Msv & Brscc

[Al Weyman]

I totally agree and have been having this argument since the 80's when we started the Racing Saloon car Club but Hot Hatch is not an option for someone of my bulk as I would be giving away maybe 50 or 60kgs to a lighter driver and that would be noticable in that type of competition and besides that its just not a bit of me. This just hyping fees up is absolutely ridiculous, a mate of mine has just quit maybe for ever and he was a great and long term competitor, the £175 entry fee was one of the reasons and he is not skint at all but he cannot justify spending that tyoe of money anymore and I will not be racing again if they start sticking prices up by any more than a nominal amount, we want them to come down not go up for crying out loud cant they at last see this.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by kelvin88

i know Al, the thing is if you look at british motorsport across the board the BRSCC are pricing people out of it. the competitors are voting with their feet. if you wanna race that bad, you can BUILD a stock hatch for what you save in entry fees! Its not for everyone though. I, for example, refuse to race anything slower than my tow vehicle! What i dont understand is what this money is going to. And as their grid numbers fall the answer seems to lie in raising entry fee at a time when people just cant afford it. And when we compare prices we are not talking £20 £30 pounds in some cases the BRSCC are charging twice what the 750mc are! If you did that in your shop, Al,charging double your competitors, you wouldnt be there long would you? and if it was your "overheads" causing it,you would have to move!

You are assuming that the clubs believe that they are operating in a competitive environment.

Or indeed that they actually ARE operating in a competitive environment!

I don't think they are.

It will take someone like the MSVR or the CTCRC to start runninng more 'bargain' events and take annual membership fees away from the big clubs for them to sit up, take notice and react.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

It will take someone like the MSVR or the CTCRC to start runninng more 'bargain' events and take annual membership fees away from the big clubs for them to sit up, take notice and react.

That would take the CTCRC not requiring BARC membership, then. Didn't the club get it's organising license this year, after the Stowe events? So will they not need to run under the BARC banner anymore?

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by teej

That would take the CTCRC not requiring BARC membership, then. Didn't the club get it's organising license this year, after the Stowe events? So will they not need to run under the BARC banner anymore?

Yes it did.

In theory, it wouldn't NEED to run under the BARC any more. Hopefully the BARC are at least a little bit jittery now.

[ss_collins]

The BRSCC for a long time has been a problem with club motorsport, it has had problems with its staff in the past, overly high entry fees for club racers, attempts to run or 'steal' other series Opens Sports Racers for example.

Basically I feel that if the BRSCC went under it would be to the benefit of british motorsport. They have ha an unfair advantage for a few years - for example with Haymarket publications 750MC and BARC have to pay to advertise thier events in Motorsport News and Autosport (quite right too) but the BRSCC do not I suspect they don pay for thier very large stand at Autosport either though all other clubs do. But guess which club gets the best spot...

Isn't it now time to fundamentally rethink the way club racing works in the UK. My feeling is that it is.

I feel that there are too many different series to survive, and many could be dropped as they serve little or no purpose. Perhaps racing should move away from the series and championship structure and look for something else.

Perhaps the MSA should establish common classes for all cars broadly separated into three types Sports & Protoypes, Historics, Saloons and Single Seaters. Each type of car will have a separate class structure into which all vehicles should fit. Technical details could be discussed elsewhere.
Every race in the UK could score points towards a national table which would then allow perhaps the top 15-30 from each class nationally to meet each other in a runoff event.

Tracks could then run their own meetings, with big trophies and proper promotion. Certain series would remain, Vee for example and Legends, the sort of things that don’t fit in but also get huge fields. Everyone would have somewhere to race and a decent class structure would mean that there would always be someone to race against. Tracks would be forced to keep entry fees down as they would not get good entries otherwise, also the extra cost of clubs and championship registrations would be done away with (apart from in the few surviving championships). Most tracks already have the ability to do race entries, and similar, they just don’t tend to.

Then once a year you would have these mega events where the best drivers and cars in the UK get together and race to see who is quickest…

And relax…

[Stephen Green]

For many years the BRSCC ran the Racing Car Show which I believe was taken over by Haymarket some years ago. I imagine there was a deal done at the time giving the BRSCC a stand etc?

[Rod Birley]

The BARC no longer have a stand at the NEC (too expensive?). The south east centre will be at Excel next weekend, because it is in their area.

[youngoldy]

Originally Posted by youngoldy

Perhaps MSV could start up its own race club?



MSVR then?

Erm, no clever cloggs. What I meant was something along the lines of having its own regional race clubs, such MSVNW, and MSVSouth. MSVR is a national race club.

[Rod Birley]

In the latest issue of BRSCC news, it states that the club is unlikely to make a profit this year (chairman's review) and part of this is blamed on "on going difficulties with MSV venues". So there you have it.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Well, whatever the opposite of a vicious circle is... a benign circle perhaps!? . . . .

A virtuous circle is the common management jargon.

Jim

[Novice]

Originally Posted by Don Truman

It is a fact of life-if the circuit hire charge or any other charge goes up- of necessity entry fees will have to rise otherwise the organizer goes broke.
Don Truman

I would agree with this statement if the grids were full but we all know that not all of the grids are. They will shrink if you raise the entry cost, you then receive less money. But if you were to lower the entry price you may be pleasantly suprised at get more entries and actually make a bit of money.

Go on, be bold BRSCC and try it, people might respect you for it.

[simes43]

Originally Posted by Rod Birley

In the latest issue of BRSCC news, it states that the club is unlikely to make a profit this year (chairman's review) and part of this is blamed on "on going difficulties with MSV venues". So there you have it.

"on going difficulties with MSV venues".

Or

Our inept mismanagement has created a set of economic issues that we can only blame ourselves for. So to that end, the perfectly reasonable MSV will have to share the blame.

I wonder if the BRSCC listens to MSV as badly as it listens to its (ex) members.

[big andy]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

The BRSCC for a long time has been a problem with club motorsport, it has had problems with its staff in the past, overly high entry fees for club racers, attempts to run or 'steal' other series Opens Sports Racers for example.

Basically I feel that if the BRSCC went under it would be to the benefit of british motorsport. They have ha an unfair advantage for a few years - for example with Haymarket publications 750MC and BARC have to pay to advertise thier events in Motorsport News and Autosport (quite right too) but the BRSCC do not I suspect they don pay for thier very large stand at Autosport either though all other clubs do. But guess which club gets the best spot...

Isn't it now time to fundamentally rethink the way club racing works in the UK. My feeling is that it is.

I feel that there are too many different series to survive, and many could be dropped as they serve little or no purpose. Perhaps racing should move away from the series and championship structure and look for something else.

Perhaps the MSA should establish common classes for all cars broadly separated into three types Sports & Protoypes, Historics, Saloons and Single Seaters. Each type of car will have a separate class structure into which all vehicles should fit. Technical details could be discussed elsewhere.
Every race in the UK could score points towards a national table which would then allow perhaps the top 15-30 from each class nationally to meet each other in a runoff event.

Tracks could then run their own meetings, with big trophies and proper promotion. Certain series would remain, Vee for example and Legends, the sort of things that don’t fit in but also get huge fields. Everyone would have somewhere to race and a decent class structure would mean that there would always be someone to race against. Tracks would be forced to keep entry fees down as they would not get good entries otherwise, also the extra cost of clubs and championship registrations would be done away with (apart from in the few surviving championships). Most tracks already have the ability to do race entries, and similar, they just don’t tend to.

Then once a year you would have these mega events where the best drivers and cars in the UK get together and race to see who is quickest…

this is the way motorsport should be run

[Mod]Big Andy please don't quote entire posts in your responses. I've edited this one to identify the quoted comments.[/Mod]

[kelvin88]

Denis, why do you think the BRSCC is not in a competitve enviroment?
and could some one tell me how to add quotes to posts please? im not very good with computer things...

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by Rod Birley

In the latest issue of BRSCC news, it states that the club is unlikely to make a profit this year (chairman's review) and part of this is blamed on "on going difficulties with MSV venues". So there you have it.

As a club that exists purely for the benefit of its members, I'm far from sure why it should make a profit?

[Al Weyman]

Hmm, often wondered that myself. I mean can we as members to a club claim a chunk of it?

[Ian Sowman]

No, is the simple answer.

I agree with John in that, in the long run, a club should - ideally - break even. But do you suggest that the finances should be manipulated such that break even point is reached each year? I can't see any kind of sense in that at all.

If a club does make a profit, one would like to think that it is re-invested for the benefit of its members.

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by kelvin88

...and could some one tell me how to add quotes to posts please? im not very good with computer things...

If you mean like I just did: just click on the "quote" button in the post and add your reply.
Little tip: delete all the extra sentences from the quote if it is a very long one so to make your point more clear.
See above.

[Stephen Green]

I don't think anyone has a problem with a club showing a profit. In the majority of cases the money is left to accumulta euntil there is a large capital expenditure item to fund or something similar.

[kelvin88]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

If you mean like I just did: just click on the "quote" button in the post and add your reply.
See above.

thanks Eddy!!

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

I don't think anyone has a problem with a club showing a profit. In the majority of cases the money is left to accumulta euntil there is a large capital expenditure item to fund or something similar.

Depends.

Of course, they should show modest profits. These could be saved towards something previously identified as needed by the club/membership.

Not until someone invents a new championship and they lose hundreds of thousands pounds on it, as has I believe happened on more than one occasion.

[Stephen Green]

Well thats another story John.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by kelvin88

Denis, why do you think the BRSCC is not in a competitve enviroment?

As with most clubs their race series are generally aimed at 'niche' markets. Eg Alfa Romeo, Jedi's, Tuscan, Fiat, Fiesta, Fords, XR's, FPA, 924's, VW's, VSR's etc.

If you want to race one of these particular types of cars you only have one place to go - the BRSCC.

As I said, most of the clubs are the same with their own flavours.

In fact this 'monopoly' is actively enforced by the MSA who are supposed to stop two similar championships with similar rules being run.

Now, if some bright spark was to somehow replicate the BRSCC (or any other clubs) championships but offer some form of value added feature (say lower entry fees, two races for the price of one, advantagous circuit location etc) then how long would the BRSCC's championships last? All they would need was half a dozen competitors from each group to make the move and there would quickly be a mass exodous.

Alternatively the main players in each championship could inistigate this themselves, especially if the own the championship permit.

However, nobody is going to do this and the BRSCC knows it.

Except this is now happening but the BRSCC either don't seem to be taking any notice or are genuinely powerless to do anything about it.

[kelvin88]

Ok. so what we are saying is,hypotheticly, err.. lets use Fiats as an example. the Fiat series got a "yellow" card for low grid numbers this year however i beleive i have seen good grids for their series in the past so cars for the series must still be about. This is a formula that has cheap cars and close racing for the competitor. If the drivers got together and asked the 750mc to run a Fiat series, would the MSA stop them? I, of course, dont know if entry fees and such are the reason there is less cars in this formula than there has been. But i know if the drivers dont do something then the series will not get better. I dont see the BRSCC doing anything to help these club members.

[greenamex2]

It COULD help.

One or two drivers may return immediately, some of their old chums may see a resurgence and join in a few races later and hey presto, a healthy series again.

If nothing else it could stop the 'drain' of drivers who were slowly running out of money.

Of course it may do nothing in which case the only solution may be to merge them with a similar series.

Like you said though, at the moment the BRSCC (and the other clubs) seem to be doing NOTHING at the moment which is helping neither themselves or their members. In my mind this is bordering on negligent.

It is fortunate that some of the series have taken it on themselves to do something (eg Mod Prods and Classic Thunder).