Too many events and series in 2011

[john ruston]

Slow drivers,They pay the entry fee.Up to 1500 Quid a race.
As long as they don't get in anyone's way they can go as fast as they like they have paid to be there.
All of it is Historic Club Motorsport.
Its also important for the fast people to respect them.
To many old codgers who used to be quick thinking its important and damaging their and usually others cars.
If you want to see cut and thrust racing go and watch the new stuff.
Thought one of the main reasons for watching Historic Racing are the cars themselves.
Back to the thread.The Historic Race scene has lost the plot and I have decided over the Christmas period to cut back on my cars activities severely.
To many races not enough cars to substantiate the various series.GTSCC and Pre 63 on same programme ,don't understand

[Paul D]

You have to be careful when criticizing drivers for being slow - from a spectators perspective I mean. Most cars look pretty slow to a spectator stood 50 feet away, even stuff that's being well driven a lot of the time.

In my experience, both from competing and spectating, the only cars that look quick to a spectator are the really quick ones - and I do mean really quick stuff. I used to help prep a 700 horse power Ultima - now that thing really did look fast, even from a distance - but there isn't much in a typical club historic meeting that's going to look like that!

And if you want to complain about the cost of spectating, I actually think a typical club meeting at £10 or £15 entry is pretty good value if you compare it to other events. Remember this - whatever it's cost you to be a spectator, it's cost us, the drivers, 30 or 40 times that much to be there as competitors! So you can't really blame drivers who say they don't care whether or not you enjoy it as a spectator - they've paid a damn sight more to be there than you, and it's their hobby to conduct as they see fit. Nobody forces people to cough up and spectate, and it's not going to make much difference to the drivers if the spectators stay away.

[chunder]

Rather typical attitude, but very clearly the attitude of most that compete these days.

I have no time for people who moan about the cost of competing or even try and compare spectating to it, as with us fans, you dont have to do it and KNOW there are far cheaper forms of motorsport if competing is your bag. We go to be entertained and enjoy the sights and sounds not pay royally for the privelege of driving on a track that would not exist if it wasnt for you the drivers!

I think most events are good value for a club fan, but things like the CLassic and Revival are insanely overpriced.

I guess most fans are happy to see the cars, and to be fair I know the racing is likely to be rubbish so only go on practice days to have a nose around and chat to people so can't complain too much, this is a lesson learned from never being allowed in pits etc on race days, something I detest!

I appreciate some cars might not look quick, that is not an issue for me. It is a simple frustration of knowing that the car you are watching wobble round is so much more capable than the guy driving it! Not a criticism, just an observation and a frustration!

Why I respect guys like Stretton, Hadfield et al as they are able financially and talent wise to really give their machines the head.

Obviously someone rattling a Capri round or a MINI is not goingo to catch the attention as much at a place like Silverstone as cars get lost there, but at somewhere like Oulton or Cadwell you can see this so fair game.

[midgetman]

I used to have some business on a golf course, and I always said "if I'm ever as bad at my game as they are at golf, I'll give up racing". I actually doubt that I am any better at racing than the weekend warriors of the golf course are at golf and I'm certainly not as good as the top drivers or golfers, but I'm having a go and enjoying myself.

The difference is there's blokes like Chunder telling me I'm rubbish and I am not worthy of their money. Well, I don't ask you to come and watch you know. Go and tell the weekend golfers that they are rubbish, or Sunday footballers and see where you'd get. What's your sporting activity Chunder, can I come and see if you're any better at it than I am at mine?

What sort of attitude should I have? If I didn't race Then there would be no cannon fodder for the top racers and without cannon fodder paying the bills, no racing, if it weren't for rubbish like me there would be no superstars for you to enjoy.

Unfortunately with more series the grids will fragment and make it worse for a couple of years see JR above.

[john ruston]

The Strettons of the world are brave and fearless with other peoples cars.
This is not true for majority of entrants who are owner drivers.
Don't understand this bit about not being allowed in Pits on race days?
Can't remember a meeting where the public are not allowed access.
Has Mr Chunder ever been to a race or is this a big stirring thread.I think so!
Compared to other sports its cheap to watch Historic Racing.
Alternative for him would be London Marathon.Runners slow and it's free.25 decent runners and rest yearly plodders.

[Al Weyman]

I agreee whole heartedly with your last two posts JR, we could all go a few seconds a lap quicker if someone else was picking up the tab its constantly in my mind to stay on the black stuff and try not to stuff it or change gear 500 rpm earlier than I should and yet still it happens usually as at Lydden it someone takes you out.

BTW if Chunder really thinks historic racing is lacking in action can I suggest he buys the Jeremy Clarkson Italien Job video where he can see a combined grid of CTCRC Pre 74's and Pre 83's with action all the way down the line and this believe me was meant to be a 'staged' race, I tell you it wasnt and listen to Jeremy enthusing about the experience after what was it he said, like an episode from the Sweeney up the front!. How you can call that dull is beyond me. I paraded my car at the BTCC Brands meeting last year and watched some of the action from a fantastic suite given to us by the organisers and I have to say I have seen much more action and been in the thick of it at our meetings than I saw in most of the races that day, Ginnettas were like watching paint dry and the BTCC wasnt much better apart from one race.

[zefarelly]

Have you been on TV Al, I hadn't noticed

re speed/pace, I and many others are faster than in period in our cars ( technology not talent usually) so the 'slow' doesn't wash, as John says, if you want to see suicidal Sid with something to prove go and watch modern stuff, or more appropriately possibly a computer game, even I've been immortalised by some sad git!!!

[Al Weyman]

I was only trying to point out that if he hadnt actually been to watch an Historic race as suggested by JR this may be an easier route, now don't get *****y with me!

[simon drabble]

Chunder is clearly having fun at our expense as their are more holes in his argument than JR's string vest...

[Peter Mallett]

Especially when you read this from Trackside.

Originally Posted by chunder

50 quid sounds about right for two people to go to a LEague 1 or 2 match really, not right anyway, but market price



Stevenage costs 18 quid, why would anyone pay to watch that is you are not really that interested in who wins?



I will do Race Retro as a show,it is far more friendly, not at all coporate and actually has a hell of a lot more going on for a punter.



Not really sure why Autosport have made such an effort to push the racefan away. F1 is not the be all and end all, but then again I am sure for some fans it really is. Coz that's all they seem bothereed about

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....4&postcount=31

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

BTW if Chunder really thinks historic racing is lacking in action can I suggest he buys the Jeremy Clarkson Italien Job video.

VAT rise hitting sales?

There seem to be an above normal level of negative vibes about at the moment- maybe it's a post Christmas thing.

I expect most of us will vote with our feet, whether racers or spectators, and sounds like JR already has. Some I guess will keep trudging along while doing a good impression of Victor Meldrew.....

[smokystove]

Well just to counter chunderer's remarks with another spectator's point of view, I wouldn't take his windups to heart (not that you will, I wouldn't!).

At the risk of offending anyone who takes it more seriously, the last I heard, historic racing was a competitive hobby for enthusiasts, not a spectator sport for professional atheletes. Despite this IMO there's a lot of good racing.

Only real reason to be there whether as competitor or spectator is if you enjoy the machinery.

Old and sometimes quite valuable cars most of which struggle to even match the performance of an ordinary modern family car that are out being raced rather than polished on the weekends alone seems more than enough risk and excitement.

The entrants do it out of their own pocket regardless if they're rich or poor, so it's nobody's business to tell them how to spend their money on their hobby except for the people they compete with. Talk of "no-talent rich boys with toys" is silly and honestly sounds like misguided envy to me.

The disparity within the grid of cars and drivers to my mind is part of what makes historics interesting. Plenty of other motorsport out there to see if you don't agree.

As for price of admission, even LMC/Classic/Revival etc. often pales in comparison for a weekend compared to pro sports. For £10 you'd be lucky to have change from bringing the kids to a school football match!

Thread was an interesting read before the intrusion, I'll go back to lurking and hope some others do the same!

[john ruston]

Our man in Berlin

Doing that rally in 2011?

Agree with your input and yes it is a windup or he's a ****ed off Aussy cricket supporter trying it on.

Fruit of the Loom string vest.

[simon drabble]

Given Chunder is at college studying Journalism I think we can assume this was part of his homework!

The fact remains however that there are too many events but given the success of any series is based on paying entrants it will normalize over time and the good series will survive. This has to be good for competitor and speccy alike

[smokystove]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Our man in Berlin

Doing that rally in 2011?

Do you mean Eifelrennen Regularity? Heard (here) that it's no more.

Hoping to squeeze enough out of the piggy bank (who's apparently been on the Adkins diet the last 2 years) to come over with Magnette ZA for at least a one day of Tour Brit. Wanted to do the same last year but alas...

[john ruston]

Come and join us on Tour Brit.Its good but do the lot.It's only three days and you can cut hotel costs by using Premier Inns and stuff like that.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Our man in Berlin

Doing that rally in 2011?

Agree with your input and yes it is a windup or he's a ****ed off Aussy cricket supporter trying it on.

Fruit of the Loom string vest.

Thats where I have heard him! He is Damien from the Oval that appears now and then on the Christian O'Connel Breakfast show on Absolute Radio, well spotted JR!

BTW did you read how much Clarkson earnt last year from his extra exploits outside of Top Gear? It was something like 8 million and all we got was a bit of poxy fuel money and some free grub from the burger stand!!!

[smokystove]

Working on it JR, we'll see what the near future holds.

We'd be rubbish but it sounds like great fun.

Apropos the thread, though not circuit racing, it's a pity there aren't more events or for that matter anything like TB over here.

The Germans seem to be fond of either parades through the country, or conversely intense Bergrennen hillclimbs where you can pay to plant your car in the trees or off the side of a cliff. Not much in between.

Of course for racing there's more but nothing like in the UK.

[Dave Brand]

The problem I have, from the marshalling perspective, is not the number of events per se, but the timing. Last year there were several weekends when there was no meeting within reasonable travelling distance that I wanted to do, other weekends when there were two or three I wanted to do - for example, VSCC Oulton clashed with CSCC Anglesey. Early indications are that this year isn't going to be any better.

I do find it surprising that, at a time when we're all allegedly broke, that the number of series/championship is proliferating. Of course everybody wants a slice of the cake, but that just means smaller slices all round. I do believe that there will have to be some consolidation over the next few years, but I can understand resistance to this - amalgamating championships denies a lot of people the chance of a race, rather than class, win & every organiser will believe that his is the series that should survive.

I don't subscribe to the "big grids make good racing" philosophy - I've seen some great races with very small grid & conversely some 30-car processions. You only need two cars to make a race! Big grids are, however, essential for the financial security of the sport, as are more races crammed into a meeting, with all the operational problems that creates.

As for Chunder's whingeing. . .

In any form of racing you'll get fast drivers & slow drivers, fast cars & slow drivers & every combination thereof. Of course, paying your few quid gives you the right to judge, but I'll never criticise a driver just for being slow; bad drivers, yes, & there are as many, if not more, bad fast drivers as there are bad slow drivers.

Any driver, no matter how fast or slow, has put a lot of time & effort into getting out on the track - yes, even the rich man in his Winnebago has put in a lot of effort to arrive at the point where he can afford to race the way he wants to. An important aspect of historic racing is that some of those slow drivers you slag off are giving us the opportunity to see rare, priceless or just simply interesting cars in their natural habitat rather than just sitting gathering dust in a museum.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Any driver, no matter how fast or slow, has put a lot of time & effort into getting out on the track - yes, even the rich man in his Winnebago has put in a lot of effort to arrive at the point where he can afford to race the way he wants to. An important aspect of historic racing is that some of those slow drivers you slag off are giving us the opportunity to see rare, priceless or just simply interesting cars in their natural habitat rather than just sitting gathering dust in a museum.

What a refreshing attitude!

[terence]

Absolutely John,some excellent response's to a notorius wind up merchant [should possibly team up with Mr D]

As for too many events? I thought that any form of competition was good for weeding out the weaker club's? Similar things happen to shop's etc.

[Mike Bell]

Nicely put Dave. Good to get perspective from a different angle

[Lancsbreaker]

Agreed, Mike - and I guess I've been guilty of feeding the Chunder troll....

But now he's told us that he's such a tightwad he doesn't even come to the race days he's criticising, but is coming to Race Retro, perhaps we should jointly invite him to discuss his points with us there, face to face, and give us the benefit of his advice on how to run (away) faster

[smokystove]

To be fair at least it sounds like the fellow is headed into the right line of work, sounds to a tee like some music journalists I know...

Show up late so as to miss most of the concert.
Moan about not being on the guestlist and having to pay.
Stand in the front row and look disinterested or talk to mates during the show.
Write in the Sunday paper how crap the band was and how they could have done it better!

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by john ruston

The Strettons of the world are brave and fearless with other peoples cars.
This is not true for majority of entrants who are owner drivers.
Don't understand this bit about not being allowed in Pits on race days?
Can't remember a meeting where the public are not allowed access.
Has Mr Chunder ever been to a race or is this a big stirring thread.I think so!
Compared to other sports its cheap to watch Historic Racing.
Alternative for him would be London Marathon.Runners slow and it's free.25 decent runners and rest yearly plodders.

Spot on!