Its Done! Drivers to stay in their own cars in the enduros! (Now with Poll!) - Page 4

sizzle · 14 Dec 2009, 04:04 (Ref:2599221)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

Winners

1976 - Bob Morris/John Fitzpatrick
1985 - John Goss/Armin Hahne
1987 - Steve Soper/Pierre Duedonne (Forgive the spelling) (Later disqualified)
1990 - Allan Grice/Win Percy

Anders Oloffssen made it onto the podium

Ludwig & Niedzwietz (Forgive the spelling) have also put their cars on pole

So there have been some fair steerers from OS who have done well at Bathurst. Also a lot who haven't done well though.

Tommy Kendall was the biggest surprise for me. Aquitted himself very well for a yank, but then never returned.

Trev the first three examples were in cars vastly different to the current examples. That could even be argued for the Grice/Percy Commodore as well.

Matt · 14 Dec 2009, 04:17 (Ref:2599224)

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Which one of those was an international? Both were full time drivers.......gooooood try tho

Murph, he's from NZ.

**GTRMagic** · 14 Dec 2009, 04:29 (Ref:2599230)

CoDrivers love it....

Perhaps not surprisingly...

Going rate for a WP codriver is alleged to be ~$35k... so its a nice payday for 2 weekends' work... allegedly

I wonder if one of the 3 calls to Mr Owen was from WP?

STEALTHY · 14 Dec 2009, 05:04 (Ref:2599237)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Murph, he's from NZ.

like i said, good try, but no go

bortall · 14 Dec 2009, 05:27 (Ref:2599241)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Going rate for a WP codriver is alleged to be ~$35k... so its a nice payday for 2 weekends' work... allegedly

I wonder if one of the 3 calls to Mr Owen was from WP?

Apart maybe from the amount of $$$

- how would this be any different to 2009 where he was with WP.

Juarez Jed · 14 Dec 2009, 08:11 (Ref:2599276)

I wonder how much more money they will get though ? If you were offered a seat with a top ten car/driver combination you'd be silly to let it slip through your fingers by holding out for more money .
And sure the Owens and Cantos of this world will now have a genuine chance of standing on the top step of the podium but how much credit will they receive for just circulating at lunch time and not breaking anything ?
The John Frenchs of this world are not as famous as the Dick Johnsons.
Consistent,trustworthy,reliable safe journeymen are going to be in much higher demand than young hotshots from the Fujitsu series.
And the current rules allowed Euros to have a one-off crack in a low key second car. A big name from the BTCC or WTCC will surely be underwhelmed by being told to circulate conservatively for a few hours, stay off the walls and don't break/crash the car of the Aussie superstar.

ForumNick · 14 Dec 2009, 09:16 (Ref:2599308)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

The John Frenchs of this world are not as famous as the Dick Johnsons.

That would depend on, which circles one moved in.

chavez · 14 Dec 2009, 10:30 (Ref:2599339)

The new rules has formalised what tended to happen in the Seventies and Eighties.

The number of two car teams that ran the ATCC was a mere handful.

Where they did exist, such as HDT, the Moffat Ford Dealers Team, Nissan, etc ,the two regular drivers would run their own car at Bathurst with a co-drivers brought in for the occasion.

Eg Bond and Harvey would run separately, as would Brock and Harvey ('78 to '86), Moffat and Bond ('77 & 78) Cullen and Harris ('84), Moffat and Gibson ('73), Seton and Fury ('87), Moffat and Hansford ('83), Grice and Harrignton ('83)

But by the end of the eighties the value of having the two regular drivers paired together was better accepted. eg Johnson and Bowe

racer69 · 14 Dec 2009, 12:19 (Ref:2599389)

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

We love having them here. How many have tamed our cars and the circuit is another story all together (not many infact)

One for the stat keepers, whats the highest place finish an international has gotten at Bathurst? And to compare apples with oranges, how many have had DNFs through non mechanical failures?

The overseas drivers are generally fine with the track, look at the ease they tamed it with particularly in 1987 and 1997, and they've had plenty of success at the track.

The problem is the cars, and how specialised they are these days even for the part-time locals, letalone international drivers used to FWD and much less weight.

mountainstar · 14 Dec 2009, 16:31 (Ref:2599523)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAC

Like this.

Maybe now we will see better driver pairings based on best driver to support the regular and less 2 paid driver pairings to fluff around in the B car

Exactly, that was my thinking. It seemed they were stacking all the A level drivers in half the cars in the field complete with silly half and half paint schemes and then leaving half the rest of field to be whored out to whatever pay drivers they could.

This change which is sensible for keeping drivers with their own cars, will be a benefit for the enduros.

Green Hornet · 14 Dec 2009, 21:11 (Ref:2599702)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

CoDrivers love it....

Perhaps not surprisingly...

Going rate for a WP codriver is alleged to be ~$35k... so its a nice payday for 2 weekends' work... allegedly

Think you will find there is a bit more than just two weekends' work . . . and you have to make your own travel arrangements for the other duties . . .

Axeman444 · 14 Dec 2009, 22:15 (Ref:2599742)

MeNews suggests the teams were consulted, and in fact voted, with a majority in the "affirm" category. So if the teams want it, what's with Tander spouting off, and more importantly, Todd (as a team owner), given i assume he would have known the result of the vote???

F J Nedos · 14 Dec 2009, 22:28 (Ref:2599758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

Also, after Ingall whined so much about it last year, I wonder what his thoughts are about the rule now... PMM are unlikely to be able to compete with the Triple 8s, WPs and FPRs of the world for the best enduro drivers, and if they do get a good one there is every chance they would be put with Murphy... leaving a high possibility of Ingall once again driving with a Tim Slade/ Owen Kelly type...

If the rule remained the same, Ingall would be paired with noted Mountain Meister Greg Murphy...

I know what I would prefer.

Hehe how would a Mr Ingall/Skaife combo go? Now that would be something to see!

F J Nedos · 14 Dec 2009, 22:29 (Ref:2599760)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman444

MeNews suggests the teams were consulted, and in fact voted, with a majority in the "affirm" category. So if the teams want it, what's with Tander spouting off, and more importantly, Todd (as a team owner), given i assume he would have known the result of the vote???

"Majority" means most - not all...

I can guess that the Kellys, 888 and HRT didn't vote for it.

Axeman444 · 14 Dec 2009, 23:06 (Ref:2599777)

so they are in effect having a whinge because they didn't get their way. Nice. i'd expect that from Wilson, and to an extent Roland, but i thought Todd was a bit better than that...

doing this within the board meeting or some other meeting would have been more beneficial you would think, but then where would The Sensationalists get their ammunition from i guess...??

Trev Campbell · 15 Dec 2009, 02:45 (Ref:2599870)

If you really want to get into it. Part time drivers who've done a great job in the enduro's (Bathurst) have all ended up with full time rides.

J. Richards 78,79,80
L. Perkins 82,83,84
T. Mezera 88
G. Hansford 93
R. Ingall 95
G. Murphy 96
S. Richards 98

There are some pretty big names there who all started out as Co-Drivers in the Great Race, and due to their performance ended up with a full time gig of some description.

**GTRMagic** · 15 Dec 2009, 03:45 (Ref:2599895)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

If you really want to get into it. Part time drivers who've done a great job in the enduro's (Bathurst) have all ended up with full time rides.

J. Richards 78,79,80
L. Perkins 82,83,84
T. Mezera 88
G. Hansford 93
R. Ingall 95
G. Murphy 96
S. Richards 98

There are some pretty big names there who all started out as Co-Drivers in the Great Race, and due to their performance ended up with a full time gig of some description.

And on the internationals theme, only LP & Mr Hansford are Australian-born in that list...

racer69 · 15 Dec 2009, 04:48 (Ref:2599917)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

If you really want to get into it. Part time drivers who've done a great job in the enduro's (Bathurst) have all ended up with full time rides.

J. Richards 78,79,80
L. Perkins 82,83,84
T. Mezera 88
G. Hansford 93
R. Ingall 95
G. Murphy 96
S. Richards 98

There are some pretty big names there who all started out as Co-Drivers in the Great Race, and due to their performance ended up with a full time gig of some description.

To be fair though alot of that list (J & S Richards, Hansford) had been regulars with full-time drives before their Bathurst wins, while Perkins was a firmly established top steerer as well prior to his move to HDT

DV_08 · 15 Dec 2009, 04:54 (Ref:2599919)

Dumbrell's performance at Bathurst in 02 certainly helped him get a full time ride.

Trev Campbell · 16 Dec 2009, 01:42 (Ref:2600508)

Jim hadn't been a real full time driver in the ATCC. He picked up the BMW drive on the back of his drives with HDT.

IIRC S. Richards had been a part timer in the ATCC with GRM (He may have been full time in 97 I can't remember) but then left to try to pick up a ride in the BTCC

Hansford had been an on again off again full time driver in the ATCC with Moffat and Johnson but picked up the Super Touring drive that ultimatly lead to his death on the back of Bathurst 93.

Pro Racer · 16 Dec 2009, 04:02 (Ref:2600535)

with the part-timer's who have impressed in recent years like your Bezzy's, Luff's and of coarse Skaife signed to multi-year deals?????

**GTRMagic** · 16 Dec 2009, 04:50 (Ref:2600538)

Moff is available & willing

racer69 · 16 Dec 2009, 07:12 (Ref:2600560)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

Jim hadn't been a real full time driver in the ATCC. He picked up the BMW drive on the back of his drives with HDT.

IIRC S. Richards had been a part timer in the ATCC with GRM (He may have been full time in 97 I can't remember) but then left to try to pick up a ride in the BTCC

Hansford had been an on again off again full time driver in the ATCC with Moffat and Johnson but picked up the Super Touring drive that ultimatly lead to his death on the back of Bathurst 93.

Jim Richards had been a regular in the Melfords Falcon in '77 (in addition to his Sports Sedan racing). He joined the JPS BMW in '82, but didn't compete in the ATCC full-time until 1984 (they did one or two rounds in 1982, and none in 1983)

Steven Richards raced full-time in the ATCC in 1996 and 1997 in the Valvoline Holden (he'd raced full-time for GRM in AUSCAR & Super Touring for them since 1994)

Having said that i know what you are saying. Jim's Bathurst wins no doubt raised his stock, though Frank Gardner may have been just as impressed by all the trouble he & his Big M Falcon had given Allan Grice & the Corvair in Sports Sedans during the same period. While Steven Richards & Gregg Hansford's Bathurst win more put them back on the map in my opinion, rather than mark them as 'new finds'

GtiMagic · 16 Dec 2009, 13:52 (Ref:2600764)

The thing that amazes me is that in all this debate no-one has mentioned one glaringly obvious factor as to why teams traditionally pair their regular drivers and run a B effort on their second car.

Tyres kids!

You think it's co-incidence that Lowndes/Whincup entered in the 888 and Tander/Davison in the 2?

Using the two championship contending teams as the example, by putting ring ins in the second cars they would likely not use the entire tyre allocation for that car allowing an impressive tyre bank for #1 and #22 for the run home in the championship.

I acknowledge that come qualifying they're all on new tyres, but surely having a few more sets of new ones during the practice session at the rounds after Bathurst will help you by the time you get to qualifying as you have a better handle on the car on new tyres.

I think, as GTR alluded to, this will ensure there are 29 A grade cars as opposed to the multiple car teams running A and B grade efforts. How is that a bad thing?

Ray Singcar · 16 Dec 2009, 20:46 (Ref:2600963)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DV_08

Dumbrell's performance at Bathurst in 02 certainly helped him get a full time ride.

You have to be kidding. It was only Daddy's fat wallet that has put him in every car he has driven

View Poll Results: Should the main game drivers stay in their regular cars in the enduros??
Yes	37	52.86%
No	27	38.57%
Dont Care	6	8.57%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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