels, we'll have very well known trike driver soon. Or maybe he should try out power boating if that also fails.
Just let's all hope he won't appear as a TV commentator like many bored ex-drivers/managers that can't let go of F1. "It was totally Massa's fault, the spring clearly just defended its line but he chose to drive right into it. I'm glad he did't hurt me, it was so dangerous."

[alc]

Looks like we should start a new thread - Rubens vs Michael

Who will be ahead at the end of the season ?

Also, what has happened to those splendid occasions when we saw one driver get out and thump another? I guess Max Mosely declared it to be ungentlemanly conduct
Am I right in remembering Keke Rosberg did it to someone ? Have these memorable scenes ever made it onto YouTube to help those whose memory is fading ?

[Teretonga]

Nelson Piquet did it to Salazar at Hockenheim.

Michael has done more damage to his reputation this year than he could ever have imagined.
He's looking for something to live the rest of his life for and he still hasn't found what he's looking for....

[herowassenna]

He claimed he was aiming for a 5cm line and messed up that corner before Rubens went past him. That should send alarm bells ringing in the Mercedes camp, he was always stunning to watch for his precision and consistent race pace.
I honestly think 2005 and 2006 saw little mistakes creeping into his driving hence Montezemolo guiding him into retirement, but 3 years away haven't sharpened him any.
I still remember Malaysia 1999, after he returned from his leg breaking holiday.
He galvanised the Ferrari squad, qualified 3/4 second faster than Irvine and gave up the lead twice to "support" Irvine. At the time he said that the enforced break had recharged his batteries because he got a break from the punishment of a full F1 season.
Food for thought?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by jab

What a stupid rule that is, though. Are we just going to take that to the nth degree and have a situation like the IRL where no defending is allowed at all? Who's to decide what is and isn't fair


Yes but you should always expect that in professional sport

The rules need to be either rewritten or clarified. It's all well and good them punishing Michael but if they let anyone else get away with something similar, then it just proves that this was a decision made on personal grounds rather than on what actually happened

F1 specialises in enforcing stupid rules inconsistentlyenforced on personal grounds.

Barrichello is just lucky it wasn't Kovalainen, Vettel, Hamilton or Kobayashi!

But what the the hell what is another unfair and inconsistent penalty.

(They should all have been penalised - again why the stewards need to provide written reasons for the penalty and the decisions need to be based on precedence and not personal animosity or championship position!)

[Bononi]

Not very far from wrestling, isn't it ?

[ralf fan]

He's outpaced Nico by a few hundredths in Practice 2. Its On!!

[RF_Racer]

Give him a break! That Merc is rubbish... It has masses of understeer which we all know how much he hates and not suits his style.

Lets not forget many good drivers have struggled with tyres in the past, Kubica, Heidfeld, Kimi, Massa.. He is not doing bad at all. But seems like the vultures who hated him from his first F1 stint have got their daggers out.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by RF_Racer

Give him a break! That Merc is rubbish... It has masses of understeer which we all know how much he hates and not suits his style.

Give ME a break - all this nonsense about understeer in the Mercedes..... particularly in the wet. All Schumacher has to do to get the tail out is use the throttle - F1 cars don't have traction control these days, you know, and have a surplus of power over rear end grip - even in the dry.

If you can point me to one published quote from Schumacher in which he says that his problem with the Mercedes is that it has too much understeer for his liking, I'd be pleased to read it.

If you can then find me an F1 engineer that could NOT change the handling of the Mercedes to oversteer within a HALF a day (given a choice of springs and anti roll bars) or by simply removing a bit of rear wing angle, that would be great too.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by RF_Racer

Give him a break! That Merc is rubbish... It has masses of understeer which we all know how much he hates and not suits his style.

1996, the Ferrari F310 I would personally rate as one of the worst cars ever designed. Irvine never did get a handle on it and has been quoted as saying, he knew how bad that car was, yet Schumi won 3 races with it, and finished 3rd in the championship.
The 1997 F310B was an understeerer also, yet he won 5 races and nearly won the championship.
1998 was the first Ferrari designed by Byrne and the car got progressively better until the F2000 which won the championship and then Ferrari dominated there on.

My point, if I have one, is this. When Schumi was at his peak, he could drive around any problem and win. He's proved it.
As each years Ferraris improved, it allowed the talents of lesser mortals to access most of it's potential the majority of the time. It didn't take Schumi's genius to win races. As witnessed by how much Rubens closed in his respective performances to TGF.

I also feel that in the way some drivers, when driving in a poor car for a number of seasons lose that racers edge ( Fisichella for instance ), Schumi over the course of 2000 to 2006 lost his racers edge but because he hadn't had to improvise for a number of years. His dominance was almost a given. I always felt he had lost something in 2005/ 2006. Nothing major but just the odd mistake creeping in when previously it didn't happen.

[Schummy]

I agree with the las post ( and others).

But I have a different theory about MS's current level. I just think he has gone losing some percentages of performances along the years. hero explained well how it was not apparent in his Ferrari stint. Any individual, sooner or later (more sooner than later), passes his/her biological peak some time.

Federer is truly great but probably his not the same as he was years ago. Karpov was in the slow decline when he was playing his famous matches with Kasparov, who, in turn, ended losing to Kramnik, etc, etc

I don't understand why some people are so surprised about MS's form evolution, he is a human being. He continues being a great driver, but simply he is not the best anymore and he struggles to beat Rosberg (who probably is at his peak).

To use a bit of humor about Michael's current position is not hatred, it's taking the ironic side of things. I supported MS earlier in his career, but never negated he was not very friendly/sportsman on track, so I am not particularly attached at his person. However I tend to think he is a good guy when out of F1 affairs.

[JeremySmith]

Thank you Schummy... Such a lateral thinker. can identify with your thought process..

Then the rest blinds me with science...

[RF_Racer]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

1996, the Ferrari F310 I would personally rate as one of the worst cars ever designed. Irvine never did get a handle on it and has been quoted as saying, he knew how bad that car was, yet Schumi won 3 races with it, and finished 3rd in the championship.
The 1997 F310B was an understeerer also, yet he won 5 races and nearly won the championship.
1998 was the first Ferrari designed by Byrne and the car got progressively better until the F2000 which won the championship and then Ferrari dominated there on.

My point, if I have one, is this. When Schumi was at his peak, he could drive around any problem and win. He's proved it.
As each years Ferraris improved, it allowed the talents of lesser mortals to access most of it's potential the majority of the time. It didn't take Schumi's genius to win races. As witnessed by how much Rubens closed in his respective performances to TGF.

I also feel that in the way some drivers, when driving in a poor car for a number of seasons lose that racers edge ( Fisichella for instance ), Schumi over the course of 2000 to 2006 lost his racers edge but because he hadn't had to improvise for a number of years. His dominance was almost a given. I always felt he had lost something in 2005/ 2006. Nothing major but just the odd mistake creeping in when previously it didn't happen.

Worst car, yes the 96 Ferrari was a dog, but from what I remember it was tail happy and had other issues. Ferrari also had a agressive development pace taht year. I remember MS struggling at silverstone 03 with a car setup he couldnt get happy with, it was understeering, a result he spent the race in mid field while Rubens won.

[herowassenna]

Schumacher was interviewed by David Coulthard on todays qualifying programme aired on the BBC. There was quite a few interesting questions and answers, but one which stood out was when DC asked Schumi how he would have fared against a 24 year old Schumi.
He answered, and I'm not quoting directly, merely relating his answer as best I can remember, that all athletes as they get older cannot compete against an athlete at his physical peak in his 20's to 30's. It's mpossible because of the way the human body evolves. He said what he brings to the sport now is experience.
I think he's as dedicated to physical training as he ever was, but I remember an interview with DC once where he explained that for him to achieve the same gym results as he had the previous year he was having to work harder each year. There will come a point that you just cannot repeat those results.
At some neurological level I'd assume that is also true.
I doubt that Rubens is as good as he was 10 years ago or even 5 years ago, simply because of his age. Continuity has allowed Rubens to remain in the ball park for performance which is something that in this current non testing F1, is what is causing Schumi such hardship getting up to competitive speed.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Schumacher was interviewed by David Coulthard on todays qualifying programme aired on the BBC. There was quite a few interesting questions and answers, but one which stood out was when DC asked Schumi how he would have fared against a 24 year old Schumi.
He answered, and I'm not quoting directly, merely relating his answer as best I can remember, that all athletes as they get older cannot compete against an athlete at his physical peak in his 20's to 30's. It's mpossible because of the way the human body evolves. He said what he brings to the sport now is experience.
I think he's as dedicated to physical training as he ever was, but I remember an interview with DC once where he explained that for him to achieve the same gym results as he had the previous year he was having to work harder each year. There will come a point that you just cannot repeat those results.
At some neurological level I'd assume that is also true.
I doubt that Rubens is as good as he was 10 years ago or even 5 years ago, simply because of his age. Continuity has allowed Rubens to remain in the ball park for performance which is something that in this current non testing F1, is what is causing Schumi such hardship getting up to competitive speed.

Good post and these are all the reasons why he should not retire. One little thing, on the whole, he is still at a competitive speed. He's had far more trouble with accidents or car-malfunctions while being ahead of Nico than he has while being behind him.
To be honest, as a pretty dedicated Schumacher fan I expected him this year to pick up points positions maybe a podium or two, if the car was decent, which it is. Its far and away not a race winner though.
I think it would have been pretty amazing if he had jumped in the car and had started winning races. I don't think it harms his reputation at all, unfortunately F1 is such a fickle sport that IF he wins a couple of races then people will be saying how great he was for sticking through the hard times.

[gachjoel]

Nico any day,
schummy has hit his sell by date.
your good for your age, but there's better around you.
he's still living on with the old days where he used to bully people on the track.
he tried it recently with Barrichello, and it didn't work.

[Schummy]

MS is disappointing me in his comeback in another front. I thought that perhaps he would have mellowed a bit after his retirement, having tasted other ways of life. But it is not so.

The Barri's affair points to a behavior of a minor man. He "apologized" Rubens with a ridicule SMS(!) , even if he has him meters away in the pit lane. He is a coward or he is a false with his apology (probably he reluctantly does it for Mercedes marketing).

Also apparently he was one of the few drivers not attending Rubens 300th celebration, being one long time team mate. Some sporting champions are so puerile and rubbish.

For those reasons I would be happier if Nico beat him in the resume of the season. I admire people who are great champions and decent individuals, there are many of them. Probably I have an old pre-90s mentality.

[wnut]

I have my doubts whether Barri invited Schu to his party.

Secondly after the bull Barri has come up with regarding his time at Ferrari I am not surprised Schu does not want to socialise with him!

[mattt]

Originally Posted by wnut

...
Secondly after the bull Barri has come up with regarding his time at Ferrari I am not surprised Schu does not want to socialise with him!

What bull is that then? Cause one thing about that is I'd heard Barrichello say there was no clause in his contract about being a number 2 and thats about that.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by mattt

What bull is that then? Cause one thing about that is I'd heard Barrichello say there was no clause in his contract about being a number 2 and thats about that.

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...r-ferrari-foes

http://www.gridcrasher.com/index.php...umacher-a-homo


Would you go to his party?

[Schummy]

Originally Posted by wnut

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...r-ferrari-foes

http://www.gridcrasher.com/index.php...umacher-a-homo


Would you go to his party?

About the first link, I don't see any strange in it. I agree with RB's view.

Respect de second one... One can see the reliability of it looking the rest of that page.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by wnut

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...r-ferrari-foes

http://www.gridcrasher.com/index.php...umacher-a-homo


Would you go to his party?

[mattt]

Originally Posted by wnut

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...r-ferrari-foes

http://www.gridcrasher.com/index.php...umacher-a-homo


Would you go to his party?

Would you trust those articles?