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Old 27 Jan 2012, 11:25 (Ref:3017723)   #76
Stephen Green
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OK everyone this has gone far enough, either stop now or there will be a few infractions handed out.
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Old 28 Jan 2012, 11:46 (Ref:3018133)   #77
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Thank you George, that's a calm and well-reasoned piece. Had you thought of sending a copy directly to Ben Anderson?
I did but did not receive even an acknowledgement in reply. You might be surprised how hard it is to get the two main motor racing "comics" (Autosport and MSN) to print anything to do with marshalling issues.
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Old 29 Jan 2012, 21:02 (Ref:3018624)   #78
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Les Green should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
To bring it back to the original point. Are the clubs planning on running meets with no lunch break for the marshalls? Or is this all just "Chinese Whispers" ?

If so why havent they informed the Marshalls Clubs i.e BMMC etc. so they can give some thought as to how they can manage this situation.

Having worked in a 24/7 job all we have to do is manage the situation by organising reliefs during the lunch period, or staggered lunch breaks when people are stood-down even if for just 15/20mins . If we havent got enough numbers to do this then are there enough marshalls for the meeting to go ahead in view of the new programming?

To be honest I dont think most are bothered about having a lunchbreak but more of a comfort break to be given enough time to use the "near-by" toilet facilities.
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Old 29 Jan 2012, 21:04 (Ref:3018628)   #79
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Les Green should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
P.S. theres always going to be the exception when the "wheel comes off" and its all hands on deck , which I am sure nobody would object to.
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Old 29 Jan 2012, 21:23 (Ref:3018642)   #80
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Quite right. I never complain if a meeting runs over or we lose our lunch because something unavoidable occurred, only it it's either planned that way or the many occasions when you look at the timetable and know it's really not going to happen - and assume the person that put it together knew that as well...
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Old 29 Jan 2012, 22:45 (Ref:3018672)   #81
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Les, in answer to your question, I think we need to wait and see what the timetables are like before we start jumping up and down. Once that is known the BMMC and others can make their voices heard, only then can we see what the outcome is.
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Old 30 Jan 2012, 00:00 (Ref:3018696)   #82
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Now if only timetables were available when we came to volunteer we could solve the issue of 'You knew what you were signing up for when you volunteered' which is usually answered by '...err, actually we didn't'.

Voting with feet (in both positive and negative ways) as a result of informed choice. I'd vote for that option. Any clubs/venues want to be brave enough?
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Old 30 Jan 2012, 12:13 (Ref:3018876)   #83
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deley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddeley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Now if only timetables were available when we came to volunteer we could solve the issue of 'You knew what you were signing up for when you volunteered' which is usually answered by '...err, actually we didn't'.

Voting with feet (in both positive and negative ways) as a result of informed choice. I'd vote for that option. Any clubs/venues want to be brave enough?
Timetables may not be available when you volunteer at the start of a year however they are often available in the run up to an event, in which case it is then possible to see how the time is planned and if you wanted to you could contact the club/CM and withdraw your volunteering if you felt it necessary.

Personally, I make it a habit (whenever possible) to try and find the latest timetable in advance along with any other useful info like finals/SRs etc which are also often published so I have them for reference and can see if there are any "oddities" in the way the meeting is planned to run.

just a thought

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Old 30 Jan 2012, 13:02 (Ref:3018894)   #84
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Because I have other hobbies and a wife to consider(!) I try to fix my volunteering at the start of the year so we both know what I'm doing and where. Chopping and changing is a nuisance (and annoys chief marshals to whose comments, in my experience, many clubs pay little attention) and often by the time you can see a final timetable and entry list it's already too late to go elsewhere. If the eventual timetable is in my opinion unreasonable or appears of particularly poor quality I have been known to withdraw, but I don't like doing it. More likely I'll try to store up the information and use it to guide me next year.

Interestingly, if you do withdraw because of the poor quality of the meeting I find it's best not to mention it on here. Have done a couple of times and got flamed for it in case I was 'putting others off'...
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Old 30 Jan 2012, 13:55 (Ref:3018920)   #85
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Interestingly, if you do withdraw because of the poor quality of the meeting I find it's best not to mention it on here. Have done a couple of times and got flamed for it in case I was 'putting others off'...
yeh ive done the same, last year i was very vocal about BRSCC midlands/britcar due to their ridiculous timetables etc.......so i withdrew my volenteering for that meeting and for the rest of the year for brscc midland events.....and yes i got flamed for making a scene of it on the forum, and putting off others, but i couldnt give a damn to be honest!!!!....if it makes the organisers feel a bit tetchy and sit up and look then at least its doing something, rather than just lying down and accepting that the timetables are rubbish and we just have to accept it.

the general consensus is to either shut up and put up or withdraw your services for the day and then the club may realise theyve messed up......i wonder how late they will leave it until that point though? when we get to line of sight marshalling, cancelling meetings or until a driver gets killed because there arent enough of us!

anyway rant over.....all i can say is i cant wait to start marshalling at oulton this year, at least there the clubs always run a tight ship, great team, great track..should be a great year!...WOOP
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Old 30 Jan 2012, 22:15 (Ref:3019133)   #86
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marshalling at oulton this year, at least there the clubs always run a tight ship
Curfews are a wonderful way to concentrate the mind, aren't they?
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Old 10 Feb 2012, 11:25 (Ref:3024051)   #87
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The_Viper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I admit it - I enjoy a lunch break!! But only about 30 minutes, enough to go to the loo, get a coffee and maybe some hot lunch.
But I can do this by just standing down from post, with the agreement of the Post Chief of course.

The up side of having my "lunch break" when racing is still on is that the loo's are empty, the coffee/food outlets don't have queues (which they do during proper lunch breaks) so I'm served quicker and can eat at a sedate pace instead of throwing it down my neck and I feel refreshed and more alert.

Also, on the "odd" day when the weather isn't great, a brisk walk gets the circulation going to warm me up and get the cold muscles working again; or if it's hot (you remember hot - doesn't happen often!) it gives me a chance to find somewhere cooler, re-stock my water supplies and have an ice-cream. (Ever noticed how if you have an ice-cream while on post - that's when you get an incident?! )

None of us like to "miss out" but provided adequate manning levels are maintained, then at morning briefing suggest staggered lunch breaks for those who want it, even if it's to start lunch 10 mins before the "official" one to give you a chance to get food/drink/loo etc.

We are volunteers, we don't have to clock on and off and most marshalling teams on post will happily cover whilst members are away. But remember to let the Post Chief know you are leaving post!!
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Old 10 Feb 2012, 14:37 (Ref:3024124)   #88
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We are volunteers, we don't have to clock on and off !!
Only insomuch as we don't get paid for our services!
We need to be careful with that kind of approach - can you imagine the volunteers at the Olympics or the St John Ambulance staff at the V Festival taking that stance?

I hear what you say, and in part, agree with you.
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Old 10 Feb 2012, 14:44 (Ref:3024127)   #89
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We are volunteers, we don't have to clock on and off !!
That does not mean they have to treat us like something the dog brought in!
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Old 10 Feb 2012, 18:48 (Ref:3024205)   #90
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The only club I am aware of that is planning "no lunchbreak" meetings is Castle Coombe. Adrian Fawdington has a fantastic set of races planned for this year and wants to get as many in to the day as possible. He has therefore planned some days (not all) as continuous events.

Before anyone starts jumping up and down, I had the reaction you would expect and it was not agreement with his plans!

Adrian assures me that he is going to make sure the posts are manned so that each person can be relieved (probably literally) and take the equivalent of a lunch break. And I have to say he has always kept his word so far, so please give them a chance.
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Old 10 Feb 2012, 18:59 (Ref:3024207)   #91
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That does not mean they have to treat us like something the dog brought in!
Could an argument be put forward that as we are unpaid volunteers we are subsidising the costs of motor racing.
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Old 10 Feb 2012, 19:43 (Ref:3024228)   #92
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The only club I am aware of that is planning "no lunchbreak" meetings is Castle Coombe. Adrian Fawdington has a fantastic set of races planned for this year and wants to get as many in to the day as possible. He has therefore planned some days (not all) as continuous events.

Before anyone starts jumping up and down, I had the reaction you would expect and it was not agreement with his plans!

Adrian assures me that he is going to make sure the posts are manned so that each person can be relieved (probably literally) and take the equivalent of a lunch break. And I have to say he has always kept his word so far, so please give them a chance.
Does he know how many marshals are going to volunteer?
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Old 10 Feb 2012, 20:37 (Ref:3024258)   #93
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Combe have had meetings before with no lunch breaks, and I'm not aware of there being any issues. Adrian mentioned at the end of last year (I think it was at the last meeting) that the 2012 timetable would be very busy, and the days would be full. Combe usually has lots of marshals attending, (visiting clubs are always surprised at how many there are when they've asked how many doughnuts they need to provide, for example), and there are usually enough people on post to allow for breaks at different times. So I really can't see that there'll be any issues....
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Old 10 Feb 2012, 23:01 (Ref:3024344)   #94
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To be fair to Combe, they've got a good record for not inviting back series which don't provide adequate entertainment, and with a solid curfew you know what time it's going to finish - and it won't be too late and a limit on the number of days means they're not relying on people turning up week after week after week.

Added to that a reputation for treating the marshals well they can be reasonably confident of getting enough marshals to be able to make this work with sufficient stand down times for everyone. It's a risky plan, but if anyone can run it successfully they can. I'm not sure there's anywhere else that I would trust to pull it off.

I shall be sitting down with the calendars next week, some careful decision making needed, I think.
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Old 11 Feb 2012, 07:28 (Ref:3024449)   #95
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Apple should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fair enough, question answered
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Old 13 Feb 2012, 13:09 (Ref:3025237)   #96
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NICK ALLISON should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No lunch breaks are often a fact of life in the Pits ,with lunchtime demonstration runs , pre gridding , pit road walk abouts , parc ferme and scrutineers back up and all the activities that go in to running a successful meeting.We just deal with and make it fit.
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Old 13 Feb 2012, 20:41 (Ref:3025428)   #97
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Combe have had meetings before with no lunch breaks, and I'm not aware of there being any issues.
Ive marshalled at Combe since the mid 70's,and we used to have one hour lunch breaks....but now were in the entertainment business,spectator's want non stop action.

Apart from a "blip" at Combe last season,Big grids and good size crowds have been the attraction of Castle Combe.



As a P.C./Observer,we can plan ahead for marshals breaks throughout the day.
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Old 15 Feb 2012, 07:58 (Ref:3026029)   #98
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Matt Hunter should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The one big reason I love Combe so much is that the on track action often makes you forget about breaks
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Old 16 Feb 2012, 21:34 (Ref:3026796)   #99
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To be completely fair to Combe at least they are takin a proactive stance towards the problem, they want to run throughout the day and are looking at solutions, I hope other organising clubs take note and see if this approach works this year and follow suit if they also want to run without breaks. Credit where credit is due to Combe!
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Old 13 May 2012, 10:46 (Ref:3073564)   #100
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Grahame West should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not even a comfort break

Few weeks ago was worried to read in Autopsort that one Clerk of the Course down south was planning to run race meetings without any breaks for the marshals. He seemed to think this was acceptable. I do not.

Have been to many race meetings where the planned lunch break goes out the window. Fair enough this happens. Any meeting I've been at where this happens arrangements have been made to feed the marshals on post & allow them at least a comfort break.

Did a meeting recently where this happened but no allowance was made for a comfort break. After 7 hours on post a red flag at least allowed the two of us on post to get to the toilet. Each post only had 2 marshals so you couldn't just be excused to trek to the nearest toilet. With an increasing number of elderly marshals & many more female colleagues who cannot just nip behind a tree. Is just me who thinks this is unacceptable?
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