Spectator interest

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by JAG

A link up between RLM, Embassy, Audi/Peugeot and other interested teams/sponsors maybe a goer.

That could indicate the ACO's scepticism - no precious bank notes rolling in from a manufacturer to fund it in the LMS in the past.

[AU N EGL]

IMSA ( ALMS ) Spectator and Media info

http://www.americanlemans.com/news/Article.aspx?ID=2721

TV Viewership

TV viewership increased internationally as well. With MotorsTV and Greenlight Productions leading the way, the American Le Mans Series now boasts one of the most widely distributed motorsports series in the world with a potential viewing audience of more than 520 million homes to more than 100 countries.

Grand Am ( Rolex ) Spectator and Media info

http://www.grandamerican.com/News/Article.asp?ID=7420

TV and Spectators:

With a four percent increase in ratings on SPEED, and eight percent jumps in households and viewership, Rolex Series races attracted nearly a quarter million viewers per race. SPEED has been the home of the Rolex Series since its inception in 2000, and television ratings for Rolex Series races regularly rank among the top-tier of road racing series on the motorsports network.
The rise in television viewership goes hand-in-hand with attendance at the races, as overall race attendance saw an increase of 25 percent over 2006, with the largest gains coming at the Rolex 24 At Daytona, the Linder Industrial Komatsu Grand Prix of Miami and the Porsche 250 presented by Bradley Arant at Barber Motorsports Park, among others.
Homestead-Miami Speedway saw a 75 percent increase in attendance and corporate sales were up 300 percent, while Barber Motorsports Park had its largest Rolex Series crowd to date in 2006. Strong crowds for the Crown Royal Grand American Challenge of Long Beach, the Mexico City 250, the Brumos Porsche 250, the Sonoma 250 and the EMCO Gears Classic at Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course also contributed to the record attendance figures.

Media:

Rolex Series media placements are also at an all-time high. With more than 5,000 unique print placements in 2006, the series saw a 42 percent increase in placements versus the same point a year ago. Placements in consumer magazines are also up, nearly 15 percent better than 2005. In total, media placements reached a total circulation of more than 500 million this year.

When attempting to read between the lines to get simular and comparible data, which is not easy. IMHO ALMS specataors, and TV Veiwship is much higher then Grand AM.

Income and spending habbits of ALMS fans was pubilshed a few months ago. I will get that info.
Still looking for Grand AM income and spending habbits of their specators.

[old man]

I got all the reports from ALMS last year but have not done so yet for this season AU N EGL, I will do that this week but they were very impressive last year, I suppose they would be if we can get hold of them, unlikely to to publish if poor. SRO do not have any such information that I know of and certainly not the LMS series but then what we are saying in this thread is that the two latter organisations simply don't care about spectators anyway and so will not bother getting the same data as ALMS.

I the fact that Greenlight did the FIA TV this year gave us a much better programme with a reasonable time split between GT1 and 2 and some good technical comments, I did wonder with them doing both series if the quality of ALMS would suffer but it did OK I think.

Any sign that Hindhaugh is reading our views yet?? He did the highlights programme on Motors with Greenlight

[JAG]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I understand completely.
I think the "old man" 's last post #68 is a pretty fair summation as a whole and this one part in particular is it in a nut shell!

Now for the Herculian task of getting the people who matter (control the purse strings) to take notice and absorb the information. You all (across the pond) seem to have a pretty good grip of what needs to be done. So why are you not petitioning the powers that be to make the improvements needed? The squeaky wheel gets the oil! A large and continual effort by as many people as you can muster, and some with "the ear" of certain people, would be my first thrust. Become a nuisance, a nice one, but one none the less. Organize, someone(s) needs to focus the effort where it will have the best results. Choose your targets and get the ball rolling to make the changes happen, as soon as possible.

L.P.

Don't let this thread drop, maybe someone will eventually notice.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by old man

I got all the reports from ALMS last year but have not done so yet for this season AU N EGL, I will do that this week but they were very impressive last year, I suppose they would be if we can get hold of them, unlikely to to publish if poor. SRO do not have any such information that I know of and certainly not the LMS series but then what we are saying in this thread is that the two latter organisations simply don't care about spectators anyway and so will not bother getting the same data as ALMS.

I the fact that Greenlight did the FIA TV this year gave us a much better programme with a reasonable time split between GT1 and 2 and some good technical comments, I did wonder with them doing both series if the quality of ALMS would suffer but it did OK I think.

Any sign that Hindhaugh is reading our views yet?? He did the highlights programme on Motors with Greenlight

On the LMS site there is a breakdwon of media coverage in 2006.

http://www.lmes.net/lemansseries2006...ss_release.pdf

http://www.lmes.net/lemansseries2006...ffusion_tv.pdf

E-mail:-

media@lemans-series.com

[old man]

OK, we seem to be agreed that something needs to be done to contact the ACO and their elected promoter and we need to see what "Hindy" has done to extend Radio Le Mans to become "Radio Le Mans Series" and make it available from the website.

As Hammerdown says the Live Video on the LMS website is OK as far as it goes (not very far really!) but a bit uncertain in the connection. I tend to get the live timing that is on offer and switch between to the two so seeing live timing and listening to a proper radio commenatary that we should be able to do would be good. The only redeeming feature about Donington was the live TV and I finished up in a hospitality suite watching that.

DSC carried the story a lttle while back that the LMS TV and the 24 hours TV were to be part of a TV package, can that nice Mr Goodwin or MC tell us who to contact in this respect so that we can pass the contents of this thread on to "the powers that be". If my post #68 summs it up send them that and point out how many hits we have had in a short time.

What next folks? What about SRO?

[AU N EGL]

NASCARs TV ratings dropped 10% in 2006. several of the races were below the 5/12 share in major markets. However, NASCAR is still the most popular TV sport event in the US.

Despite the drop in ratings, NASCAR remains the second-most viewed television sport in America.

Source:http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/feat...son/index.html


The Future of NASCAR
http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/head...car/index.html

France hopes a tweak in the Chase for the Nextel Cup, giving more points to winners, and the arrival of former Formula One driver Juan Montoya also will spike new interest.

He's also excited about the introduction of the controversial Car of Tomorrow that will be introduced into 16 races next season.

France said cutting the length of races, a complaint by several drivers, isn't an option being explored.

"We're not looking at that right now,'' he said. "By and large, there are complications with that with TV partners and everything else. Race fans like a longer race, believe it or not.

[AU N EGL]

NASCARs $$ distrabution for 2006
http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/head...day/index.html

Top Eleven
Driver Winnings Awards Point Fund Total
J. Johnson $8,909,143 $75,000 $6,785,982 $15,770,125
M. Kenseth $6,608,919 $75,000 $2,841,047 $9,524,966
D. Hamlin $4,389,222 $50,000 $2,168,710 $6,607,932
K. Harvick $6,201,578 $100,000 $1,929,828 $8,231,406
Earnhardt 5,466,104 $1,645,635 -- $7,111,739
J. Gordon $5,975,873 $1,495,574 -- $7,471,447
J. Burton $5,008,882 $1,356,113 -- $6,364,995
K. Kahne $6,204,222 $201,000 $1,316,156 $7,721,378
M. Martin $4,282,548 $1,286,200 -- $5,568,748
K. Busch $4,821,093 $1,256,244 -- $5,537,337
T. Stewart $7,285,281 $310,000 $1,143,888 $8,739,169

[hindy]

Hello - all

First - thanks to Richard Sudgden for bringing this great thread to my attention. I have just read right through it - very constructive and well considered...

So apologies for not being in sooner - I've was in Wales all last week for the WRGB.

Which is a perfect illustration of what is being discussed here - so rest assured it's not just sportscars that has there problems.

For the Rally we set up studios in Rally HQ Millennium stadium and at the Swansea Service Park, had reporters at every styage start or finish and broadcast to the whole of the Rally route with FM transmitters at Cardiff, Swansea and on the stages themselves. In addition the coverage was made available - free by the way - via Sky Ch 0157 and the Internet.

Our news team produced Local and International news bulletins every hour and a rally desk every 20 minutes. In addition we had a Welsh Language update every hour plus Welsh and English highlights packages every day.

Our team - incuding technical support was 15 people - all of whom had to be fed, watered and hotelled at the event.

As you can imagine for spectators keeping up with 111 starters, 3 Major classes plus the final round of the British Championship (another 6 or so classes) running together over three days - would be impossible without a Radio Station, particularly as there is ZERO coverage on BBC national sports radio...

However it may shock you to know that we still have to raise the budget on our own.... NONE of the manufactures, their sponsors or the BRC teams pitched in.

Contrast that with when we put in the service for Crufts at the NEC (no laughing!) - similar numbers of people, 5 days of programming ... The Kennel Club underwrite the whole project and we have a revenue share on the advertising income the station attracts... Don't ask me why but outside of motorsport we never have any problems in getting organisers to understand the value of using Radio to inform those at the event and extent the reach of the event beyond the venue. Tennis, Equestrian, Golf you name it we have done it - and done it as a service to the Organisers who have invested funds...

As a number of poeple have noted I have tried several times to get the LMS to sanction and support a worldwide English - langauge radio service from their events. Although they accept the validity of the concept they will not commit funds.

To be honest I am simply not in the position to have another project (like Radio Le Mans where we pay for the rights and the operationg costs) where I am responsible for all the financing. Unfortunately the LMS (and FIA GT) does not occupy a strong enough position in commercial terms to give me a realsitic chnce of raising even enough money for us to send a reporter to the events let alone a commentator, pit reporter and tech support in order to do the sort of job we do at ALMS.

Ask the teams if either of these series are a real business model for attracting sponors - they will tell you the same... No profile!

With Audi and Peugeot coming into the series that may change, but I do believe that it's unfair to them, and to private investors like Johnathon France, for Series Organisers to abdecate responsibilty for promotion and marketing of the series to them.

Sadly the voice of the spectator is tiny in this context - remember that we have had the farce of an FIA GT event held at Paul Ricard, where there is NO general admission for specators at all!

The bulk of series exists (and profit) on the entry fees of the teams, and there is no shortage of them for LMS and FIA GT, spectators are unecessary to their business model and in some cases will actually add costs - especially if they aren't on a cut of the gate take.

OK I need to get off the hobby horse now - but I will make an couple of points in closing;

1- I'm happy to talk to anyone, no really anyone, who has the real will to support high quality Radio Broadcasts from any event or series - it's not expensive and good radio is a fraction of the cost of bad TV. Thanks to Satellite Radio broadcasts and the Internet audience figures for our shows are comparable or better than the Live TV numbers on Bravo 2 or Motors TV.

As we showed at Petit Le Mans this year - you can combine TV and Radio commentary without having to compromise (too much) on production standards or editorial integrity for either medium.

2 - ALMS underwrite 100% of the service for their events - remember to say thanks for that - let them and their sponsors know your support the ALMS Radio, however you listen.

3 - It's not me that's voicing the FIA GT highlights for Greenlight - that's Richard Nichol (who does the live shows with Graham Tyler)

4 - Anyone who want's to get in touch info@radiolemans.com


Regards

John H

[Bentley03]

I'm kind of on the fence with this thread (and I'm being LMS specific with this post).

I have the same desire to see the necessary information made available at the circuits in order to easily follow the races trackside as those who have expressed such an opinion on this thread. But, as a 'diehard' fan, I have enough interest in the race to keep abreast of what's going on just by watching and listening to the circuit race radio broadcast, without any further enhancements to what we have now.

I agree with Martyn, ticket prices are set at a level which equate to the facilities currently offered at the circuits. The only way I can see 'Information Posts' with leaderboards and timing screens being made available is if the ACO or the circuit promoters themselves seek sponsorship for such technology to be made available trackside. I don't particularly want to see ticket prices rise. Add the associated costs of travel and refreshments to that of the ticket and the 'real' cost rises significantly.

I honestly believe that we are arguing the case for those who have little knowledge (or even interest) of endurance racing. People who are unlikely to read or participate on forums such as this, and who are more likely to find themselves at a race thanks to corporate hospitality, an association with someone involved in the event, or who just happen to live locally and decide to give it a go. A ticket price hike would probably put the majority of locals off however.

Neither the ACO nor the circuit promoters are prepared to take the financial risk involved in enhancing facilities trackside. So any improvements to the current situation must surely be made through sponsors (if they can be found!).

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by hindy

Ask the teams if either of these series are a real business model for attracting sponors - they will tell you the same... No profile!

With Audi and Peugeot coming into the series that may change, but I do believe that it's unfair to them, and to private investors like Johnathon France, for Series Organisers to abdecate responsibilty for promotion and marketing of the series to them.

Sadly the voice of the spectator is tiny in this context - remember that we have had the farce of an FIA GT event held at Paul Ricard, where there is NO general admission for specators at all!

The bulk of series exists (and profit) on the entry fees of the teams, and there is no shortage of them for LMS and FIA GT, spectators are unecessary to their business model and in some cases will actually add costs - especially if they aren't on a cut of the gate take.

Regards

John H

John

Thank you for your strong input. I quoted four of your paragraphs above which I think Highlight the difficult issues.

1. There is not the spectator profile for team sponsors. Sponsors need to see spectators buy their products first before the sponsor will commit additional funds.

2. Audi and Puegots participation MAY help spectators numbers.

3. Gate entering spectators are a very very small almost if not insignificant concern. I wonder if spectators here on the forum should get or put together some form of letter that each of us could send to team sponsors and mention how much we enjoy watching their team. The more individuals spectators ( Punters - I like that term) cans send to Teams sponsors the more Team sponsors may recognise the spectators value.

4. Very few race tracks split gate reciets. The gate recipts are part of what the circuit makes in additoinal income.

[Mal]

Surely LeMans and ALMS prove that the spectator profile exists - it is a question of galvanising them

You just need to look at the marketing information that shows the profile of ALMS fans and realise that European fans have a similar potential - good spending power and a dream market for many sponsors.

I for one have been influenced in my choice of car by Sportscar racing - my last two main cars - both are from Manufacturers who compete in sportscar racing

Unfortuantely and largely because of poor facilities the UK motorsport fans that attend races appear to be die hard race fans.

Given a proper 'event' then the crowds would appear - look at Goodwood they have created two of the biggest sporting events in the country from nothing in a few years - it just takes a little imagination and wise investment.

There is no reason why, with the right investment and person at the helm LMS races could turn into a mini Le Mans in each of the countries taking part

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Mal

Surely LeMans and ALMS prove that the spectator profile exists - it is a question of galvanising them

You just need to look at the marketing information that shows the profile of ALMS fans and realise that European fans have a similar potential - good spending power and a dream market for many sponsors.

ALMS does. I posted it here a month or two ago. I just have not found it again.

There was something else I saw but need to find AGAIN, was that when ALMS was at Road Atlanta ( Atlanta GA ) a very large Europeain spectator contigant came to the event.

[old man]

So, at last someone got Hindy to comment and we can see the real problem is just as we thought early on in this thread, the organisers get their money from the entrants and so can ignore the spectators. I really don't believe the teams can put that out, they would never get any sponsorship and whilst corporate days are good for those invited they must surely want some punters through the gate, anybody know what the reaction to Paul Ricard was from the teams?

The fact remains that more people means more interest all round and what is happenimg at the moment is that the hundreds of thousands of fans that actually go to LM 24 are not being tempted back to what Mal describes as a mini Le Mans on their doorstep, this is a shame, indeed it is shamefull that the ACO are OK and don't really care about the series that bears their name, a real "I'm all right Jack attitude"

Of Course Mr Bentley we are arguing the case for those who have little knowledge, new blood is required in spectator enclosures so that those of us who are already enthused by the sport can continue to have something to watch and be involved in. I have been around this game since the fifties and seen many changes but the rises and falls of sportscar racing are one of the strange stories. Most sports car or hot hatch owners are interested but it is not easy to keep track from the enclosures and I doubt even you know who is leading every class at all times and who is catching, or falling down the order unless the radio tells you and they have the timing screen.

All we want is some more information for the spectator to raise their interest and attract new teams to make the racing better but it seems from what Hindy says we will not get it unless the entrants pay for it.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

ALMS does. I posted it here a month or two ago. I just have not found it again.

There was something else I saw but need to find AGAIN, was that when ALMS was at Road Atlanta ( Atlanta GA ) a very large Europeain spectator contigant came to the event.

I know ALMS does and what I am saying is that LMS needs to do the same.

Surely it needs the teams to stand up and say 'hang on we want spectators too'

The trouble is none of them want to rock the boat as it may threaten the all important Le Mans entry.

[AU N EGL]

I would not be supprised that the Majority of Primary Sponosors we see on the sides of cars are indeed OWNED by the Team Prinicple.

The Business Owner becomes the Sponsor of His Own team, ( racing is his hobby ) and can use that sponsorship as a Tax deduction for advertising of his business.

Many of the ALMS and Grand Am sponsors are indead Owned by the team principle.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I would not be supprised that the Majority of Primary Sponosors we see on the sides of cars are indeed OWNED by the Team Prinicple.

The Business Owner becomes the Sponsor of His Own team, ( racing is his hobby ) and can use that sponsorship as a Tax deduction for advertising of his business.

Many of the ALMS and Grand Am sponsors are indead Owned by the team principle.

I can't comment on Grand Am, but in ALMS, it is not true that "many" of the sponsors that are on the cars are "indeed owned by the team principal."

In LMP1, only Dyson Racing (Thetford and Norcold are amongst some dozen or so companies in the Dyson's holdings.) Autocon may included Chris McMurry's company as a minor sponsor.

In LMP2 only Van der Steur Racing has such a sponsorship. It has be at least two years since Intersport had sponsorship (Banana Joes) from the team principals. None of the Acura teams have any visible sponsorship from a holding of the team principal(s), nor does Mazda.

In GT1, the last team with sponsorship on the car related to the principal was Tom Weikardt's Carsport America.

In GT2 Petersen Motorsports-White Lightning Racing is prominently sponsored by Petersen companies. Risi's team name is that of the principal, but the actual sponsors appearing (Forza2, for instance) are not Guisseppi's dealership or any other Risi holding. Flying Lizard Motorsport has some funding that is derived from the interests of principals, but it is certainly not visible "on the sides of the cars."

So that's three, four if you count the minor sponsorship of Autocon. Of course, there is funding that does not appear as a "sponsorship" per se, but "what you see" is not generally owned by team principals.

[canam]

Patrick Peter and the ACO have a very good idea of what is needed but...they do not see it as their role to invest money in promotion--given the very slim returns. In reality, it makes better sense to negotiate a transport deal for 'flyaway' races than to invest the wedge in marketing.

I believe it is not just promotion. Trying to find any column space in newspapers, magazines etc is nearly impossible. F1 completely dominates to such a degree that there is, literally, no space in the sports sections. Journalists cannot convince the 'powers that be' to run copy on sportscars or, even Le Mans (even if the journo is very sypathetic to sportscars). Autosport, as we know, has virtually no interest in giving sportscars much coverage. They claim that circulation goes down if F1 is not on the cover. I patently do not believe them. Perhaps their paying advertisers (all largely non-F1) should drop advertising in that 'comic' unless greater coverage is given (for their customers) in the sports, touring and Gt car areas. ...or do Haymarket (owners of the Autosport) have other arrangements with the F1 circus.

If the national newspapers do not give Le Mans racing any visibility, these other 'fan friendly' ideas at the track will not succeed.

This is where the manufacturers' involvement is key. They have marketing departments that will demand coverage.

Just over 15 years ago, sportscar racing was deemed to be a huge threat to F1 and Bernie and his pals decimated it. He wanted the manufacturers for himself. Now that many are already there, there are some others who see involvement in F1 an utter waste of money. Hopefully, the LM series (all of them) will pull in more big players.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by TWK

I

So that's three, four if you count the minor sponsorship of Autocon. Of course, there is funding that does not appear as a "sponsorship" per se, but "what you see" is not generally owned by team principals.

ALMS is differnt and the way sponsorship / partnership should work.

I guess I should have been clearer, meaning the LMS and FIA GT races and of course Grand AM.

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Stop all these silly LMP formula and re-introduce the pre-91 Group C regs I say

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

Stop all these silly LMP formula and re-introduce the pre-91 Group C regs I say

Now your talking .

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

Stop all these silly LMP formula and re-introduce the pre-91 Group C regs I say

And what pray tell does that have to do with building of a modern fan base. That is demanding enough to change the way that the established bodies, that oversee the sport today, present it for the general public. Therefore improving, the quality of product,fan retention and growth all at the same time??

L.P.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by canam

If the national newspapers do not give Le Mans racing any visibility, these other 'fan friendly' ideas at the track will not succeed.

.

How can that be true if as you say Le Mans gets no coverage, how then does it manage over 200,000 spectators.

If the event is right then the fans will come it may take a little time, but word gets out - look at Goodwood - it needs to be more family friendly - I attended the civil sevice event at Brands Hatch two years ago and there were over 100,000 people.

[renkadima]

Originally Posted by Mal

How can that be true if as you say Le Mans gets no coverage, how then does it manage over 200,000 spectators.

If the event is right then the fans will come it may take a little time, but word gets out - look at Goodwood - it needs to be more family friendly - I attended the civil sevice event at Brands Hatch two years ago and there were over 100,000 people.

Le Mans gets its crowd because it's been around for a century and is an institution and also because it has a unique atmosphere. It manages to get 50,000 British visitors each year largely through word of mouth, but the majority go for the beer and not the race, sadly.

It's getting harder and harder to get that 200,000 coming each year, though. The French still make up the majority of the crowd, but contrivances like Monsieur Loeb racing for Pescarolo are required nowadays to keep the interest.

Goodwood has been a spectacular success, it is true, but it isn't racing; it's a fun day out with lots of sexy cars and drivers.

If the Britcar 24 was the only 'GT' race of its kind in the UK, it would be a lot easier to get the crowds to that.

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by hindy

So apologies for not being in sooner - I've was in Wales all last week for the WRGB.

Which is a perfect illustration of what is being discussed here - so rest assured it's not just sportscars that has there problems.

For the Rally we set up studios in Rally HQ Millennium stadium and at the Swansea Service Park, had reporters at every styage start or finish and broadcast to the whole of the Rally route with FM transmitters at Cardiff, Swansea and on the stages themselves. In addition the coverage was made available - free by the way - via Sky Ch 0157 and the Internet.

Our news team produced Local and International news bulletins every hour and a rally desk every 20 minutes. In addition we had a Welsh Language update every hour plus Welsh and English highlights packages every day.

Our team - incuding technical support was 15 people - all of whom had to be fed, watered and hotelled at the event.

As you can imagine for spectators keeping up with 111 starters, 3 Major classes plus the final round of the British Championship (another 6 or so classes) running together over three days - would be impossible without a Radio Station, particularly as there is ZERO coverage on BBC national sports radio...

I was listening to both RallyFM over the weekend on the net as it was the only way to keep up with the of the rally and it was coverage fantastic, exacatly was I expected from Hindy and the team, so well done to all envolved. I know there is a radio station on the WRC site but from the bits I have heard in the passed they only seem to cover the top 15 or so (very much like the TV coverage, which if you where to watch it you would have only throught there was 10 cars in the event rather than the 111 that started), where as RallyFM where as Hindy said covering the whole event.

Now this brings back to the sportscars, I don't have access to Motors TV which mean's I can't watch either the LMS or the ALMS. However if I am at home and there is an ALMS round then I will listen in on the net and of there was a radio station covering the LMS I would do the same.