WTCC rules from 2009 - what do we think ? - Page 4

**FIRE** · 10 Oct 2007, 16:43 (Ref:2037013)

Quote:

This is a summary of suggested changes for the 2009 season that we have received:

- 1,8-2,0 liter turbo charged engines
- Standardized sequential gearbox
- Standardized wheelbase
- More standardized parts like differential, suspension parts, etc.

Source: http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=1501

More standardized parts is a good move.

redshoes · 10 Oct 2007, 17:11 (Ref:2037029)

- 1,8-2,0 liter turbo charged engines
turbo-diesel maybe, turbo petrol sounds like the road to some expensive development

- Standardized sequential gearbox
good

- Standardized wheelbase
no, it's a short step to silhouettes

- More standardized parts like differential, suspension parts, etc.
again good

PorscheFanNo1 · 10 Oct 2007, 17:55 (Ref:2037059)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

- 1,8-2,0 liter turbo charged engines
turbo-diesel maybe, turbo petrol sounds like the road to some expensive development

- Standardized sequential gearbox
good

- Standardized wheelbase
no, it's a short step to silhouettes

- More standardized parts like differential, suspension parts, etc.
again good

Moving towards Silhouettes = bad
Moving towards Spec-serie = good

Wheres the logics in that?

redshoes · 10 Oct 2007, 18:03 (Ref:2037064)

The outgoing BTCC regs used spec gearbox/suspension/hubs etc, yet we managed to get a range of shapes and sizes - everything from a Civic to a Peugeot 406.

How do you build a 406 with the same wheelbase as a Civic?

Ellmau · 10 Oct 2007, 19:24 (Ref:2037155)

You don't, and that's maybe the good thing

No more hatchbacks!

**FIRE** · 10 Oct 2007, 20:28 (Ref:2037212)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellmau

You don't, and that's maybe the good thing

No more hatchbacks!

Or BMW has to switch to 120i and Chevrolet to Lacetti 5-door.

Ellmau · 10 Oct 2007, 21:03 (Ref:2037243)

You're killing me man!

429CJ · 10 Oct 2007, 21:05 (Ref:2037245)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Or BMW has to switch to 120i and Chevrolet to Lacetti 5-door.

BMW using their new 1-series coupé, Chevrolet racing with Cobalt and Seat, well, Seat can go and blow something for making only ugly hatchbacks and even uglier people carriers and be replaced by VW with their Eos.

redshoes · 10 Oct 2007, 21:16 (Ref:2037259)

Look at the old DTM Audi TT which was stretched to be the same wheelbase as the Merc C-Classe, and looked awkwardly out of proportion as a result.

Changing wheelbase means you can no longer use a production shell. I know that they don't actually use an off-the-shelf "production" shell now but it's still the same dimensions. Ditch the steel shell and it's not long before you go down the plastic-bodied spaceframe route.

racer69 · 11 Oct 2007, 04:44 (Ref:2037397)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

S2000 is working, leave it alone, no tweaking is required...

Isn't it all the tweaking they are constantly doing this year that is making it 'work'?

werner · 11 Oct 2007, 08:17 (Ref:2037466)

It's a shame, the fia has to do that so often, but they are doining it quite well. If Farfus didn't have his clash with Tarquini, there would have been 3 drivers within 1 point of eachother at the finale.

Koulle · 11 Oct 2007, 13:37 (Ref:2037726)

I like the idea of standardized parts, it worked very well in BTCC.

I'm not sure about the idea of a standardized wheelbase though.

Sodemo · 11 Oct 2007, 14:32 (Ref:2037762)

Lots of near-silent turbo diesels would be an instant turn off for me.

They need to nip that one in the bud before it gets out of hand.

**FIRE** · 13 Oct 2007, 15:04 (Ref:2039268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

- 1,8-2,0 liter turbo charged engines
turbo-diesel maybe, turbo petrol sounds like the road to some expensive development

New Subaru Impreza hatchback? [probably not be because of their WRC involvment]

Other manufacturers with turbo engines only? Saab?

**touringlegend** · 13 Oct 2007, 15:08 (Ref:2039270)

A lot of small hot hatches like the Corsa VXR (not sure what the Opel equivalent is called - OPC ?) now use small turbo engines - I think from a lot of manufacturers points of views this is a technology they are hoping to pursue.

Also changed the name of the thread as the previous 'statement' that it was going to RWD was misleading.

johntt · 13 Oct 2007, 15:13 (Ref:2039272)

Road cars are moving towards small capacity high revvinbg turbos to meet emissions regulations. Ford have said that the next gen Mondeo is unlikely to have a 2.0i petrol and will have a 1.6t instead as the de facto petrol engine.

Those regs could open the possibilty of seat using VW's 1.4 twincharge engine.

**FIRE** · 3 Nov 2007, 17:21 (Ref:2058704)

Quote:

According to our information the World Touring Car Championship will not introduce brand new rules for the 2009 season.
...
TouringCarTimes has received a list of some of the changes that are reported to be on the way to be introduced:

- Equalizing width of the cars
- Freeing up the rules regarding the suspension
- Changed valve sizes
- Improving safety
- Increased homologation size
- Sequential gearbox only
- Rolling start in both races (not in 2008)
- Further changing of the base rules between RWD/FWD cars
...

Full article at Touring Car Times

Quote:

- Freeing up the rules regarding the suspension

More like BTC?

duke_toaster · 4 Nov 2007, 10:51 (Ref:2059208)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

More like BTC?

Possibly, a BTC-T type setup would be good to make the cars a bit tougher

Fechna · 4 Nov 2007, 10:54 (Ref:2059210)

That´s a relief for me!

And I think the minor changes all sound sensible. It´s a good way.

The only thing I would suggest is to overthink the S2000 exceptions. There have to be some, but please, with clear rules that doesn´t differ from track to track. That would mean:

- A clear weight difference between FWD and RWD, that has to be stable and can only be changed once a season, if needed.

- A flat bottom for cars with a clearly in the windtunnel measurable aerodynamic
disadvantage

- and clear and well balanced rules for engines with 2l petrol, 2l diesel, and smaller turbo petrol cars

With the planed changes (all starts rolling, all sequential gearboxes, and some more standarised parts) that should be it.

No more weight adapting from weekend to weekend, no more helping for teams with worse developed cars, weight only given from the writen rules.

Changed weight, aerodynamic or engine rules (RWD vs. FWD, or Petrol vs. Diesel, etc) only twice a season if needed with announced dates before the first race.

With the penalty weight still every better works car should be able to win throughout the season, all manufacturers should be happy with that, and the results would be more, lets say closer to the drivers and teams performance thoughout the year.

Sodemo · 4 Nov 2007, 17:18 (Ref:2059382)

A lot of these sound like they are trying to handicap the BMW's...

All rolling starts = BMW start advantage removed.
All sequential gearbox = BMW weight advantage levelled off further.

Alfa Fan · 4 Nov 2007, 17:42 (Ref:2059396)

Tbh, they should just have taken BTC-Touring rules back in 02 and we'd have none of these problems. They're not perfect, but they're a LOT better than S2000 will ever be.

duke_toaster · 4 Nov 2007, 17:48 (Ref:2059404)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfa Fan

Tbh, they should just have taken BTC-Touring rules back in 02 and we'd have none of these problems. They're not perfect, but they're a LOT better than S2000 will ever be.

I'm not sure about that, but a hybrid of the two would be excellent.

Sodemo · 4 Nov 2007, 19:28 (Ref:2059488)

The only thing wrong (in my opinion) with the BTC regs were those ridiculous looking rear wings that are totally disproportionate to the cars they are on. It makes every car look like a rolling joke.

Ellmau · 4 Nov 2007, 19:48 (Ref:2059514)

So basically BTC reg's were how the regs should be?

THIM · 5 Nov 2007, 17:21 (Ref:2060431)

- Equalizing width of the cars - What for? To let more narrow hatches compete?

- Freeing up the rules regarding the suspension - I thought cars are already faster in the corners, than on the straights...

- Improving safety - what more can be done?

- Sequential gearbox only - I like variety, but if it will bring more justice, OK. But I doubt it.

- Rolling start in both races (not in 2008) - NOOOO

- Further changing of the base rules between RWD/FWD cars - OK, but I want them equal...

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