ALMS 2013 Discussion

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I am going to be overly ambitions and post what I would like to see in my wildest dreams while being somewhat realistic

P1
1 Highcroft Racing/Audi Sport North America Audi R18 e-tron quattro
6 Muscle Milk Racing Honda ARX-03a
10 Toyota North America Toyota TS030 Hybrid
16 Dyson Racing Lola B12/60 Mazda
20 Dyson Racing Lola B12/60 Mazda

P2
2 Libra Racing Radical SR-10 Ford Ecoboost
7 Merchant Services Racing Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG (Natural Gas)
8 Merchant Services Racing Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG
9 RSR Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG
18 Performance Tech Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG
25 Dempsey Racing Lola B12/80 Mazda
27 Dempsey Racing Lola B12/80 Mazda
37 Conquest Racing Morgan Nissan
50 Panoz Motorsports Delta Wing Nissan
52 PR1/Mathiasen Racing Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG
53 PR1/Mathiasen Racing Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG (Rumored to go to a 2nd Car later this year)
055 Level 5 Motorsports HPD ARX 03b Honda
95 Level 5 Motorsports HPD ARX 03b Honda
05 Core Autosport New LMP2
06 Core Autosport New LMP2

GT1 (I hate the pro/am names)
3 Corvette Racing Corvette C6R ZR1
4 Corvette Racing Corvette C6R ZR1
17 Falken Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
45 Flying Lizards Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
55 BMW RLL BMW Z4 GT2
56 BMW RLL BMW Z4 GT2
91 Viper Racing SRT Viper GTR-S
92 Viper Racing SRT Viper GTR-S
01 Extreme Motorsports Ferrari 458 Italia

GT2
22 Alex Job Racing Lotus Evora GTE
23 Alex Job Racing Lotus Evora GTE
32 GMG Audi R8 (competitive version of GT3)
44 Flying Lizards Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
48 Paul Miller Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
54 Black Swan Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
66 TRG Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
02 Extreme Motorsports Ferrari 458 Italia

P1: 5
P2: 15
GT1: 9
GT2: 8
Total: 37

Never going to happen though

Um, putting P1 back again is like they're competing with ALMS just like how WSCC and IMSA GT did in the 90s. But hey, I think you got a nice line-up there.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

am just hoping that Ed Brown doesn't cut back on the ESM programme, although I don't know if Cosmo or van Overbeek bring anything to it. Would be great to see Cosmo and van Overbeek together for a few races, but I think Brown and Cosmo would be a good combo for Pro-Am.

If Battery Tender and William Rast want to keep going, that'd be great, but I'm guessing the performance of the heavily-waivered Lotus won't keep them on-board and I doubt that car would be on the grid without some Lotus money too. Are William Rast Townsend Bell's sponsors?

I don't know what Brown and Sharp are thinking as far as their program is concerned, and what Brown and Patron are thinking about their overall ALMS involvement. I expect to see the same program in 2013 as this year.

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Alex could easily go back to Porsche

1) I like your fantasy list, it's precisely what I'd like to see. 2) That is true. There are a few RSRs hanging around North America that could find a home in GTE-Am.

Chris

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I am going to be overly ambitions and post what I would like to see in my wildest dreams while being somewhat realistic

P1
1 Highcroft Racing/Audi Sport North America Audi R18 e-tron quattro
6 Muscle Milk Racing Honda ARX-03a
10 Toyota North America Toyota TS030 Hybrid
16 Dyson Racing Lola B12/60 Mazda
20 Dyson Racing Lola B12/60 Mazda

P2
2 Libra Racing Radical SR-10 Ford Ecoboost
7 Merchant Services Racing Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG (Natural Gas)
8 Merchant Services Racing Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG
9 RSR Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG
18 Performance Tech Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG
25 Dempsey Racing Lola B12/80 Mazda
27 Dempsey Racing Lola B12/80 Mazda
37 Conquest Racing Morgan Nissan
50 Panoz Motorsports Delta Wing Nissan
52 PR1/Mathiasen Racing Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG
53 PR1/Mathiasen Racing Oreca FLM09 Chevy NG (Rumored to go to a 2nd Car later this year)
055 Level 5 Motorsports HPD ARX 03b Honda
95 Level 5 Motorsports HPD ARX 03b Honda
05 Core Autosport New LMP2
06 Core Autosport New LMP2

GT1 (I hate the pro/am names)
3 Corvette Racing Corvette C6R ZR1
4 Corvette Racing Corvette C6R ZR1
17 Falken Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
45 Flying Lizards Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
55 BMW RLL BMW Z4 GT2
56 BMW RLL BMW Z4 GT2
91 Viper Racing SRT Viper GTR-S
92 Viper Racing SRT Viper GTR-S
01 Extreme Motorsports Ferrari 458 Italia

GT2
22 Alex Job Racing Lotus Evora GTE
23 Alex Job Racing Lotus Evora GTE
32 GMG Audi R8 (competitive version of GT3)
44 Flying Lizards Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
48 Paul Miller Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
54 Black Swan Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
66 TRG Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
02 Extreme Motorsports Ferrari 458 Italia

P1: 5
P2: 15
GT1: 9
GT2: 8
Total: 37

Never going to happen though

if you dream you must add the 62 Risi Competizione Ferrari 458 Italia.
Dyson Racing and Dempsey Racing should get another car because there is not replacement parts for Lola.
I would like to retrieve the names GTO and GTU for GT categories

[alexkiller8]

giuseppe risi came back to his first job, apparently hasn't anymore the economic warranties to run again in ALMS... i don't think that things will change next year. Watching that list, there is a really science fiction entry...
1) highcroft didn't have the budget to run an arx-03 backed by honda and michelin, how could they run an r18?
2) toyota north america won't never exist, because will be useless for them to run as toyota in north america and not as lexus
3) will hard for dyson to end this season with their lola, 0% of chances to see them again with a lola in the future. (same for dempsey)
4) delta wing could run some race like 6h of laguna seca, but doubt will be a full entry.
5) i really hope that there will be a z4 gte
6) i don't think that AJR will use again a evora after this season... surely they don't desire to have an other one...
7) a GTE version of R8 was rumored since 2011, doubt that will be built.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

giuseppe risi came back to his first job, apparently hasn't anymore the economic warranties to run again in ALMS... i don't think that things will change next year. Watching that list, there is a really science fiction entry...
1) highcroft didn't have the budget to run an arx-03 backed by honda and michelin, how could they run an r18?
2) toyota north america won't never exist, because will be useless for them to run as toyota in north america and not as lexus
3) will hard for dyson to end this season with their lola, 0% of chances to see them again with a lola in the future. (same for dempsey)
4) delta wing could run some race like 6h of laguna seca, but doubt will be a full entry.
5) i really hope that there will be a z4 gte
6) i don't think that AJR will use again a evora after this season... surely they don't desire to have an other one...
7) a GTE version of R8 was rumored since 2011, doubt that will be built.

1. I guess they could if Audi payed them enough $$$, but why they would want to invest millions in what is the joke of an LMP1 class in the ALMS is beyond me.

2. I can see Toyota wanting the TS030 stateside for marketing reasons, however a lone WEC round would provide that. Although, to be honest, I wouldn't be suprised to see them do a one-off at Laguna or Long Beach in California, I just can't see them investing in a full ALMS schedule.

3. Dyson is a massive question mark for 2013, will the team continue with the Lolas, go to an HPD, leave the ALMS P1 class for P2, GT or DP in Grand Am, shut down? I honestly don't know. Although it would appear that Dyson is becoming less of a professional team. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Dempsey Racing will race a Kodewa LMP2 in the World Endurance Championship (unless a new closed top P2 option comes from Oreca)

4. I see this going the way of the Abruzzi, sadly.

5. I really hope so as well.

6. God only knows what AJR will do, if the GTC is removed and replaced by GTE Am, I wouldn't be suprised to see them either upgrade to the RSR or go race in Grand Am GT.

7. Agree, IMSA and the ACO seem to be defiant with this, sadly, and I doubt we will see an R8 in the ALMS in the near future.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

There are a few RSRs hanging around North America that could find a home in GTE-Am.

Chris

And that could be death for the Lotus as well. Alex could find it easier to be like TRG and run a couple GTE-AM cars for some lucky rich *******s. As painful as it sounds GTE-AM could be what helps keep the series afloat. Bring in some more Ed Browns and some new big sponsors.

[NightStalk3r]

I don't see how GTE-AM is going to bring in any more rich punters than GTC or LMPC would.

if anything it would push teams away as the running cost for a GTE car is far more.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

giuseppe risi came back to his first job, apparently hasn't anymore the economic warranties to run again in ALMS... i don't think that things will change next year. Watching that list, there is a really science fiction entry...
1) highcroft didn't have the budget to run an arx-03 backed by honda and michelin, how could they run an r18?
2) toyota north america won't never exist, because will be useless for them to run as toyota in north america and not as lexus
3) will hard for dyson to end this season with their lola, 0% of chances to see them again with a lola in the future. (same for dempsey)
4) delta wing could run some race like 6h of laguna seca, but doubt will be a full entry.
5) i really hope that there will be a z4 gte
6) i don't think that AJR will use again a evora after this season... surely they don't desire to have an other one...
7) a GTE version of R8 was rumored since 2011, doubt that will be built.

1) Honda wasn't providing much money, nor was Michelin. (If any?) Their run at Sebring and the intended appearance at Le Mans in 2011 was a last ditch effort to find funding and keep the team alive. They failed to do so. Duncan Dayton has the capacity to run a program out of pocket as his Lola program proved. An Audi program would likely come with funding and engineers if not mechanics as well. The reason it is rumored is because he "spoke to Audi" at Le Mans. Audi in Germany are in favor of an ALMS program, Audi of America was the hurdle last time.

2) They have as much reason to call themselves Toyota as they do Lexus. I really don't understand your point here.

3) The Lola situation isn't solved. The company isn't dead yet. They need a savior and one may well come. Dempsey and Dyson's 2013 programs will hinge on a Lola solution more than anything. But as far as we know, while exploring other options, both seem to be pushing ahead with Lola for now.

4) I could see a full season Deltawing effort. Would be interesting to see if Nissan of America gets invested in the program. But the program does have roots and major backers here anyway, so who knows what the future of the car will be?

6) Who knows what Lotus is doing with that program? But Bill Sweedler put AJR and Lotus in their marriage and unless he decides he wants to race something else there is no reason to believe the Lotus goes away.

7) Private teams keep pushing for it, and AoA and AG are in agreement that it would be nice to sell and service more cars in America. Who knows? Maybe they get their stall test issue sorted at an acceptable price. (Or by waiver, which would be very inexpensive.)

Chris

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

I don't see how GTE-AM is going to bring in any more rich punters than GTC or LMPC would.

if anything it would push teams away as the running cost for a GTE car is far more.

Exactly, the only people I see running in GTE Am are the current team's second car ie ESM and FLM and perhaps somebody like Alex Job plus Black Swan. Instead of buying a new GTE car a GTC team could easily do IMSA GT3 or Grand Am GT for significantly less.


I don't see how this is going to help the ALMS except for getting rid of spec racing.


Also, what happens if Dyson leaves LMP1? Can you really have a one car overall class???

[chernaudi]

It's been confirmed during Speed's LM24 broadcast that Duncan Dayton was seen snooping around the Audi Sport paddock and garages and that he may've had talks with Wolfgang Ulrich, Rupert Stadler, and Martin Wintercorn (Audi Sport boss, Audi AG chairman and Volkswagen Group chairman respectivly). Can't really conclude much at this stage, though.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Exactly, the only people I see running in GTE Am are the current team's second car ie ESM and FLM and perhaps somebody like Alex Job plus Black Swan. Instead of buying a new GTE car a GTC team could easily do IMSA GT3 or Grand Am GT for significantly less.


I don't see how this is going to help the ALMS except for getting rid of spec racing.


Also, what happens if Dyson leaves LMP1? Can you really have a one car overall class???

I've been saying that GTE-Am won't result in an expansion, rather a contraction as compared to GTC's peak. I fear TRG is gone for sure, as they trumpet the single-make nature (and particularly the Porsche-single-maked-ness) of GTC. However, guys like Mike Hedlund appear to be intrigued by the GTE-Am route, Black Swan is likely going that way, and any Audi if it is to appear would likely be in GTE-Am, and if Alex Job has an ALMS program I bet it is with Loti in GTE-Am at this point.

Obviously options are thin, as is money, especially with a rules change coming in 2014, but it would be a fairly dramatic shake-up for Dyson to leave P1 after this season. I suspect they run one Lola in 2013, with an outside shot at selling seats in the old generation car to somebody, and we have another year of a three-car field in P1. Worst case scenario, Dyson and Smith limp through the end of 2013 in what is essentially a five year old car; the B"11"/"66" wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

I really hope the Lola situation gets sorted out before January 2013...

Chris

[Speed-King]

I fear TRG is gone for sure, as they trumpet the single-make nature (and particularly the Porsche-single-maked-ness) of GTC.

Well, TRG are none too happy with how things in GA are going either, so GTE-Am actually might be their only choice left.

As for the Audis: GTE-Am requires cars in last year's spec. Since there isn't a 2011 GTE-spec Audi I am not sure they could qualify for AM. Remember how Waltrip had to race in Pro last year at LM because they had then-new 458?

[gregtummer]

Assuming their isn't an overlap WEC race that same weekend, anyone think Audi and Toyota and maybe a few more LMPs might come over to race 2013 Petit Le Mans?

I figured they might try to win a big enduro and get as much use out of their soon to be obsolete cars.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

1. I guess they could if Audi payed them enough $$$, but why they would want to invest millions in what is the joke of an LMP1 class in the ALMS is beyond me.

Yeah, would it be nice if they just leave LMP1 for WEC... I mean, with only a tiny amount of LMP1 cars this year and the possibility of losing one (or two) because of the Lola debacle, there's no way that LMP1 in ALMS will survive in 2013.

But if all else fails, why not ditch the LMP cars and concentrate on GT cars. Maybe they could merge Grand-Am if they can ditch their DPs too.

[Dyson Mazda]

Assuming their isn't an overlap WEC race that same weekend, anyone think Audi and Toyota and maybe a few more LMPs might come over to race 2013 Petit Le Mans?

I figured they might try to win a big enduro and get as much use out of their soon to be obsolete cars.

The would not be any need to if they put American teams in the States and there have been rumors that both manufacturers had meetings at Le Mans.

All of these Audi R8 problems can be solved by a wavier. The ALMS does not have to follow strict ACO rules.

Also do you guys think there is 0 chance that P2 and PC merge. It gives you a really nice class if they go that route.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Also do you guys think there is 0 chance that P2 and PC merge. It gives you a really nice class if they go that route.

Hmm, it would be better if they would add LMP1 too. But the problem is how will they balance between LMP cars.

[The Badger]

Libra , first on the list in P2 ..... your aving a giraffe mate !!!

[extramundane]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I fear TRG is gone for sure, as they trumpet the single-make nature (and particularly the Porsche-single-maked-ness) of GTC.

If the Steve Bertheaus and Emilio DiGuidas of the world brought the cash, I'm sure Buckler would be more than happy to run a GT-Am program for them. If.

But yes, I do agree that at least in the short-term, creating a GT-Am class in ALMS is going to cleave the only watchable class into two smaller, less interesting classes. I'd wager that a couple of the GTC 'gentlemen' might make the step into Am, and you might see someone like Krohn or Waltrip enter some more ALMS rounds, but I don't see it as being overall a stellar idea.

Then again, GTC's a dud as a single-make class and GT3 seems to be a beehive just waiting to be kicked over, so I'm not sure WTF they should do at this point.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by extramundane

If the Steve Bertheaus and Emilio DiGuidas of the world brought the cash, I'm sure Buckler would be more than happy to run a GT-Am program for them. If.

But yes, I do agree that at least in the short-term, creating a GT-Am class in ALMS is going to cleave the only watchable class into two smaller, less interesting classes. I'd wager that a couple of the GTC 'gentlemen' might make the step into Am, and you might see someone like Krohn or Waltrip enter some more ALMS rounds, but I don't see it as being overall a stellar idea.

Then again, GTC's a dud as a single-make class and GT3 seems to be a beehive just waiting to be kicked over, so I'm not sure WTF they should do at this point.

With the similarities between GTC Cup cars and those used in Grand Am / world challenge, would it be a stretch to create a set of rules to essentially open up GTC to "that" sort of car? That is, fairly standard proportion body work, lower aero grip and lower power than GTE, but still a mixed class of power plants, makes, models, etc. I'm not a huge fan of tube-framers, but I have to admit to really getting into Grand Am GT this year, and I wouldn't say no to seeing rotaries, V8s and more thrown into that GTC class. This would also cover the R8 since it's in both Grand AM and WC..

I think GT3 is too close to GTE to be an option.

So here goes:

LMP - Combined prototype class of P1/2. Possible one year transitional package for LMPC that will put them in the hunt, but ideally no. One prototype class, period. The only issue would be with Pickett wanting to do Le Mans, we would need to create a way to keep him legal for that race in P1...and keep him in the series.

LMPC - GONE

GT - GTE spec, all pros or pro-ams, but no "Am" category.

GTC - GT Cup car class, significantly opened rules for a wide range of makes and models, with significantly less aero than GTE. Look to GA GT or WC GT for the basic model and refine from there.

[Dyson Mazda]

LMP - Combined prototype class of P1/2. Possible one year transitional package for LMPC that will put them in the hunt, but ideally no. One prototype class, period. The only issue would be with Pickett wanting to do Le Mans, we would need to create a way to keep him legal for that race in P1...and keep him in the series.

You cannot combine P1 and P2. The cars are too far apart and there is no reason for it. You would tick off a lot of the pro/am drivers in the process as well.

[WolfsburgRS]

Yeah but two classes with 2-3 cars is a bit pathetic. You can say "it will get better" for one year, I'll give IMSA a pass for that. We're getting through year 2 of these sort of numbers, and there don't appear to be any lines forming of eager would-be competitors at this point for 2013. Something has to be done, status quo does not appear to be working.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

You cannot combine P1 and P2. The cars are too far apart and there is no reason for it. You would tick off a lot of the pro/am drivers in the process as well.

Dyson needs a new car anyway, so that leaves Pickett. Maybe something can be worked out there - put the P2 lump into the P1 and leave the rest to BoP. Might be a bit messy, but it would run at P2 weight and power so I don't see it being too bad.

As for the Pro/Am thing: Give them an award or trophy or whatever...

[Alba]

If Picket has ambitions of getting a Porsche or supported Honda his ultimate ambitions may lay elsewhere. With Dyson it seems the ideal time to move to the Mazda diesel, but only if lmp2 is top class.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

I don't see how GTE-AM is going to bring in any more rich punters than GTC or LMPC would.

if anything it would push teams away as the running cost for a GTE car is far more.

So there aren't any guys out there who might be a life long Ferrari or Vette fan that runs in a lower series that might be interested in moving up? Especially any Ferrari Challenge guys that have a convenient Ferrari experienced team looking for some cash to run again this season? I'm not saying there is a line of guys just waiting but the option out there could add a team or two. The pessimistic whinging on here is getting out of control, either watch and enjoy it or move on to something else if you think it's going to collapse on itself.

And with that I'm taking at least a month break as it's summer and if I want to be depressed I'll just work 12 hours a day. Sportscars should be my break and enjoyable, not a painful task of weeding through the moaning about how much smarter everyone is than the series/team managers and owners.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Dyson needs a new car anyway, so that leaves Pickett. Maybe something can be worked out there - put the P2 lump into the P1 and leave the rest to BoP. Might be a bit messy, but it would run at P2 weight and power so I don't see it being too bad.

As for the Pro/Am thing: Give them an award or trophy or whatever...

I think that Pickett should not have trouble for changing your ARX03A for ARX03B and racing in LMP2.