FIA GT Race FIA GT Rnd 5: Oschersleben 7-8 Jul 2007 - Page 4

Tim the Grey · 11 Jul 2007, 09:38 (Ref:1960485)

From the FIAGT site:
After a good race, when the nr 7 All-Inkl.com Lamborghini Murciélago crossed the line in third place, the technical scrutineers found a fault with the car’s gearbox. The Stewards found a difference between the gearwheels used and the exact specification of gearwheels on the homologation paper. Indeed the ratio of each single gear and even the complete ratio of the gearbox were exactly the same, but the gearwheels themselves had different specifications to those specified on the sheet. Based on these facts, the #7 car was excluded from the race result so Christophe Bouchut / Stefan Muecke and Team ALL-INKL.COM scored no points.

„We have only used this kind of gearwheel in the last three years, but made a mistake when typing them on the homologation sheet. This has been obligatory since the beginning of the year. The mistake is definitely that of Reiter Engineering, so we had to apologise to Team ALL-INKL.COM and the drivers Christophe Bouchut and Stefan Muecke”, explained Hans Reiter about the situation.

Bugger. Looks like they've accepted they were in the wrong. Just when things were getting interesting.

mirkob · 11 Jul 2007, 10:29 (Ref:1960528)

Race highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVS6Jnkr8QM

minimangler · 11 Jul 2007, 11:35 (Ref:1960595)

The PK car lasted over an hour before pitting.- that means a BIG fuel tank, it did make a difference.

As for Reiter, that is just silly. Common sense should definitely prevail imo.
And PK were a little...silly to allow such a silly mistake as well.

cmk · 11 Jul 2007, 18:57 (Ref:1960924)

PK claim that they have been using the same tank since they got the car, and that it came from P&M. If that is true, than something truly strange is afoot (like shoddy FIA scrutineering - oh wait, that's not strange at all!) but at the very least, your suggestion that they benefited from it is suspect. I don't believe they did, running a car to the 1 hour mark or a little beyond is not by any means inconceivable with a legal tank.

The Lambo situation is very silly. It was a stupid mistake from Reiter and that is that, in a sense. However, it once again shows how demented the FIA scrutineering practice is. I'm trying to imagine a car getting busted at an ACO race for this sort of problem, and having a hard time doing so. However, there is no real reason for the FIA to forgive Reiter/All-Inkl for their error.

eddsc · 11 Jul 2007, 20:32 (Ref:1961003)

Replying to an earlier post, Mucke hit Deletraz and broke his rear suspension, while Bouchut hit Montanari and broke his. Perhaps they deserved to be excluded from the results.

Fogelhund · 11 Jul 2007, 21:21 (Ref:1961046)

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddsc

Replying to an earlier post, Mucke hit Deletraz and broke his rear suspension, while Bouchut hit Montanari and broke his. Perhaps they deserved to be excluded from the results.

I think Mucke should be overlooked for now. He has a record of driving clean until now.

HORNDAWG · 11 Jul 2007, 21:25 (Ref:1961052)

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddsc

Replying to an earlier post, Mucke hit Deletraz and broke his rear suspension, while Bouchut hit Montanari and broke his. Perhaps they deserved to be excluded from the results.

Perhaps they do.

L.P.

minimangler · 11 Jul 2007, 21:35 (Ref:1961062)

Perhaps it was racing incidents?
Come on, two deliberate incidents from the same car?
Yeah, right.
rear suspension suggests a closing of the door.
And I'm fairly sure I'd be correct in saying it wouldn't be position but for lapping?

Graham Goodwin · 11 Jul 2007, 21:44 (Ref:1961076)

It doesn't have to be deliberate - merely avoidable

minimangler · 11 Jul 2007, 21:48 (Ref:1961080)

I don't believe this to be honest, if a driver turns in on another (how else do you break rear suspension) then it is the driver who turns in's fault, in this case at least because he is likely being lapped.

Graham Goodwin · 11 Jul 2007, 21:50 (Ref:1961086)

You don't believe what?

eddsc · 11 Jul 2007, 22:22 (Ref:1961113)

So the nose of one car is level with the rear wheel of the other and the driver of the car ahead is supposed to make room? He is supposed to know that the car behind's driver has decided that he's coming through anyway??

HORNDAWG · 11 Jul 2007, 22:22 (Ref:1961114)

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimangler

Perhaps it was racing incidents?
Come on, two deliberate incidents from the same car?
Yeah, right.
rear suspension suggests a closing of the door.
And I'm fairly sure I'd be correct in saying it wouldn't be position but for lapping?

It was in a passing situation for position as they were on different pit strategies it would have put Carsport down a lap. To imply that the Lambo is so much more than the #5 Vette when the proof of thier competitiveness is borne out by the results of the races so far is ludicrous! It is the responsibility of the overtaking car to complete the pass without driving through the car in front!

L.P.

PorscheFanNo1 · 11 Jul 2007, 22:33 (Ref:1961123)

Few pictures of the incident(s) can be found here. Be aware of slow and heavy loading tho.

cmk · 12 Jul 2007, 05:40 (Ref:1961238)

I don't see what the huge issue is here. Mucke and Bouchut probably were a little too aggressive at this last race. Bouchut isn't usually this bellicose, whereas Mucke has been accused of similar action before this year. It's just something which is more accepted in other series than in sportscar racing.

minimangler, I do not really get your point of view. Whether a car is being lapped or not (and on mixed strategies, many fights like that that are for position effectively) it beehoves the driver making the pass (Lambo) to not get his nose in and clip the back of the other car like that. Get cleanly alongside and pass is best for all involved. Lots of drivers do it and we don't hate them all for it (Gounon is still a popular character), so they don't need silly defending. They both just have to exhibit more patience and caution or better judgement in the future.

EDIT: PorscheFanNo1, maybe I just missed them, but the only photos I saw there of Lambo incidents were of an overoptimistic move on #8 by the BMS junior car.

PorscheFanNo1 · 13 Jul 2007, 15:02 (Ref:1962521)

cmk: I guess you're right, sorry then.

minimangler · 15 Jul 2007, 14:56 (Ref:1963638)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

To imply that the Lambo is so much more than the #5 Vette when the proof of thier competitiveness is borne out by the results of the races so far is ludicrous!
L.P.

Lambo wins 1 : 0 Corvette wins.

What results?

HORNDAWG · 15 Jul 2007, 16:46 (Ref:1963717)

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimangler

Lambo wins 1 : 0 Corvette wins.

What results?

Amazingly after being taken out by the #7 Lambo, Deletraz/ Hezemans in the #5 Vette are still tied with Bouchet/Mucke in the drivers championship. So if they didn't have results how could this be? Ya, Mucke is so good he even tried taking out the team car at Bucharest!

L.P.

The Badger · 15 Jul 2007, 17:29 (Ref:1963739)

Like that hasnt been done before !!!

I happen to think that Mücke is a refreshing tallent to see on the driver front , and not a slow joe either .

We can all make mistakes , and many of them too , or not ?

cmk · 16 Jul 2007, 02:33 (Ref:1964032)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Like that hasnt been done before !!!

I happen to think that Mücke is a refreshing tallent to see on the driver front , and not a slow joe either .

We can all make mistakes , and many of them too , or not ?

As I said, Mucke is brutally fast and overly brash and physical on the track at present, with not a lot of patience or mutualism - hence my comparison to J-M Gounon. I do feel such drivers can be very popular, but will never obtain the universal adoration of, say, a McNish.

minimangler · 16 Jul 2007, 09:32 (Ref:1964221)

I think that Mr Corvette (yes, you, horndawg) is missing the point here- the lambo would have extended ahead were it not for a ridiculous technicality. Wherever there is a discussion even vaguely involving Corvette, you're in like a flash to defend USA's finest. Well, I'm sorry, but this year Lambo have been pretty damn close on a fraction of the development budget, while being far more spectacular in the process. If Mucke has been a little bit crazy, then fine, but we all do make mistakes. Are we saying that no driver of any other car has made any similar moves this season? Or any season?

HORNDAWG · 16 Jul 2007, 15:43 (Ref:1964524)

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimangler

I think that Mr Corvette (yes, you, horndawg) is missing the point here- the lambo would have extended ahead were it not for a ridiculous technicality. Wherever there is a discussion even vaguely involving Corvette, you're in like a flash to defend USA's finest. Well, I'm sorry, but this year Lambo have been pretty damn close on a fraction of the development budget, while being far more spectacular in the process. If Mucke has been a little bit crazy, then fine, but we all do make mistakes. Are we saying that no driver of any other car has made any similar moves this season? Or any season?

Am I a Corvette fan? Damb right skippy!! And not only do I honestly state it but I advertise it with my avatar! The point here is Mucke took out another car in order to get around, plain and simple! If I am so anti- everything and so pro-Vette, why have I not stated anything about the PK fuel tank situation? So Lambo Boy who is putting forth their opinion in a way in which to gloss over their faves sloppy driving!! Also had not Mucke taken out the #5 Vette their relative finishing positions is an unknown.
Also your assertion that because of being penalized for a "ridiculous technicality" they lose their chance to move ahead of the drivers they took out is more gloss. Sorry the rules that incurred the "ridiculous technicality" penalty have been established for quite some time and the penalty for infraction is a known, hence the statement from Hans Reiter!

L.P.

Bernard Bram · 16 Jul 2007, 16:31 (Ref:1964552)

Deletraz blocked Mücke for three laps ignoring blue flags. So i guess it's Deletraz own fault for being given the nudge.

cmk · 17 Jul 2007, 04:48 (Ref:1965336)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Bram

Deletraz blocked Mücke for three laps ignoring blue flags. So i guess it's Deletraz own fault for being given the nudge.

This has shades of the issue surrounding the Audi-Pescarolo contretemps at Estoril in 2001. When battles for overall position that appear to be simple lapping maneuvers take place, should they be treated as the former or the latter? I confess I don't have an answer that satisfies me.

minimangler · 17 Jul 2007, 13:14 (Ref:1965700)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Bram

Deletraz blocked Mücke for three laps ignoring blue flags. So i guess it's Deletraz own fault for being given the nudge.

I really REALLY want to go aaaaaaaah in your FACE!

But I shall resist. Now, who's being a cheat?

J.Y.

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