[WEC] Silverstone WEC 2012

[Articus]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

1 Audi slams into the side of Krohn Ferrari taking the Krohn car off the circuit and Audi undamaged: JH: "uh, uh, that's an unfortunate incident"

7 Toyota with KN aboard avoids slamming into the rear of the Aston Martin GT coming out of club by running wide off the circuit and going around it, making the exact same move Audi did at LM in 2011 (except audi gained a position by overtaking the Pug). JH: "HE SHOULD BE PENALISED FOR THAT! He gained an adavantage"



The people who claimed ACO bias for Peugeot look like real idiots now, especially with all the Audi signage around the circuits and the old ACO grandstand at La Sarthe being turned into Audi hospitality.

I was more than confused by some of the blatantly biased personalities on duty this weekend...It's an eye opener that's for sure.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Not sure why my Brands Hatch suggestion and Silverstone analogy got deleted but whatever, I really don't wanna get into arguing.

(My fault entirely - I wanted to quote your post but mistakenly overwrote it - apologies - Aysedasi)

TF110, I'm too tired to nickpick about ever single thing you said (even though I could), but really now, showing a 5-second glimpse of that GTE-PRO battle after it was already finished equals in your mind good coverage of that one? The last 15 mins were literally nothing but Audi&Toyota PR shots, if this was any other championship we would have not only seen the TIGHT battle for the PRO podium position that went on for laps, but also the fight for the best petrol position. And you cannot say that these battles were meaningless, otherwise it kinda goes against your entire argument. Showing Toyota mechanics for no reason - especially as there was nothing at stake anymore - does not equal that. If they really, I mean really wanted to please their only two manufacturers, they'd put a split screen with those P1 shots on the left and the actual fighting on the right.

I never said they were useless, please don't put words in my mouth. I said the LMP2 battle finished the same order it was at the end of the last lap. I'm not condoning them not showing it. They did show what happened in the GTE pro for 3rd, even if it was a few seconds and an onboard. It was shown. But people blaming the FIA or ACO for that is kinda jumping the gun. Do you know who is in charge of the cameras? Or who shows what is on screen? When you can, blame them. That's what I said. On another note, that was the best racing in P1 I've seen in a LONG time. Peugeot usually ran away from Audi (other than at LM) and LM this year was which E-Tron would win. This race was great, 9 out of 10 for me (10 would be more GTE's and a Toyota win )

[KlBD]

Originally Posted by Articus

How does a fire-extinguisher "non-conform"? It works too well? Isn't the fire bottle supplied by GM?

According to DSC the one they installed in #50 was apparently past its best-by date.

[Maelochs]

"I said the LMP2 battle finished the same order it was at the end of the last lap."

Yes. In close racing, sometimes the chasing car gets by, sometimes the leading car stays ahead. It is not important which happens; it is the anticipation that something May happen which makes the moment exciting.

Saying the order was unchanged really means, "Why watch the race, just look at the written results." It is the unfolding of the events which is exciting.

And yes, we don't know who ordered the shots at the end of the race. it is true that condemning ACO/FIA might be incorrect. However, that is the entity which presented the race.

If I go to a store and by a faulty product, i go to the store manager and demand a refund; I don't fly to the country where the product was made and visit the factory.

Whichever person or persons which is/are responsible for blowing the coverage for the end of the race, they blew it, and if ACO/FIA doesn't want to be the brunt of more criticism it needs to find out whom to speak to and say what needs to be said.

Oh, and "They did show what happened in the GTE pro for 3rd, even if it was a few seconds and an onboard."

No they didn't show it. If they had shown it, we would know what happened. Including too little information for the information provided to be meaningful is to be meaningless.

There is no honest way to say that the end of the race was covered well in terms of showing race fans the best racing happening. Obviously other directives were being served. But you are right, i cannot say for sure who made the calls on TV direction in the final minutes.

[TF110]

No, I didn't say that it means what you think. Don't tell someone what they think or what they mean when they say something. I didn't imply that. I even said I didn't condone them not showing the battle. What can you do about it? I'm not arguing here. It's pointless. People should stop assuming what someone means if they aren't sure. Why would anyone not want to see close racing regardless of the class. I just stated it finished in the order it was before the last lap. So basically, we didn't miss any passing, that's not saying there was no use showing it.

And they did show what happened from the onboard. Stop picking and choosing. They didn't have external cameras on the GTE battle for 3rd, but they showed the few seconds that the pass took place. I can see if they didn't show ANYTHING at all, but they at least gave us the shot from the Aston's POV. That's not saying it was sufficient either. Again, that's an assumption on your part as to what I meant. I just stated facts, not any 'siding with the broadcast'. It definitely wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad either.

[Aysedasi]

For goodness sake move on guys....

[TF110]

I wish they showed more action instead of Audi's garage, I'll be the first to admit that. I'm no Audi fan, but it was still a great race, even with the hiccups at the end with cameras not focusing on the ongoing battles.

[Simmi]

That was my one gripe - the ridiculous amount of cutting into the garages. That's one reason why I'd love more manufacturers as they wouldn't be able to keep eight cameramen in each garage.

[Peat]

Audi essentially bankroll the series, so i would be careful what you wish for.

[pauln]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

F

And thirdly, was that safety car for Tresson's car really necessary? It went off right in front of me and looked entirely safe to me..... Years ago they wouldn't have given it a second thought there....

Others have made good points on the possibility of more cars coming in and sorry if I'm a tad late to this point.

I was one of the marshals dealing with it. The decision taken by Race Control was to deploy the breakdown vehicle straight to it, which itself had to cross the track to get to us. No way that can be done without a Safety Car.

We cleared it more quickly than we would have with a JCB - it would have taken a good 8-10 minutes to get one of them to us (from Copse/opposite us on the inside) and probably another 10 to lift it and take it back to the gate at the Becketts grandstand.

[littleman]

I like the idea of The Silverstone 12 Hours, it could be the birth of a future classic.

It takes decades for a motor race to mature into folklore, a truly renowned global event. Sebring goes back to 1953, Le Mans to 1923!

They both had to start somewhere.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by pauln

Others have made good points on the possibility of more cars coming in and sorry if I'm a tad late to this point.

I was one of the marshals dealing with it. The decision taken by Race Control was to deploy the breakdown vehicle straight to it, which itself had to cross the track to get to us. No way that can be done without a Safety Car.

We cleared it more quickly than we would have with a JCB - it would have taken a good 8-10 minutes to get one of them to us (from Copse/opposite us on the inside) and probably another 10 to lift it and take it back to the gate at the Becketts grandstand.

Always good to have the inside story - something that looked very simple to an ordinary spectator was clearly far from that!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by littleman

I like the idea of The Silverstone 12 Hours, it could be the birth of a future classic.

It takes decades for a motor race to mature into folklore, a truly renowned global event. Sebring goes back to 1953, Le Mans to 1923!

They both had to start somewhere.

I've no problem with a 12 hour race but I see little sense in running into dark just for the sake of it. My only experience of it at Silverstone (05?) was that it was far from fun for spectators out and about on a circuit totally unprepared for dealing with the great unwashed in the dark!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I've no problem with a 12 hour race but I see little sense in running into dark just for the sake of it. My only experience of it at Silverstone (05?) was that it was far from fun for spectators out and about on a circuit totally unprepared for dealing with the great unwashed in the dark!

Well, they do have the Britcar 24h race these days...so maybe they've learned a lesson or two there.

[Peat]

I imagine that the new luffield infield spectator area, fully lit, with ferris-wheel, beer tents, bands, food vendors could be a fun place on a warm DRY night with a couple of thousand people about.

But, yeah, the rest of the track would be...odd.

[isynge]

Last Sunday's race was my fourth trip to the Silverstone 6 Hours / 1000 km and it's been interesting seeing how the event has evolved.

This year's race was significantly better than expected at the head of the field, with it feeling very much all to play for until really quite close to the end. This obviously helped keep attention, and contributed to the overall positive atmosphere and sense of excitement throughout the race. In a lot of ways however this overshadowed the other classes - I'd expected LMP2 in particular to be exciting, and it was, but didn't get the sort of billing on the commentary that necessarily reflected that. Not a complaint, more a reflection of some of the realities of sportscar racing.

Thinking it through, I'm not certain that the revisions to Silverstone post 2010 have necessarily made for a better spectator experience. There are some bits where you feel that bit further back from the track and less engaged, and somehow the overall flow of the track is something I've yet to get completely used to.

Crowd wise it felt a bit busier than some previous years. There was a distinct queue to get in on Sunday morning, and where spectators clumped (around start-finish) there was a feel of a bit of a throng. Is 35,000 accurate? Gut feel says it probably wasn't too far off that. Where efforts were made to keep the atmosphere positive, such as having the Vulcan flypast, I think they worked.

Some obvious improvements do need to be made. The seeming randomness of which grandstands were and weren't open was a particular disappointment. Okay it's not a capacity crowd, so they're not 'needed' - but limiting the vantage points around the track doesn't make for a great experience, and doesn't show Silverstone off to its best advantage - in particular having the large one by Becketts closed seems to be a deeply curious decision - especially as it was open in 2011.

Catering's a bit of a bugbear. I honestly think sportscar racing should have a chance at appealing to a relatively affluent demographic, and profit from styling itself as a proper 'day out'. Steps like the family zone are an indication of how it could go in that direction. For that to be successful though it needs to learn from festivals like Latitude, where the overall high quality of British street / market food can be showcased. If Luardos in London's Whitecross Market can do a stupendously good burrito for £5, why can't something of this quality be delivered at Silverstone? As it stands, with the Divine Burger/Sausage franchise it felt a lot more like a 2nd division football match from 15 years ago in terms of quality. Not going to persuade me to spend money, and limits the chance of me taking the non dedicated fan.

On balance the trajectory of the event seems to be going in the right direction. I'm not certain I'm convinced by it becoming a 12 hour race, somehow continuing to polish the 6 hour offering seems a better step for Silverstone.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

A combination of things which made it feel like Le Mans and America had come to Northamptonshire for an evening out.

The race went into dusk, which was a large factor.

The cars were lined up Le Mans style before the start and the build up was fantastically exciting. Yesterday, the cars just seemed to be waiting to get going, without any real build up. At Le Mans, particularly when you're on the pit stealth, your pulse rate goes up massively and doesn't return to normality for a couple of laps. It did that at the ALMS meeting.

I also remember a lot of promotional stuff was done by a number of the manufacturers and most fans had ended up supporting one by the end of the race - depending on which flag they had been given!

Perhaps being 6 years old at the time, it had more of an effect on me, but I dont think so. A 6 year old G4J wouldn't have been taken in so much at yesterday's event, as good as it was!

Thanks. Yes, ALMS really has set a great standard with the grid walks, the autograph sessions, displays, etc. You know you are at a big event; it feels important. It feels exciting, long before the engines fire.

I realize there are costs to have that atmosphere, but it seems there may be costs to not having it also. No, I won't argue that rows of flags, etc., will bring in more spectators on their own. Advertising and promotion would be the way to do that. Get people there, wow them with pomp, and create that event feeling around the race. Create value.

[Sodemo]

Not sure how I would deal with a 12H race, might go there for the start, then perhaps go away and come back for the sunset / dark laps. I doubt I could do 12H watching, I get knackered by about 6pm of being trackside as it is.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Not sure how I would deal with a 12H race, might go there for the start, then perhaps go away and come back for the sunset / dark laps. I doubt I could do 12H watching, I get knackered by about 6pm of being trackside as it is.

Really? As a Le Mans regular, watching virtually the whole of the race, 6 hours went by like a flash to me..... . By 6pm, we were just warming up!

[trickyd]

Originally Posted by isynge

.
Catering's a bit of a bugbear. I honestly think sportscar racing should have a chance at appealing to a relatively affluent demographic, and profit from styling itself as a proper 'day out'. Steps like the family zone are an indication of how it could go in that direction. For that to be successful though it needs to learn from festivals like Latitude, where the overall high quality of British street / market food can be showcased. If Luardos in London's Whitecross Market can do a stupendously good burrito for £5, why can't something of this quality be delivered at Silverstone?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. there are already far too many things in this country aimed at the 'affluent' middle class market. Premier League football, 'farmers' markets, 'farm' shops, festivals, everything pretty much. Whenever somebody has an idea in this country they always try and think how they can make it exclusive, and for as few people as possible. I think thats the opposite of how it should work. Market food should be the cheapest, as there are no middle men. £5 might seem like a decent price for a sandwhich or burrito in London but if somebody's charging me £5 for some some bread and a bit of meat I'm going to ask where I go for the accompanying *. How about make it affordable, somewhere where a father can take his sons without having to worry about it.

[Peat]

Originally Posted by trickyd

£5 might seem like a decent price for a sandwhich or burrito in London but if somebody's charging me £5 for some some bread and a bit of meat I'm going to ask where I go for the accompanying blowjob.

That has made my day.

It's a tough one. Divine Burger obviously has a contract for a set period. I'm guessing they are in the middle of it at the moment as the standards are pretty appalling. They will then go back to putting salad in using non-stale bread around the time the contract is up for tender again.

Had the guy who runs a burger van at my local scrap merchants been there, he would have sold out in under an hour. Vastly superior quality, half the price.

Another thing that razzed me off this weekend was that the friends i took had to pay through the nose to get in. I had booked beforehand and used the radiolemans/travel destinations discount so had the weekend ticket for £32 delivered.

When we arrived on Saturday. My friends were told that weekend tickets were not available and that the two days had to be purchased separately. That amounted to £50 in the end. (not even the price advertised on the website...) If you are in the market for a weekend ticket, that means your are at least keen - talk about * on your own doorstep.

[CTD]

There must some way one could complain about those conditions!?
It must be in the race organizers interest to improve on these matters.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by CTD

There must some way one could complain about those conditions!?
It must be in the race organizers interest to improve on these matters.

I wrote an e-mail to the ACO after Spa (to complain that there was no Radio Le Mans local radio available at the circuit, unlike in previous years) and got a personal response within a day. I'd suggest doing something similar.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by trickyd

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. there are already far too many things in this country aimed at the 'affluent' middle class market. Premier League football, 'farmers' markets, 'farm' shops, festivals, everything pretty much. Whenever somebody has an idea in this country they always try and think how they can make it exclusive, and for as few people as possible. I think thats the opposite of how it should work. Market food should be the cheapest, as there are no middle men. £5 might seem like a decent price for a sandwhich or burrito in London but if somebody's charging me £5 for some some bread and a bit of meat I'm going to ask where I go for the accompanying blowjob. How about make it affordable, somewhere where a father can take his sons without having to worry about it.

I'm not 100% sure the two are mutually exclusive.

There's a demand for more affordable catering, and there's a demand for better catering. At the moment neither of these are being satisfied, and the absence of any on site competition for Divine makes it unlikely either of us is going to be particularly happy.

Make it open - let different establishments find their market and address it.

If an event singles out one particularly demographic and pursues it to the exclusion of all else then all that's happening is the market's being narrowed.

[Peat]

But, as seems to be the way with everything at the new Silverstone, the exclusive Divine Burger deal is probably very lucrative for them while shafting the people it's meant to serve.

Vendor competition would be wonderful.