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3 Dec 2019, 23:44 (Ref:3944642) | #76 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Have to say I don’t share your opinion of Perez. Sure he had personal sponsorship but he isn’t spending family money to buy his seat. I personally don’t like the fact he comes across as a moaner and won’t take responsibility for his mistakes (last season with Ocon in particular irked me) but I feel he is a driver who is definitely there on merit. He has had some wonderful performances historically getting midfield cars on the podium and over full seasons has acquitted himself well against the likes of Hulk and Ocon. And as for Mr Stroll only wanting him because he won’t show up his son, I think you are also being grossly unfair. The evidence is that he absolutely outperformed Lance by a meaningful amount and was not hobbled in his ability to do so. Perez is also one of the best drivers in a midfield car so it is harsh to accuse Mr Stroll of putting a muppet in to partner his son. His main “sin” at this point is that he isn’t a young gun but I would suggest his performance this year in terms of points scored relative to what the car was capable of shows he has done a great job - he finished in 10th, 2 points behind Ricciardo, and if you take into account that Red Bull have 3 drivers ahead of him in the points because they shared a car between Gasly and Albon, then arguably he finished 3rd in the best of the rest comp behind Sainz and Ricciardo and importantly ahead of a young gun in Norris (clearly had a better car at his disposal) and Hulk (also in a better car). Given the equipment available to him that seems like an outstanding achievement. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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4 Dec 2019, 01:04 (Ref:3944648) | #77 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,515
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I see your point. Perez is decent. I don't view him as all that good, but he has been good on occasion. I also would guess he's good at development or setup, and of course has experience, all of which helps aid baby stroll in having as good a car as possible. But if you look at the grid, there's not really any worse driver that daddy stroll could have put there that isn't either very close to Lance's age, comes with money like perez, or is good at setup or development or at least has experience. Like, if he was interested in having a competitive second car, why wouldn't he have kept ocon instead, who looked better than perez last year? Money, and ocon is about Lance's age and experience, so if he dominates lance, there's no excuse. When the veteran does, theres at least some excuse.
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4 Dec 2019, 05:11 (Ref:3944659) | #78 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,731
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Quote:
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4 Dec 2019, 07:37 (Ref:3944672) | #79 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,431
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Lol, if he was interested in having a competitive second car the drivers would be Perez and Ocon. He bought the team so Lance could drive.
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4 Dec 2019, 10:03 (Ref:3944697) | #80 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,692
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There have been plenty of teams that have run drivers that pay the bills to keep them going. Williams did it in the 70s for example.
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__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
4 Dec 2019, 11:47 (Ref:3944712) | #81 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,515
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Well, obviously, that would be a better pairing. And it would fit what I'm talking about: a py driver bringing money and a young, rising stud in the second seat. Giving me personally some value in them being on the grid. That was my main point, that an 18 car grid without stroll and perez is no different than a 20 car grid with them. So the original post I responded to was whether it was worth keeping the 2 cars on grid. To me, it's not. Doesn't help anything at all.
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4 Dec 2019, 12:08 (Ref:3944716) | #82 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,692
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That’s ridiculous. Fact is they are worth being on the grid in the long run. It’s early days, but just remember how Force India went from being a backmarker to an occasional podium visiter. There is time for Racing Point to be up there
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__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
4 Dec 2019, 12:11 (Ref:3944717) | #83 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,638
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Perez scored more points than Ocon and the two of them were very well matched, so I am not following your logic that Racing Point's existence is pointless due to the fact that they have Perez in the car instead of Ocon.
You would rather have less cars on the grid - OK - each to their own. I assume you will pretty much on your own on that point. Perez was my driver of the day for his brilliant drive in the final race of the season - where he drive brilliantly to beat drivers such as Ricciardo, Hulk, Sainz and Norris. |
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It's just my opinion. |
4 Dec 2019, 13:35 (Ref:3944735) | #84 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,891
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Oh boy some people do not actually understand what F1 is about, we need full grids and that will always mean some cars are less competitive that others. If F1 is to survive it needs to attract spectators, viewers, sponsors and all that goes with it. Saying that teams should not be there just because they are running on a lower budget or have pay drivers will cause the death of F1 if grids shrink so will revenue and as less money and less interest then hits the teams left they to will struggle and then the take over of formula E will eventually happen, but before that i will have long stopped watching it anyway.
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4 Dec 2019, 13:51 (Ref:3944737) | #85 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,400
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.... the latter with a brilliant pass by Perez on the last lap. (Also my driver of the race)
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4 Dec 2019, 17:33 (Ref:3944795) | #86 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,515
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Quote:
Yes, f1 has and will have and probably needs pay drivers to keep it going. And if a team has one of their two drivers being that, fine. (Hello, latifi). But if you're going to be worth paying attention to, or provide any entertainment value, (which is kinda the bottom line), the second seat should be something to dream on. With racing point, you have two paying drivers, with nothing to dream on in the way of competitiveness, because they have not one, but two pay drivers. And I conceded earlier I may be more down on perez than others. I just think at this point he's in the grosjean range of just taking up a seat that isn't really going anywhere. There again, with haas, you can at least squint to see some upside in magnussen, especially since he's still young, to make them worth watching. So perez was comparable with ocon - in ocons rookie year, as perez was a veteran, while causing wrecks to ocon (moreso than the other way around). I just am not impressed. Maybe if he was younger to indicate more upside, maybe. But I still concede I may underrating him. But, does anyone here think he would ever deserve the second mercedes or red bull seat? Just for comparisons sake, ask the same about Norris, russell, ocon, giovanazi (less so, but he is a ferrari driver), etc.... Where does perez stack up when looking at it that way? Of course I want more cars on the grid, not less. But i just get no value from that team at all, because they might as well be nonexistant, because with that driver pairing, they pretty much are. There is no upside to dream on, only a play toy for the rich and a cash cow. |
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4 Dec 2019, 18:16 (Ref:3944804) | #87 | ||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,934
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Sorry, but I just don't see that at all...
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__________________
280 days...... |
4 Dec 2019, 19:04 (Ref:3944824) | #88 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,951
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Quote:
popular support is a hard thing to quantify and its value is subjective but look at the Mexican GP (which arguably might not exist without Checo on the grid) or the number of followers a person has on social media (as of early 2018 Checo was the 4th most followed on the grid). https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...n-social-media his millions of followers (i would guess) far outweighs the number followers the team itself has...in this age of social media, Perez is massively important to this team and is possibly the only reason anyone actually follows that team. arguably i would even say he was/is more valuable to FI/RP then SV is to Ferrari. |
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Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
4 Dec 2019, 20:03 (Ref:3944848) | #89 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
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and yet the sport can do without Fred's 6 million followers and his undoubted talent. There is something pretty broken for a sport that represents itself as the apex of motorsport.
I think RWill20173's post would be far better applied to Williams than Racing Point, the latter are at least trying to be competitive whereas Williams only seem to be taking everyone's money and running! Start and park mentality. |
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4 Dec 2019, 20:10 (Ref:3944849) | #90 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,515
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Quote:
The only thing I would push back on with that, is that racing point would be more relevant (possibly) with say, a george Russell there instead. I say that because they would then be apart of the silly seasons, draw focus because one of the possible replacements for bottas is there, so let's focus on how good he does in that car, etc... whether that offsets Perez's fanbase, idk. But perez on a different team, paired with another young hotshoe, creates another team worth following, for two reasons. Perez's fanbase, and the young up and coming driver (or older guy like a kimi or Ricciardo). |
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10 Dec 2019, 23:54 (Ref:3946040) | #91 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
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Interesting article here from Mark Hughes on the breach of the declared fuel weight in Leclerc's Ferrari:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...nd-controversy It seems clear that the only reason to breach this rule would be to exceed the maximum fuel flow regulation, so why was the car not simply DSQ'd? Was the other car also breaching the regulation? |
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11 Dec 2019, 12:07 (Ref:3946128) | #92 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,107
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Quote:
Now that I have finished arguing the Ferrari position (and I think they can make a strong argument against your DSQ idea), there clearly is a lot of smoke. Maybe they used this more in qualifying than in the race (as the article speculates). Who knows the details of the previous weight checks? Maybe the FIA allows some secret threshold of overage (similar to the jump start system) before they deem the weight suspect. So who knows maybe they have been suspiciously high a number of times and just now the FIA acted. The clarification that the other teams asked for, impoundment and inspection of the Ferrari fuel system and movement to include a second sensor into the system in the future means there is strong suspicion that Ferrari are gaming the flow. It very well could be that if they are doing so, it might be clever enough that definitive physical evidence may be difficult or nearly impossible to obtain using the current monitoring system (hence additional sensor in the future). So Ferrari may have been exposed/penalized as deeply as the FIA feels they can defend based upon the existing evidence. Additionally, after all of this speculation, investigation and rule clarification, I believe Ferrari has lost a bit of their edge that they commanded earlier in the season. Perhaps after the rule clarification they have stopped any creative methods? I doubt we will ever know for sure. Richard |
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To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
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