Speed News: New Effort to Unify the Indy Racing League and Champ Car (Merged again)

[jock25]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

The Indy 500 will always be the Indy 500, but are you actually saying it should defy the less-than-stellar global economic climate that we currently have?

Fair point but...

...the point is Indy is diminshed at the moment. The month of May is much shorter and yes there was a bump, but only one! Yes there are perhaps economic factors outwith the control of auto racing chiefs but the manner in which TG has gone about the split has contributed to the problems the race faces.

Also, the economic climate has not prevented Nascar from strengthening its position.

I would never wish to suggest that the 500 become "just another race" and when the unification occurs, it should and will be under terms where the month of May remains sacred and probably expanded over its current structure.

[mountainstar]

By a quirk of fate, the Indy 500, has become just another race. Formerly the "month of may" now barely "the 2 weeks of may". Where once it was a major bargaining chip, no more. Have a look at pictures from qualifying, the place is empty. A high school football game could easily outdraw that.

[rush1]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

By a quirk of fate, the Indy 500, has become just another race. Formerly the "month of may" now barely "the 2 weeks of may". Where once it was a major bargaining chip, no more. Have a look at pictures from qualifying, the place is empty. A high school football game could easily outdraw that.

Another race like Monterrey or the Portland Grand Prix?

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

By a quirk of fate, the Indy 500, has become just another race. Formerly the "month of may" now barely "the 2 weeks of may". Where once it was a major bargaining chip, no more. Have a look at pictures from qualifying, the place is empty. A high school football game could easily outdraw that.

So you mean CART wanting to lessen the importance of the race in the mid 90's would have been a better solution?

If the CART head honchos hadn't spooked TG with their ill-considered talk, all this BS would never have happened.

Simple as that.

[rustyfan]

Another article regarding unification, this time by Steve Ballard of the Indianapolis Star. While it doesn't contain anything sensational, it does contain some interesting segments..

Link: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...39/1004/SPORTS

Some pieces of interest:

Fearing the news leaks that have undermined previous talks, the principals are revealing few details. But George, after saying Sunday at the Speedway that to even confirm the discussions "wouldn't be constructive," agreed the time has come for a reconciliation.

"I think with each day that passes, it becomes more and more obvious it would be the right thing to do," he said.

Sounds like Tony George has changed his attitude somewhat - earlier in the year he sounded a lot more sceptical.

Roger Penske, a CART co-founder whose jump to the IRL in 2001 began a shift in the balance of power between the series, has tried for years to broker a resolution. The latest was last summer when a cash and compromise offer from the IRL was met with a counter offer from Champ Car. Talks broke down over how the unified series would be governed and Champ Car's insistence that George not be involved.

Earlier this month, Penske expressed frustration that those negotiations fizzled.

"I was real disappointed that we had a very fair opportunity and it was a time we could have put this together, which would have been effective in 2005," he said.

I didn't realize discussions went that far the last time. Perhaps it would be easier to come up with a compromise now, since George, after all, has handed over the day-by-day control of the series.

Personally I wouldn't want to see Tony George, Kevin Kalkhoven nor Gerry Forsythe being involved in the running of a unified series. Same goes for anyone with a owner's interest in a team. And anyone with ideas about taking it public should be tied to a Greyhound bus and get dragged out of town

Kidding aside, I'm not sure what the best solution would be, but perhaps a balanced panel consisting of experienced non-BS kind of people coming from both sides would be the ideal scenario.

[jock25]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

Personally I wouldn't want to see Tony George, Kevin Kalkhoven nor Gerry Forsythe being involved in the running of a unified series. Same goes for anyone with a owner's interest in a team. And anyone with ideas about taking it public should be tied to a Greyhound bus and get dragged out of town

Definitely.

Hearing the softening in TG's stance is the best thing for a long while.

I think that the way CC has been working this season, recruiting a lot of top sports marketers and business people is the way to go. They have been getting in guys with experience from the NFL and Nascar, who have been working to targets about TV coverage, sponsorship revenue, attendance etc. But most importantly they have few vested interests apart from making their sport/championship successful.

Hopefully once a unified series emerges the objectives and management will be very simple: 1) make open-wheel racing the top form of motor sport in North America by TV audience, sponsorship & attendance; and 2) rebuild the reputation of Indy as the world's greatest race.

In the longer term they can aim for making it the top sport!

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

By a quirk of fate, the Indy 500, has become just another race. Formerly the "month of may" now barely "the 2 weeks of may". Where once it was a major bargaining chip, no more. Have a look at pictures from qualifying, the place is empty. A high school football game could easily outdraw that.

It still has more fans in attendance than any any other race, including the Brickyard 400 at the same track, so it is hardly "just" another race.

It also get more press, for one race, than any other race in the world, including the LeMans, which used to get a lot of press coverage in the US.

Bob

[jock25]

But in comparison to the golden era pre-96, you cannot hide the fact Indy gets less coverage, less spectators and less entrants than it did and the traditional month-long practice has been drastically reduced.

While it may not yet be "just another race" it is a lot closer to it than a lot of people, TG included, would probably admit.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by jock25

But in comparison to the golden era pre-96, you cannot hide the fact Indy gets less coverage, less spectators and less entrants than it did and the traditional month-long practice has been drastically reduced.

Champ Car racing as a whole was losing fans to NASCAR even before that though - the split just helped accelerate it.

Originally Posted by jock25

While it may not yet be "just another race" it is a lot closer to it than a lot of people, TG included, would probably admit.

The month of May might be different, the car numbers might be down and the spectators might be fewer, but with its almost 100-year history, and all the drama that has transpired there, Indy will always be special, regardless of how hard some tries to belittle it and ignore the history of the place.

[jock25]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

The month of May might be different, the car numbers might be down and the spectators might be fewer, but with its almost 100-year history, and all the drama that has transpired there, Indy will always be special, regardless of how hard some tries to belittle it and ignore the history of the place.

I think you are misunderstanding me rustyfan.

My point is very simple - TG set out to safeguard Indy and its status as the greatest race and "not just another race" in the Indycar calender. With the way Indy is right now, in 2005, it is clear his experiment with the IRL failed.

At no time have I ignored the history of the place, quite to contrary. I am disappointed that the bitter civil war has created a decade of history that doesn't match the previous 80 or so years.

I very much hope that either through realisation on both sides of the CC/IRL divide that enough is enough, or through a bit of pushing by Honda or anyone else, that both sides get together, create one series and we can all go racing again. Then we can start doing justice to the history of the track and the legend.

[norman-normal]

A history of technological indifference. (racing for the masses)

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by jock25

I think you are misunderstanding me rustyfan.

My point is very simple - TG set out to safeguard Indy and its status as the greatest race and "not just another race" in the Indycar calender. With the way Indy is right now, in 2005, it is clear his experiment with the IRL failed.

At no time have I ignored the history of the place, quite to contrary. I am disappointed that the bitter civil war has created a decade of history that doesn't match the previous 80 or so years.

I very much hope that either through realisation on both sides of the CC/IRL divide that enough is enough, or through a bit of pushing by Honda or anyone else, that both sides get together, create one series and we can all go racing again. Then we can start doing justice to the history of the track and the legend.

Unless the variety of equipment is returned to Indy, no matter what happens, it will not have the huge audience it did into the eighties.
It used to be just as interesting to see what showed up at the track, without regard as to whether or not it made the race.
This was part of the qualifying aura.

The spec. type rules adapted by both OWRS and IRL, has killed that part of Indym and open wheel racing period.

One can never forget that sheer speed, was also part of Indy and the continual rules changing that kill that part, has replaced--better & faster. with controlled sameness.

Bob

[Tim Northcutt]

As a guy who watched as a kid before attending my first Indy 500 in 1967, I would have to agree with you, Bob....

The innovation and the interesting cars, engines, etc that got wheeled into Gasoline Alley years ago would boggle the mind....

Smokey Yunnick's "Side Car" entry....the STP Turbines....Roger Rager taking a Chevy block out of a School Bus in Brownsburg, Indiana, getting a race build done to it, and qualifying in the Top Ten....even cars that had six wheels (some with four in the front, some with four in the rear...)

But I will tel you this....Last year's race was some of the best racing I've seen at Indy...cars 3 and 4 wide down the backstretch...Tomas Scheckter passing 6 cars with one move as he headed for the 3rd Turn....Buddy Rice drving an absolutely fearless race to win it....on a couple of pit rotations, he was as far down as 16th....

and although they are not running laps of 235 mph, they are back up in the high 220s....which means their speeds on the straights is a little over 230 mph...

Just because it is not the "Glory Days" doesn't mean that the quality of on-track racing has suffered one little bit....

Expect an incredibly exciting race this Sunday...


and expect a huge crowd....

every year I hear how the crowds are allegedly smaller....but every year the place looks packed, plus there are many more people sitting all of the infield mounds....

Final Note....

People talk about how the infield used to be a sea of people and now it is not...that's because IMS has twice the number of permanent seats now....

and how hotels had to be booked a year in advance back in the 1980s....but Indy has nearly 30,000 more hotel rooms in the area than it did 20-25 years ago...

It is still the "Greatest Spectacle in Racing"...the roar of the crowd when they take the Green Flag to start the race is still the loudest cheer I've ever heard at ANY sporting event...even louder than in a Domed Stadium....despite the fact that IMS is a HUGE Place....

If you enjoy good, fast, close action with lots of passing, then you will certainly enjoy this Sunday's race....

Whether Paul Tracy or Paul Newman are there or not...

[gttouring]

even if there is a schism in Openwheel inNA, i always watch a 500.
it is the test for speed and endurance while dancing on a blades sharp edge
lets hope it is a safeone.

[Bob Riebe]

Tim:
The Indianapolis 500, will, probalby, always be the crown jewel of US racing.

This year my enthusiasm was lower than it probably has ever been but as the race grew closer, one cannot shake the aura of the race.

It is the qualifying and lead-in that has lost the most glimmer.
, if they can bring that back, then ALL will be right again.

Bob

PS--I will be VERY happy if both Honda and Toyota never darken Indy's dooerstep again. (of course if Toyota runs a version of its push-rod engine, I may reconsider)

[crozier74]

Excellent

Bout time things started moving seriously. This needs to happen, and the sooner the better.

[racer69]

A few thoughts;

- George's aim all along has been to protect the Indianapolis 500. In the mid-90s, when CART were dictating their terms to him and wouldn't allow him a say he had a choice, keep getting ignored and knocked back by team owners who weren't giving the race the respect it deserved (They wanted a sanction fee from Indy and a shorter month didn't they, despite the race falling under USAC control, not CART), or start his own series which would allow the 500 to keep taking centre stage. If a unified series embraced the 500 and it's traditions, and George is treated differently (it'd probably be one of the terms of unification), i think George would be all for it.

- Anyone thinking a unified series is going to provide bumper grids full of sponsor's is dreaming. A combined series would be highly unlikely to field 30 cars to start with. A unified series would see OWRS stop backing the however many teams they back now, and the likes of AGR, Ganassi and Rahal-Letterman would probably knock off a car each. It will take a while for sponsors to get confidence back in Open-Wheel racing.

- A unified series cannot be allowed to be pulverised by street circuits only there because someone is paying you to go there (I'm looking at the likes of China and Korea). It needs to be an equal representation, say 10 ovals, 5 road courses and 5 street circuits, and they need to be as American based as possible to build it back up.

- Finally, it is amazing when you think about it what American Open-Wheel racing means to people around the world. Would many other 'national' categories get debated in households around the world. Me and my brother regularly have some great debates on the merits of both ChampCar and Indycar, and we are all the way in Australia where they are shown late at night and only the ChampCar's pop up down here once a year. This is all because the Indianapolis 500 is an internationally renowned event.

[mac]

Originally Posted by racer69

- Anyone thinking a unified series is going to provide bumper grids full of sponsor's is dreaming. A combined series would be highly unlikely to field 30 cars to start with. A unified series would see OWRS stop backing the however many teams they back now, and the likes of AGR, Ganassi and Rahal-Letterman would probably knock off a car each. It will take a while for sponsors to get confidence back in Open-Wheel racing.

I think sponsors would have a lot more confidence in one united series going in one direction, than in split series' pulling the OW boat in a million different directions.

[mabs_nsx]

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_s...me=auto_racing

[Kicking-back]

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68061

[Down F0rce]

I feel a merge coming on

[Down F0rce]

Done

[Tim Northcutt]

Done????

A thread, or the two Series????

I can guess which one.....

[sr230772]

do you really think the indy 500 is really that big on a global stage. i think not ask someone in europe they might of heard of it but they wont watch it.why they never promoted in europe and around the world il never know.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by sr230772

do you really think the indy 500 is really that big on a global stage. i think not ask someone in europe they might of heard of it but they wont watch it.why they never promoted in europe and around the world il never know.

I wouldn't know for sure....but I can tell you this:

Whenever I go out to the track on any given day (Practice, Quals, or Race Weekend) in May, I meet at a minimum 15-20 foreigners per visit.....at a minimum...even on a weekday.....every time I go....

Asians, Aussies, you name a European country, South Africa, South Americans.....even a few Africans...I've met them from every continent but Antarctica over the years

This weekend, there will be MANY from nations around the world....as there have always been on the weekend of THE RACE here in Indy.....

A guy from Australia e-mailed me via this Forum back in November for ticket & hotel advice....

He's coming in, and I've e-mailed him my number to hook up with me when he gets here....

just a thought....

if someone in Europe has "heard" of it, wouldn't that maybe tell you that it has at least somewhat of a global presence???

Not being confrontational here....

But from my own personal experience, I would think that it does have a global presence....

FWIW....