[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I think perhaps one or two current teams may not be around by 2026 (or bought by VAG)

I have always been against Porsche going to F1 because as a true dyed in the wool "Porschista" I have always felt the Porsche's spiritual home was (and is) in sportscar racing.
However, the prospect of a BoP prototype class is really quite unappealing to me. For the first time in my life I can say that I hope that this happens.

The only two F1 teams that look like they may not last until 2026, are Haas and Williams, but would VAG want to buy one of those teams, rather than starting afresh?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The only two F1 teams that look like they may not last until 2026, are Haas and Williams, but would VAG want to buy one of those teams, rather than starting afresh?

I cant answer that, but 2026 is a long way ahead and if what the article says is true, then it really does look like it will happen as it seems that the current established F1 teams only agreed to give up their lead in experience if the VW brands or other interested parties make a long-term commitment.
So , if we hear/see that this package is approved, then we can reasonably expect to see Audi and Porsche in F1

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I cant answer that, but 2026 is a long way ahead and if what the article says is true, then it really does look like it will happen as it seems that the current established F1 teams only agreed to give up their lead in experience if the VW brands or other interested parties make a long-term commitment.
So , if we hear/see that this package is approved, then we can reasonably expect to see Audi and Porsche in F1

Maybe F1 will expand the number of teams to 12? I certainly hope so, as I think the field needs to be larger.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Maybe F1 will expand the number of teams to 12? I certainly hope so, as I think the field needs to be larger.

I agree. 10 teams isn’t enough. I just hope Porsche put in more of an effort than they were last in F1, their V12 engine was shameful to say the least. Their most successful time was when they let TAG run their engines in the McLaren

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I agree. 10 teams isn’t enough. I just hope Porsche put in more of an effort than they were last in F1, their V12 engine was shameful to say the least. Their most successful time was when they let TAG run their engines in the McLaren

TAG financed the engine. Porsche designed, built and ran the engine.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

TAG financed the engine. Porsche designed, built and ran the engine.

Close enough. Just shows Porsche weren’t prepared to fund the engine themselves

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Maybe F1 will expand the number of teams to 12? I certainly hope so, as I think the field needs to be larger.

Contrary to forum beliefs, the number of teams is not limited at 10. The only problem is that any new team joining is required to pay $200 million. The sum is then equally distributed among existing teams as compensation for 'diluting the cost of their franchise'. One can avoid that payment by acquiring an existing team.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Close enough. Just shows Porsche weren’t prepared to fund the engine themselves

Porsche does (and always has) much consulting and engineering work for other organizations/projects/companies. They were approached and commissioned by TAG to build the engine.

[Adam43]

Thanks for clarifying

To SG’s point, it sounds like Porsche, if they do get involved, will have a very different kind of involvement than their previous forays into F1.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Contrary to forum beliefs, the number of teams is not limited at 10. The only problem is that any new team joining is required to pay $200 million. The sum is then equally distributed among existing teams as compensation for 'diluting the cost of their franchise'. One can avoid that payment by acquiring an existing team.

That still leaves a field of only 10 teams.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That still leaves a field of only 10 teams.

11th team pays compensation to existing 10.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

11th team pays compensation to existing 10.

I get that, but that costs a lot as Pandamasque explained.

[Spyderman]

I don't want to stir up the "illuminatti" here , but there is a strong possibility that Porsche may only be an engine supplier. Look to Red Bull.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I don't want to stir up the "illuminatti" here , but there is a strong possibility that Porsche may only be an engine supplier. Look to Red Bull.

Red Bull confirmed they will take over Honda's Formula 1 engines from the 2022 season onwards, under the auspices of a new company called Red Bull Powertrains.


https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-b...h-new-company/

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Red Bull confirmed they will take over Honda's Formula 1 engines from the 2022 season onwards, under the auspices of a new company called Red Bull Powertrains.


https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-b...h-new-company/

Not really supposed to discuss this here, but according to the article you posted this is valid 2022-2024 inclusive.

[Adam43]

From what I can see, the article continues on the theme about the tweaks to the engine regs that encourages VW to be interested. It seems to surmise it would be Audi and Porsche that would benefit (similar to LMDH).

I assumed that if they did enter F1 it would be as an engine supplier rather than a full team. Although I too assumed F1 wasn’t Porsche’s bag.

Who knows it’s speculation at the moment.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Not really supposed to discuss this here, but according to the article you posted this is valid 2022-2024 inclusive.

Not wanting to derail the thread any further, 2022-2024 covers the engine development freeze. The new F1 engine regs come in, in 2025 so I suppose they could then opt for Porsche power but having gone to all that trouble to set up Red Bull Powertrains, it seems strange.

[Spyderman]

Speculation indeed! Its what we do here.

F1 has not really been a Porsche bag except on specific occasions (successfully 1984-1986).
There has been word that there has been some "pressure" on VAG to go to F1. It seems that both Audi and Porsche have been (unsurprisingly) the two brands that will represent VAG in F1 if the leap is made.

I can tell you that some time ago when this was being discussed (about 3 or 4 years ago) I had a very good contact in the German motorsport journalist community (with good Porsche contacts) that told me that Porsche was looking at going to F1 with a full team built from the ground up.

Now, I think that this may no longer be the case, although the original article that I posted does not specify this. (except for caption on one of the photos that claims that Porsche will enter as an engine supplier only)
So...If this is true, the "cap" on the number of teams in F1 argument is mute, unless Audi has other plans.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Not wanting to derail the thread any further, 2022-2024 covers the engine development freeze. The new F1 engine regs come in, in 2025 so I suppose they could then opt for Porsche power but having gone to all that trouble to set up Red Bull Powertrains, it seems strange.

It is a lot of effort for a short term solution, but that’s F1! I suppose they had little choice.

I suppose slowly over the next few years the speculation will change to sometying more concrete, or go away!

[hondafan37]

Team Penske in LMP2 to better prepare for LMDh?
https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...eparer-le-lmdh

[hondafan37]

I wish the Porsche LMDH looked as beautiful as this render

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVJg-zkM..._web_copy_link

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I wish the Porsche LMDH looked as beautiful as this render

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVJg-zkM..._web_copy_link

Very nice indeed.

[TF110]

I like that. We'll see if its close, probably soon.

[Tique]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Team Penske in LMP2 to better prepare for LMDh?
https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...eparer-le-lmdh

As the ex-LMP1 car will be still eligible for 2022. I wonder if it will better for Penske to run an ex-R13 rather than an Oreca 07. At least, they will have more freedom for their driver (no silver mandatory) and the running cost between those two cars should not be significant I think

[gert]

Similar to Tandy, Bamber too has put himself out of contention for a drive in the Porsche LMDh by defecting to Cadillac