[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[deggis]

Since there will no championship for teams, could it be like in WRC where every team is "a manufacturer"?

See for yourself: http://www.wrc.com/results/2011/cham...manufacturers/

[gttouring]

i suppose they want to balance traveling or keep a race in a few countries, but Petit LeMans not on the schedule?! Road Atlanta is a slugfest of awesomeness and it is always well attended- why?! why wouldnt it be on the schedule?

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Maybe Joest haven't signed a deal with Audi, yet?

That's an interesting thought, even though Audi Motorsport would need to be really desperate to make a change there. But maybe the bad results have pushed them far enough to try something new?

I`m very sure Audi's commitment to the WEC is set in stone for the next few years, the FIA and the ACO would have never pushed forward with this without having word from Audi and Peugeot that they´re in it for the long haul.

[gttouring]

Originally Posted by Mal

I would love the teams to collectively make a stand - if all the factory squads attended PLM instead of Bahrain the it would not affect the result of the championship.

yeah because given the race- Petit is awesome.
given the resources in a desert country with almost zero history of motorsports
AbuDhabi makes a gorgeous wicked cool circuit with a fabulous backdrop and scenery, across the way bahrain makes an eyesore in the featureless desert which has nothing interesting in the way of racing ever happening and is just a dusty test location- i think they squandered an opportunity which YasMarina has shown can be done proper and better.
equally Korea is a sham of a track in the middle of nowhere and is jsut dreadful in its completion and track look- compared to a 95% finished track like Buddh, which looks just great and was rushed the same, and attended better.

two tracks i would Raze and maybe reconsider are Borhain and Snorea...for any sort of racing.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Not that it matters where they run in the Middle-East (apart from obvious politic and humanitarian issues), it's going to be equally tidious and dull. Every sensible person should switch over to PLM anyways.

So you´re telling me you´ll watch a bunch of underfunded LMP1 teams battle with LMPC and GTC cars instead of Audi, Peugeot & Toyota going at it in a field of great cars?

No thanks, I certainly won't switch. The PLM is just a name, without proper entrants the race isn't worth more than any WEC round anywhere in the world. The quality of the race rises and falls with its entrants and it's pretty much impossible that the ALMS will be able to offer anything that comes close to rival the WEC field.

[JHamilton]

I am obviously disappointed to see that PLM was not included in the WEC, but not surprised. I am angry about the schedule conflict. It's obvious that the ALMS made some attempt to accomodate the ACO/FIA by moving the PLM date three weeks later than its tradtional date. I guess they can just move it back.

Hopefully Sebring will be removed from the WEC calendar in 2013. It's not like the WEC would have a following in the US anyway and by only having one race here, certainly no one will care. I'm a hardcore sportscar fan and I don't care. If the ACO want to try to have a one off WEC event in the US, I say keep it, I don't want it.

If any manufacturers want to perform in front of a US audience (in many cases, their largest market), they will have to come and play under our rules. Time to tell the ACO to go suck an egg.

[Acid09]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xma...p-presentation

Very cool!

[JAG]

When the boot was on the other foot and the best European teams and drivers were going to the ALMS European fans gave the series great support, media outlets like RLM and DSC, covered the series as if it was a World Championship based in the states.

For various reasons the series had, and lost, support from Audi, Porsche, Acura, Aston, Chrysler and others, a situation that was directly affecting Le Mans and the LMS.

Given so many ALMS fans believe the series is on it's last legs, and they themselves passed on the opportunity to expand world wide in the early 2000's, I'm not sure what people expected the ACO to do, sit back and let the sport crash as happened when manufactuers withdrew in '99?

I'll be tuning into both the WEC and ALMS, I see them as one and the same, the launch of the former gives the ALMS huge opportunities, the very brands entering the WEC have major interests in NA. There's no reason why Porsche wouldn't want a part, investment and a higher profile for the sport will filter down, they have afterall entered every factory developed car they've built since the first PLM with the 911 GT1 '98.

GA has already tried the, take it or leave it, all American route, now they are backtracting with their idea of GT3 and revised DP's.

[vyselegend]

While I perfectly understand that people are ****ed of the PLM clash, because I'm too, I'm very disapointed to see how certain american members seems to have a very egocentric view of the situation. PLM with that WEC calendar is a loss to all sportscar fans, not especially americans.

Besides, ALMS is not "american racing", it's a great serie of what is called sportscar racing, and it rocks so much that it deserves to be an international level sport. Le Mans is not "french racing" either. For the sake of the argument, if tomorrow the Nordschleiffe was destroyed, it would be every motorsport fan's nightmare, not just german's, don't you agree?

Ok, maybe if NASCAR was disapearing only USA would cry. But I wouldn't be surprised to see that at least half of the ALMS fans are not USA inhabitants. So please stop with that american complex of persecution, and that arrogant view that top level is your country. USA is a great country, but with all due respect, compared to the whole World it's...just another country.

Sure it su*ks that the FIA has pushed for races in places with no motorsport interest instead of places with deep history and large fanbase (as they do with their beloved F1 already), we all agree on that. But the fact that sportscar will jump from national / continental level to a World level can only be considered a positive thing by any true fan of the sport, and the fact it weakens local series in the process is logical too in the current context (ie, when local series/events were the whole of the sport because it's worldwide level had been crushed in the past by a cupid little man).

When things will stabilise themselves, local series won't collapse, but rather reclaim their original purpose: developping talents and feeding the World with them.

If your point is that Bahrein is no match compared to Road Atlanta, well, we can have a beer and agree on how the World is not as it should be. But if your point is that you feel less concerned by an event of your sport when it's not happening in your country, then you're just another nationalist IMO.

Personaly I don't care where the fight is, as long as the tracks are decent and they keep historic classical venues (hence the PLM problem). Let's keep our spirits high and show some solidarity between sportscar fans from everywhere on this forum.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by JAG

When the boot was on the other foot and the best European teams and drivers were going to the ALMS European fans gave the series great support, and media outlets like RLM and DSC, covered the series as if it was a World Championship based in the states.

For various reasons the series had, and lost, support from Audi, Porsche, Acura, Aston, Chrysler and others, a situation that was directly affecting Le Mans and the LMS.

Given so many ALMS fans believe the series is on it's last legs, and they themselves passed on the opportunity to expand world wide in the early 2000's, I'm not sure what people expected the ACO to do, sit back and let the sport crash as happened when manufactuers withdrew in '99?

I'll be tuning into both the WEC and ALMS, I see them as one and the same, the launch of the former gives the ALMS huge opportunities, the very brands entering the WEC have major interests in NA. There's no reason why Porsche wouldn't want a part, investment and a higher profile for the sport will filter down, they have afterall entered every factory developed car they've built since the first PLM with the 911 GT1 '98.

GA has already tried the, take it or leave it, all American route, now they are backtracting with their idea of GT3 and revised DP's.

Based upon the actions of the ACO and recent comments from Neveau, it is not an opportunity for the ALMS, but rather an attempt at a death blow. I hope it is a massive failure... both this attempt and the WEC itself. If attendance counts for anything, outside of LM, I'm sure it will be.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

While I perfectly understand that people are ****ed of the PLM clash, because I'm too, I'm very disapointed to see how certain american members seems to have a very egocentric view of the situation. PLM with that WEC calendar is a loss to all sportscar fans, not especially americans.

Besides, ALMS is not "american racing", it's a great serie of what is called sportscar racing, and it rocks so much that it deserves to be an international level sport. Le Mans is not "french racing" either. For the sake of the argument, if tomorrow the Nordschleiffe was destroyed, it would be every motorsport fan's nightmare, not just german's, don't you agree?

Ok, maybe if NASCAR was disapearing only USA would cry. But I wouldn't be surprised to see that at least half of the ALMS fans are not USA inhabitants. So please stop with that american complex of persecution, and that arrogant view that top level is your country. USA is a great country, but with all due respect, compared to the whole World it's...just another country.

Sure it su*ks that the FIA has pushed for races in places with no motorsport interest instead of places with deep history and large fanbase (as they do with their beloved F1 already), we all agree on that. But the fact that sportscar will jump from national / continental level to a World level can only be considered a positive thing by any true fan of the sport, and the fact it weakens local series in the process is logical too in the current context (ie, when local series/events were the whole of the sport because it's worldwide level had been crushed in the past by a cupid little man).

When things will stabilise themselves, local series won't collapse, but rather reclaim their original purpose: developping talents and feeding the World with them.

If your point is that Bahrein is no match compared to Road Atlanta, well, we can have a beer and agree on how the World is not as it should be. But if your point is that you feel less concerned by an event of your sport when it's not happening in your country, then you're just another nationalist IMO.

Personaly I don't care where the fight is, as long as the tracks are decent and they keep historic classical venues (hence the PLM problem). Let's keep our spirits high and show some solidarity between sportscar fans from everywhere on this forum.

Firstly, calling an American a "nationalist" is not taken as an insult. That's just the culture here, but I totally understand your point.

Secondly, to defend this point of view, we won't see the WEC here. Not on television, at all, ever. If it doesn't happen here, we won't see it here. Our major opportunities to see international sports car racing are at Sebring, Le Mans, and PLM. If the ACO omitted Spa from the WEC, many European fans might be upset and I would, for a moment. At the end of the day, I wouldn't get to see it either way. My point being that I only care about what effects the races I get to see... I know it's self centered but what else am I to do?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Acid09

So you´re telling me you´ll watch a bunch of underfunded LMP1 teams battle with LMPC and GTC cars instead of Audi, Peugeot & Toyota going at it in a field of great cars?

No thanks, I certainly won't switch. The PLM is just a name, without proper entrants the race isn't worth more than any WEC round anywhere in the world. The quality of the race rises and falls with its entrants and it's pretty much impossible that the ALMS will be able to offer anything that comes close to rival the WEC field.

Well, ALMS can provide some real close racing with just a small number of prototypes (mainly thanks to the high number of caution that are thrown in). Road America comes to mind immediately. I´ll watch an ALMS race on an ´old school´ roadtrack (Mosport, Road America, Laguna Seca, etc.) anytime over Zhuhai, Bahrain or even Silverstone!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Secondly, to defend this point of view, we won't see the WEC here. Not on television, at all, ever. If it doesn't happen here, we won't see it here.

http://twitter.com/#!/johndagys/stat...69087871770625

[Gingers4Justice]

Bahrain is a snore fest for F1, but come on - surely you all realise that it won't necessarily be the case with sportscar racing?

I don't think I've ever seen a race that's been made boring in sportscars by cars not being able to overtake.

Sportscar races are made boring when one team has a pace and reliablity advantage. It rarely has something to do with the circuit.

My gripe is not with Bahrain; it is with the Bahrain round clashing with PLM. Personally, I'd make PLM the American round. Sebring has enough prestige and is seen enough of a challenge to be able to pull together a strong grid without World Championship status.

[vyselegend]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Firstly, calling an American a "nationalist" is not taken as an insult. That's just the culture here, but I totally understand your point.

Yes, I know. It wasn't meant at insulting anyone (and hopefully no one felt that way). Still, looking at History, we should all try to stay moderate on that stuff, don't you think?

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Secondly, to defend this point of view, we won't see the WEC here. Not on television, at all, ever. If it doesn't happen here, we won't see it here. Our major opportunities to see international sports car racing are at Sebring, Le Mans, and PLM. If the ACO omitted Spa from the WEC, many European fans might be upset and I would, for a moment. At the end of the day, I wouldn't get to see it either way. My point being that I only care about what effects the races I get to see... I know it's self centered but what else am I to do?

But isn't it a vicious circle? If you keep denigrating initiatives like the WEC with the argument of foreign protectionism, obviously your TV channels won't bother investing in it. If you were massively showing interest in the sport, anouncer and TV partners would be more than happy to serve you. They go where people go in the end, because it's all about advertising money.

Also, with the sports being more and more web orientated, it soon won't matter where you stand to whatch a race (in the worst case you'll need a foreign proxy, but if you're in that case it'd mean an US TV channel have bought the diffusion rights already, so you'll be able to watch it). If you were chinese you'd be in more trouble to reach international stream, so don't complain!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Firstly, calling an American a "nationalist" is not taken as an insult. That's just the culture here, but I totally understand your point.

Secondly, to defend this point of view, we won't see the WEC here. Not on television, at all, ever. If it doesn't happen here, we won't see it here. Our major opportunities to see international sports car racing are at Sebring, Le Mans, and PLM. If the ACO omitted Spa from the WEC, many European fans might be upset and I would, for a moment. At the end of the day, I wouldn't get to see it either way. My point being that I only care about what effects the races I get to see... I know it's self centered but what else am I to do?

Europe isn't one country, Italy doesn't have a race, neither does Germany, in fact three races for the whole of Europe, a continent that provides the majority of manufactuers, constructors, engine builders, teams and drivers is not all that many.

We all watch 99% of races on TV, it doesn't matter in the slightest where they're held, you have European fans who follow NASCAR/Indycar*, US fans following F1, a fuss has been made over PLM's absence from the WEC because it brings into stark view how lacklustre the ALMS's LMP grids have been.

The choice was between an average to fair LMS/ALMS, or a potentially great WEC, with the LMS/ALMS adapting, and potentially improving as the sports profile increases across the board. ALMS needs to gain momentum back from GA and the imminent threat of US DTM, worrying about competing races in China, Bahrain etc., is taking your eye off the ball.

*Reportedly bigger ratings in the UK

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Acid09

So you´re telling me you´ll watch a bunch of underfunded LMP1 teams battle with LMPC and GTC cars instead of Audi, Peugeot & Toyota going at it in a field of great cars?

No thanks, I certainly won't switch. The PLM is just a name, without proper entrants the race isn't worth more than any WEC round anywhere in the world. The quality of the race rises and falls with its entrants and it's pretty much impossible that the ALMS will be able to offer anything that comes close to rival the WEC field.

You can read my answer here

Also, while I like prototypes the main reason I watch these series is because of GT, and that side of things will be amazing at Petit no matter what happens. And the current ALMS GT2 field is the best there is, IMO.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Chiana

You can read my answer here

Also, while I like prototypes the main reason I watch these series is because of GT, and that side of things will be amazing at Petit no matter what happens. And the current ALMS GT2 field is the best there is, IMO.

Even the GT-field is fraying out on the edges with rumors of Risi leaving for greener pastures, a limited shelf-life for the BMWs and shrinking overall grid sizes. And already from 2010 to 2011 we had quite a bit of a decline of the quality of the races with BMW (utilizing probably the worst base-car) steamrollering the competition a few times too many this year.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Even the GT-field is fraying out on the edges with rumors of Risi leaving for greener pastures, a limited shelf-life for the BMWs and shrinking overall grid sizes. And already from 2010 to 2011 we had quite a bit of a decline of the quality of the races with BMW (utilizing probably the worst base-car) steamrollering the competition a few times too many this year.

As long as we have factory-run Corvettes and works-supported Porsche & Ferrari teams on our series I'm happy But seriously, I know we might have seen the highest point of the class already but I'm optimistic, the races we saw this year were still bloody amazing.

As for waiver-restrictor-BMW I'm praying for their withdrawal already.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Bahrain is a snore fest for F1, but come on - surely you all realise that it won't necessarily be the case with sportscar racing?

I don't think I've ever seen a race that's been made boring in sportscars by cars not being able to overtake.

Sportscar races are made boring when one team has a pace and reliablity advantage. It rarely has something to do with the circuit.

My gripe is not with Bahrain; it is with the Bahrain round clashing with PLM. Personally, I'd make PLM the American round. Sebring has enough prestige and is seen enough of a challenge to be able to pull together a strong grid without World Championship status.

100% agree with this. So much 'Borehain' nonsense from largely an upset American fanbase.


In terms of TV coverage it's not as if Europeans are being graced with amazing TV coverage either. On balance (having attended Le Mans) I've watched far more sportscar racing online this year than on TV. That HAS to be an option again next year for a Worldwide audience - even better if they can incorporate a Peugeot TV-style multiple commentary service.

Nice to see a few posters beginning to talk sense on here today.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Chiana

You can read my answer here

Also, while I like prototypes the main reason I watch these series is because of GT, and that side of things will be amazing at Petit no matter what happens. And the current ALMS GT2 field is the best there is, IMO.

Sorry but I have trouble taking your responses seriously when you talk about stuff like "the diesel boredom".

Are you kidding? The Peugeot vs. Audi battle has been the most exciting thing in sports cars for decades...how can you be a fan of sports car racing and not like this?

[TF110]

If Bahrain's track was in America, it'd be a different tune sung here on the thread. Bahrain's track is long twisty and fast. Suitable for LMP's and GTs. Road Atlanta has history but I've felt the track is too 'small' with 40 cars going around it with 50mph differences.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

If Bahrain's track was in America, it'd be a different tune sung here on the thread. Bahrain's track is long twisty and fast. Suitable for LMP's and GTs. Road Atlanta has history but I've felt the track is too 'small' with 40 cars going around it with 50mph differences.

That would be a good "if" if the gripe was about only about the Bahrain track config.

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The Peugeot vs. Audi battle has been the most exciting thing in sports cars for decades...

I think you'll find that accolade belongs to the Ferrari vs. Porsche war.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

I think you'll find that accolade belongs to the Ferrari vs. Porsche war.

Which? In the early 70s? Yes, that's why I said decades.