Toleman TG280 (and Lola T850 & T860)

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

The Haas T860 is interesting, did it ever race over there ?

A surprise to me too. Maybe Chris has spotted it.

[Chris Townsend]

T860-HU1

OT 20.5.81 p.5 DSR tested a Toleman-Lola T860 at Mid Ohio in the week of Aug 3. Jacques Villeneuve did the driving'
Juan Cochesa 17th Road America 1983 in T860 so presumably this one as the Williamson car is a given at this date.
f/s OT 13.4.87 chassis no given as HU1, 'Villeneuve history'

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Sorry, Cochesa result should be 1982, and there may be a few others as my results for that year still have some gaps.

C

[ghinzani]

C8: Constructed for Ford Germany and Zakspeed to test suitability of 1.4 Zakspeed turbo BDA (developed from Capri German championship engine) and delivered to Harold Ertl.
C9: Turbo development chassis for works to accommodate Hart turbo motor.

The Hart test car Henton described as the fastest thing he had ever driven at Goodwood, but had no brakes. I always thought it a shame they didnt enter the mulletta into F1 instead of the Belgrano, with pit stops a year ahead of Gordon Murray it might have been competitive despite the Pirellis - being so small and bereft of tankage it may well have qualified better anyways.

So Zakspeed were thinking of F1 far earlier than 1984 when they debuted their car then? Who knows more about this programme?

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Some details concerning Hillclimb and Sprint Tolemans.

1986 Ray Rowan shunted his Toleman at Doune. The TUB was a write off.

Ray Rowan then buys from Lola the following:
a) A Spare TG280 production tub (T850)
b) A half finished TG280 tub
c) Various suspension components
d) A selection of panels held in store for repairing tubs.

Ray Rowan then set about rebuilding his TG280 around the spare tub.

Rowan then builds up the hal finished TG280 for David Render which becomes TG87/1.

Rowan then uses the spare suspension and chassis panels to construct the Roman IVH.

Steve

We never really did finish this conversation.

The car that Rowan crashed in 1986 appears to have been TG280/5 so its rebuild is still TG280/5 presumably. This car goes to Richard Ames for 1987 (Mason p372) and, as you say, the Toleman TG87 is then produced for Render who raced it through 1990. Rowan planned another car for himself in 1987, a Toleman-DFV but I don't think that appears. That projects turns into the Roman IVH I guess.

But then Nigel Bigwood has a Toleman TG280 for 1988 and I don't know which car that is. Bigwood runs this car in 1989 and, as a 'TG290', in 1990.

Richard Ames sells 280/5 to Clifford for 1988 but then also has a 'TG290' for 1990. Not the Render TG87, not the Clifford car and not the Bigwood car so what was this one?

Any ideas?

Allen

[driftwood]

allen the real car is tg280# 5 that ray had
the last car that Ames had was a bitsa car Ray built 4 of them in BP livery he sprinted race dat thruxton once sold to colins tone for BOSS then part ex for f1 car to Bill Hall
that car was then sold to chris perkins who sold of fteh hart and ft200
chassis was then sold to A N Other and now its back with RR
the render car is a car built in the final 4 cars that ray built for m the pile of left over parts some had tubs made by SPA for him
he made the Roman with the left overs of those parts
the Bigwood car- wa sthis the dfv powered car?
Ray has the last toleman built car not with FT200 but FGB had the larger gbox fitted for larger engine if not dfv car its 2.8 hart that was fitted
DFV toleman was for the old fella that still hillcimbs Tony Marsh ( goes to show that we can still go racing when many have given up!!!) Now Allen go make the list up you want to make!!

[allenbrown]

Yes, the Bigwood car did have a DFV in 1991 but it had a 2-litre Hart when it first appeared in 1988. Was this a Rowan car too?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

allen the real car is tg280# 5 that ray had
the last car that Ames had was a bitsa car Ray built 4 of them in BP livery he sprinted race dat thruxton once sold to colins tone for BOSS then part ex for f1 car to Bill Hall
that car was then sold to chris perkins who sold of fteh hart and ft200
chassis was then sold to A N Other and now its back with RR
the render car is a car built in the final 4 cars that ray built for m the pile of left over parts some had tubs made by SPA for him
he made the Roman with the left overs of those parts
the Bigwood car- wa sthis the dfv powered car?
Ray has the last toleman built car not with FT200 but FGB had the larger gbox fitted for larger engine if not dfv car its 2.8 hart that was fitted
DFV toleman was for the old fella that still hillcimbs Tony Marsh ( goes to show that we can still go racing when many have given up!!!) Now Allen go make the list up you want to make!!

The car that Tony Marsh ran was the ex-Bigwood car however it was by this time fitted with a DFL rather than a DFV.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Yes, the Bigwood car did have a DFV in 1991 but it had a 2-litre Hart when it first appeared in 1988. Was this a Rowan car too?

Yes! In fact Ray Rowan effectively ran the car for Bigwood, attending all the British Sprint Championship rounds that didn't clash with the British Hillclimb Championship week-ends.

Once I have the time I will try to compile a brief history of the Rowan cars!

[dagriff]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/143/3...e2caac.jpg?v=0

Longleat House 1990

[Euromontagna]

What about Toleman TG280 driven by hungarian Pap Laszlo Kalmandy in 1996 in hillclimbs?
http://work.vrchy.com/toleman.jpg

[Euromontagna]

Another datas -
Pedrazza, Toleman TG280 (1983),
Wenk (1986)
Kiss (1987), Nagy (1994) - probably Kalmandy car on the pic, I think it could be ex-Pedrazza car

[driftwood]

yes it is the Pedrazza car i have the car info ex works team car it is for sale
if anyione wants a works car contact me
ran hart in 1980 then converted to BMW

[allenbrown]

Tell us more drifty

[driftwood]

car left uk to austria circa 81 ish & raced in interseries with PRC and bmw
m12
then it went behind the curtain circa 92 ish now sitting in a chums shed now fir sale asa roller

[Euromontagna]

Pedrazza used March F2 (late 79-80), 81?, PRC-March (82), Toleman (83), PRC-March 812 (84) etc with PRC cars

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by driftwood

car left uk to austria circa 81 ish & raced in interseries with PRC and bmw
m12
then it went behind the curtain circa 92 ish now sitting in a chums shed now fir sale asa roller

Would it have been the one sold to Jo Gartner for the 81 season, if so an ex- Docking TG280 I think.

[driftwood]

nope!!!

[pantah]

Not strictly on topic, but related:

I have Royale RP21 Chassis No. 33 as owned and raced by Bob and Ted Toleman / Alex Hawkridge in 1976. Fully restored in original Toleman colours (2 shades of blue with orange stripes). The car can be seen in action at the Harewood Hillclimb last weekend at:

http://www.whatnonegatives.com/2007/...HTML/index.htm

If anyone has any photos of early Toleman racing efforts, I'd like to see them!

Andrew

[TomDawson]

G'day,

I'm helping someone build a replica of a Toleman TG280 by constructing some 3D models for him using TurboCAD. Unfortunetly I know little to nothing about F2 in the 80's or Toleman in general and I was searching for some info including rules and regulations to the series for 1980 when I came across this thread. Anybody got any info? Just about anything at all will be much appreciated, esspecially the dimensions of various parts of the vehicle, namely the chassis, regulations the car met and any interesting pictures, esspecially hi-res.

Thankyou in anticipation.
Tom

[driftwood]

why build a replica at a cost of £20k or so when you can buy a real car with history for less

[TomDawson]

Well as I mentioned this isn't actually my project and I'm really just doing some independant research so I can be as acurate as possible. The main reason I offered assistance in the design was to improve my skills on CAD and, like everyone else, I'd like to be able to build, at least help build a real live racing car.

I can entirely see your point but for me this is something I've been very interested in for a while, its a chance to get some experience and some preperation for a Motorsport Engineering course in University which I hope to be attending in September as well as redesinging an important piece of Motorsport history without actually putting myself out of pocket.

[driftwood]

Hmm your at across roads
Can i suggest the viability of actually working with someone who owns a period race car and assist in that restoration/ rebuild project where you can draw off the real car for your cadcam skill/training and then u can assist in "bettering" the original design

we know today the defects of some older race cars and can correct some errors ( mostly in the aero package) working on maybe some suspension pick up points or even on the construction of say engine fitting kit parts chassis stiffness crash structure etc

Im afraid spending £10-20k building a replica of a 1980-85 F2 car would not be financially viable with the end product selling for less than it cost or what you can buy a period "history" car
If your going to spend hard earned $$££ on building a replica car race make it a model you could never afford like porsche 917 or williams FW07 !!

Maybe the next option is to purchase an old unrestored or even crashed car to work from maybe this covers the cadcam training and the car rebuild side in 1 hit
What Uni are you at? maybe we can direct u towards some local racers
I have car down here that needs rebuild work but if your in Lockerbie your too far away

[dereklola]

Originally Posted by driftwood

why build a replica at a cost of £20k or so when you can buy a real car with history for less

Kevan - have you got a Toleman for 20? - Derek

[TomDawson]

Driftwood, I believe the guy I'm doing this for (Kurt) is in contact with you at the moment looking for similar information, I guess you're telling him pretty much the same thing?

I can completely understand what you mean about it being better to restore a car but that's really Kurt's decision, I'm just looking for something rewarding to do over the summer. Even if he does decide to restore a car or ditch the project all together I still think it would be good practice for me to have created and shown him what the car will look like in 3D, give him an idea of how much work it will take and then he can choose to continue or take your advice.

As I see it I have nothing to lose doing this, I'm not putting any money towards it and I can gain alot of experience on CAD from it, plus I get an idea of what the cars looked like before I was born and perhaps learn something from what they achieved and where they fell short which should ultimatly help me in the future.

If I can get the grades (2 Bs) I should be off to Oxford Brookes Uni and if you're in that area I'd be glad to help you restore yours.


Ignoring the actual car building part for now and focusing on the design, I'm still struggling to find any information at all on the car so if anyone has any...

Just about anything at all will be much appreciated, esspecially the dimensions of various parts of the vehicle, namely the chassis, regulations the car met and any interesting pictures, esspecially hi-res.