LMS & Le Mans to be on Eurosport in 2008

[sceptic]

Well it looks like Eurosport will be showing nearly all of the 24 hours - although there are times where you will need to jump between Eurosport and Eurosport 2 every half hour.

But I can find nothing anywhere to suggest that Eurosport is showing the LMS, or that Motors TV is not. I can only think that someone has assumed that because Le Mans 24 hours and Le Mans series both have the words Le Mans in them, that they must come as a package.

...and of course they don't, because the Le Mans Series is run by Ratel and Peter and has nothing at all to do with the ACO.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Motors does the best job we could expect if we want proper coverage. Eurosport cannot deliver that.

If it was proper coverage I wouldn't tune out after 1-2hr's, it's dreadful stuff, it makes the sport look boring and amateurish.

It's a glorified webstream, not coverage worthy of an international series hosting manufactuers will multi million pound racing programs.

Can you imagine the DTM, BTCC, or any half respectable series putting up with this sort of coverage?

[JAG]

.............I realise Motors TV has been limited to the poor international feed, but the commentators have often not been given the tools required to provide in depth coverage, they have to resort to commentating on what is shown on screen, which will never work for an endurance race.

Motors TV need's someone onsite to research news, carry out interviews etc, at the very least link up with a sportscar news service such as DSC or Endurance Info in an official capacity, to provide news and race info.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by prototype

Any chance someone in the States could get either Motors or Eurosport? I don't get to see these races at all.

Ah my fellow American, use GOOGLE.

[dj4monie]

Interesting thread -

Yeah, where is Martin Haven? This not the official "Where's Martin" thread is it?

Having watched Motors TV, I would agree with anybody that says they are a low budget channel. Having said that, they provide good coverage for the budget they have to work with.

Speed is controlled by FOX and as LONG as Fox shows and makes a profit off the 1st half of the NeckCAR season, it will be NASCAR, all the time, every time on Speed and it will interrupt coverage of "lesser" motor racing events.

What I have started to wonder is why aren't all the other series TV and Media all connected? We are fighting the same 800lb Gorilla in NASCAR which is on free TV, now in HD@1080i/720p or basic cable. Extra coverage is on Speed, a paid channel on most systems, like Motors and Men & Motors.

There is plenty of racing out there and many cameras and camera crews and I am sure many people that would like to cover it for you as a full time job.

What we need is a channel devoted to cars and motorsport like we wanna see it and not driven by casual fans of the sport.

If other niches can make money so can this. Speedvision was the right idea, Fox just needed a 24 hour NASCAR channel to do what ESPN did for stick and ball sports, but when that didn't work and fans revolted, they toned down the NASCAR coverage to a barely tolerable level, its still too much noise about people like Kevin Harvick and Jimmy Johnson, watching grass grow is more exciting than listening to them.

Whenever Despain is covering Cup the callers sound like out-takes from a Larry The Cable Guy show.

But I digress -

We need Motorsports coverage MTV style. MTV is world wide; I can see the same 50 Cent video in Prague or Medford, Ore.

We need an internationally connected channel!

I touted pay per view for ALMS and still do, its the only way to get the coverage the way you want it.

If we all are off that same mindset, my goodness at $40US per person, 3-4 million people world wide, I don't see how it couldn't be profitable and still give people the motorsports they want.

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

my goodness at $40US per person, 3-4 million people world wide

I guess that is where it breaks down. Even projecting some growth of the market, I don't think you'd ever reach those numbers. Not at that price point.

We'll only ever see what is affordable.


I'm happy about the Eurosport move. This way I'll see at least some of the racing. I don't get MotorsTV and I don't feel like subscribing to some cable/sat package, because I don't watch TV in general. While I would be willing to pay for MotorsTV, paying the full package price just for one channel is just too much for me. Additionally, it will introduce more people to it that could catch it by chance, will be easier accessible for young people/children, and might very well grow the market in the long run. And with a higher profile, better coverage might come around some day, even if it isn't on Eurosport or at least doesn't get treated like a read-headed step-child anymore.

A MotorsTV webstream subscription would be great. Give me a 1-2 MBit stream, broadcast LMS, ALMS, FIA GT, SuperGT and some VLN (with a download archive for races I miss) and you'll get my 20 bucks per month.

[prototype]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Ah my fellow American, use GOOGLE.

I have googled this. Can't find anything legal or otherwise.

I would welcome a PM with details.

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by Mal

So much will depend on who is doing the production, and how much resource they are putting into it. Whichever channel it is on.

Motors problem has been that they are commentating from a remote studio with only DSC and other weblinks for timing and information. I doubt there is even a tape delay allowing them to see things a couple of seconds before we do. Therefore this makes it virtually impossible to 'commentate' on the race. They therefore have to just chat and react to things after they happen.

What we need is a proper coordinated production with on site commentators who have proper information to hand.

Your last point is the whole deal in one... cash...

That's why Motors TV LMS commentators are not on site and therefore - at very best - one-step removed from the action... compare and contrast Motors' LMS and Le Mans 24 Hours coverage if you doubt the veracity of this...

there is simply not the money to have LMS comms on-site at races...

The coverage on Motors is supplied by a third party, contracted by the LMS organisers and, in TV as most other businesses, you gets what you pays for...

Having said that, might I point out that in a 5-hour race, being on-site is no guarantee of greatness for us commentators... what do you think we look at while we talk?? The live feed everyone else sees...

At Le Mans, we can stand up in the booth and say "well, you can't see this but the RML Lola has just pitted and there's something going on but I can't see what..." as we look out of our window. You are none the wiser, we are none the wiser and no-one gets to see what is puzzling us all...

True, we do have a timing screen TV (not 4 or 5!) and can flick through the pages, so we CAN hunt down class battles - but it all takes time and eyes away from the main screen... which is ALWAYS when something interesting actually happens... and we then look up at the end of it, as you're foaming at the mouth, screaming at us as we babble on about the tussle for 7th in GT2, while Mike Rockenfeller trashes several million Euro-worth of Ingolstadt's finest... we never know if the whole incident has been seen or if the cameras have just this instant picked up the end of it all... That's why even ego-maniacs like me desperately need co-commentators at all times...

Many people imagine that sports TV is like Strictly Come Dancing or Coronation Street - packed with researchers, assistants and staff feeding the "talent" with tons of stuff. In reality, if there are two people in the booth, that's almost the entire crew!

Speed manage to send 4-5 announcers, and 30-plus camera crew on site - Eurosport's equivalent spend would be WTCC - hence the quality level.

It's all about the money, no matter what the sport is and in Europe's chronically-fragmented TV market, what little there is, has to be spread MIGHTY thin.

As is often proved, "Live" does not always mean "good"

Why is the BTCC so popular still? When was the series zenith? - the BBC Grandstand shows of the late 80s/early 90s - jammed full of action, on-board replays, and huge personalities... superbly edited and commentated - a WEEK after the event!

They gave us Harvey, Hoy, Cleland, Soper, Sytner et al every week, battling on and off the track... racing AND people larger than life... What the current mania for live at all costs is simply beats me...

As another post highlighted, the difference between Eurosport's live coverage of Daytona and the tape-delayed highlights was simply night and day... because there was time to sort out what happened, figure out why - and whether or not it was really important - and tell the viewer... the live was a scrambling car-crash that Mark and Carlton were lucky to survive at all! And mostly, that was beyond Eurosport's control!

[Martin Haven]

To return to the original thread for a moment - if everyone has not dozed off... apparently Michael Cotton was not mis-informed... shame on you for thinking such a thing...

I am not sure how official this is but Eurosport... (looks round and leans closer, whispering)... and this is STRICTLY between the two of us... Eurosport IS showing the LMS...

The start and first 30 or so minutes of each race will be live on either E1 or, if necessary E2...

There will be a highlights resume on Sunday night after Motorsport Weekend (duration to be decided but 26 mins max...)

Then, there will be a full 52-minute review every post-race Tuesday night on Eurosport 2 (much like WTCC) - I do not know (but suspect) that it might then get an early-Weds repeat on E1...

So, yes... LMS is live on Motors TV

...and on Eurosport... kind-of...

However, for LMS fans this might be the best of both worlds... LIVE coverage throughout on Motors, PLUS a chance to see it all again in the following week

Now, remember, I very probably shouldn't have told you... but since it's you...

Keep it under your hat...

schtum... you ain't seen me, right??

[Martin Haven]

Oops, almost forgot...

Eurosport's Le mans 24 coverage will total more than 30 hours

There will be live coverage of all qualifying sessions, Warm-up, Histerics and the main event, live throughout...

So there

Pics to be supplied, as ever, by the ACO's appointed host broadcaster - which has not ever been either Eurosport or Motors TV

Noises off supplied by Eurosport bods in the booth, headed by Mark Cole and Carlton Kirby...

David Leslie will be racing in the Group C event but otherwise, hopefully, helping to keep you all informed as well...

I shall be WTCC-ing my little nuts off in Brno!

Aaaaahhhhh... sleep... in the middle weekend in June... Bliss!!

[JAG]

Well I guess that answers everything, the best of both worlds.

Sky+ the Eurosport highlights and keep half an eye on the Motors coverage while surfing online!

Thanks for the info.

[Knowlesy]

*retains air of impenetrable skepticism*

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

I shall be WTCC-ing my little nuts off in Brno!

Aaaaahhhhh... sleep... in the middle weekend in June... Bliss!!

That, Martin, is perhaps the worst news of all, you will be missed!!!!!

Thank you so much for taking the time to put the record straight!

[Martin Haven]

No probs...

no wonder most of us are in the dark - not much of this is known in Eurosport circles... and very little of it is common knowldege, even among those that NEED to know

So, Michael Cotton knows far more about what's going to happen in my life than I do...

[Paddy_NL]

Pfew, thanks a lot for the "non-given" info, Martin!

[Piglet]

Thanks Martin. I am glad that Motors will continue their live LMS coverage. I don't care how cruddy the feed is or how poor the commentary is, I get to see the footage in full and along with whatever live radio feed/timing feed I get from t'internet that gives me a good idea of what is going on, live. I do sometimes record the later highlight shows but, actually, as a fan of endurance racing I don't just want to see the beautifully edited "action" shots, I want to see every driver change and every pit stop that I can.

I'm glad you picked up the point about "at track" commentators, the only real advantage to being at the track (in many places) is, I imagine the ability to pick up hourly timing bulletins!

I wrote some website content from the media centre at LM 24 last year and with current technology that could easily have been written from pretty where anywhere plus our content included comment from folks at home watching Motors coverage and in the US watching Speed!! I'm not sure having commentators at the track is necessarily a huge bonus - unless you can get them into Race Control!!

[SALEEN S7R]

Just to clear things up, given that Eurosport are showing more than 30 hours of live Le Mans 24 hour coverage this year does this mean that Motors TV wont be showing the race live and in full along with scruitneering and qualifying?

[ss_collins]

so not martin not hindy, then who is doing commentary on the LMS??

[Mal]

Thanks for that Martin.

Just for clarity my comments were in no way a critiscm of MotorsTV - it was quite clear to me that the problem lay in the funding, and as said above I would far rather have live coverage of any quality than no coverage at all, my post was to try and help understand the difficulties faced for the commentators and therefore why the coverage is like it is.

I had, however, hoped that maybe cash from Audi and Peugeot may have sorted this problem for 2008 - especially considering Audi's comments re promotion.

To pick up on your point about 'Live' coverage and delayed coverage, the problem is that with the internet today it is so easy to find out results and information about the races that delayed coverage doesnt have the same impact. In the '80's all you had to do would be to avoid buying Autosport or Motoring News that week and it would be quite easy to avoid finding out the results and therefore you could watch the delayed coverage without knowing the result and therefore it would feel like live coverage.

Knowing the result really does remove a lot of the excitement from the coverage.

To move on - if as hoped - radio Le Mans starts covering the LMS is it possible that Motors / Eurosport can link up with Hindy to try and together provide a more complete coveage?

Thanks again for your response and keep up the good work, we all appreciate it really.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Mal

To move on - if as hoped - radio Le Mans starts covering the LMS is it possible that Motors / Eurosport can link up with Hindy to try and together provide a more complete coveage?

I think we all agree that not having commentators on site is one of the major problems with the Motors LMS coverage - but as Martin says, having commentators shut in a box at the circuit is no different to having those same commentator shut in a box in London or Paris. During the race.

The advantage to being on site is that in between sessions those commentators can wander around the paddock, talking to the drivers and engineers, and picking up those important bits of information which never make it onto press releases.

That's the advantage that RLM will have - they will be on site. Hopefully Motors will use that audio.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by sceptic

I think we all agree that not having commentators on site is one of the major problems with the Motors LMS coverage - but as Martin says, having commentators shut in a box at the circuit is no different to having those same commentator shut in a box in London or Paris. During the race.

The advantage to being on site is that in between sessions those commentators can wander around the paddock, talking to the drivers and engineers, and picking up those important bits of information which never make it onto press releases.

That's the advantage that RLM will have - they will be on site. Hopefully Motors will use that audio.

Also RLM usually have pitlane reporters. The other advantage of being on site is that many team members and drivers call in for interview.

[Nick49]

Hello

So better then before in that we have the races "live" on Motors TV and highlights on Eurosport.

Martin Haven says he doesn't understand why people are so keen on "live" coverage of the LMS. Well for me its like being there, as quite often you can't hear the circuit commentary anyway but you can see the action. Of course the broadcast could be vastly improved and I realise thats going to take a bit of money and organising. The trouble with highlight programmes is you quite often don't get great continuity and cars challenging for a podium place early on disappear without trace!

At the end of the day my wife can look forward to recording the "live" programmes for me again this year .

Nick

[dj4monie]

Live is a bit overrated, ever watch a 500-600 mile NASCAR race in its entirety?

Not bad if its door-handle to door-handle, but more often than not you see Jimmy Johnson lapping the field up to 2nd place.... How exciting -

I am used to pre-package road racing coverage, until Speedvision it was either a week or two weeks LATER after the results were published usually by the late Shav Glick in the LA Times, he was a motorsports fan first and a reported second, so he reported it ALL even the nichie stuff.

Anyway, Diamond P handled most of the IMSA and SCCA related stuff and we usually got Brock Yates and the late Steve Edwards and maybe one person working the pits.

As Martin said, they had time to cut the filler and let's be honest, when Audi is ahead by 4 laps after 8 hours and only GT2 is the really close battle that the host broadcasters refuse to show on screen, what do you expect them to talk about?

For Me its Alain de Cadenet and Andrew Marriott spinning the yawns of the early and mid 70's and Group C days or reminisce watching drivers in lower formulas.

Now that its LIVE/Semi Live; ALMS races are only 2:45, 45 mins of CBS, NBC and I guess now ABC is pre-recorded and the last 2 hours is live, you usually found you didn't miss much, so why complain?

Martin did bring up a point.

TV Coverage is fragmented and there has to be a solution.

On Premiere in Germany it is available as a streamed feed, I watch the 24 Hours that way last season and frankly if Speed comes up with its famous "optimized" coverage I shall be watching it on Premiere when they feel we have to watch Truck series instead..

Thanks Martin for clearing this matter up, so it won't seem my whole post was off-topic, I feel a Jansen moment...

[Knowlesy]

How is live overrated? I do not see how there can possibly be a better alternative than watching live coverage (aside from being at the track)?

[marcosgt]

A couple of people have enthused about Eurosport's Group C days coverage, but wasn't it actually another channel that covered Group C racing (Speedworld? Speedsport? Something like that) and focussed (like Motors TV) on Motor racing.

It went belly up and Eurosport did pick up a lot of racing when they did (maybe the late days of Group C), but Eurosport's Motorsport coverage has declined as a percentage of the output over the years (Seems that way anyway), although the Champ Car (guess we won't see that EITHER this year) and WTCC coverage (nice short TV friendly races, of course) is highly creditable.

Anyway, I'm glad to see the LMS get a broader coverage, but I'm glad that Motors will continue to broadcast the races live as 30 mins at the start and 20 at the end is hardly insightful (and Eurosport's usual 'edited' simply involve pasting the two ends together...)

Mark