Lotus 41

[Mike Gilbert]

I have Lotus 41 F3 16 Engine No. 66044. Melvyn Long was first owner in 1966. I bought the car Jan 1970. Won the SCCA Forumla C National Championship in 1973.
I have extensive history on car and I am doing complete restoration will be on it's wheels soon. Have I found the right place for this information?
Mike G

[allenbrown]

You certainly have Mike. Welcome!

[Mike Gilbert]

willga on 6 Apr 2007 ask about a Lotus 41 FL 33 in France.

There is a Lotus 41C F3 33 MAE engine No. 67223 about 5 miles from me. How can there be two serial numbers that close?
I have Lotus 41 F3 16 MAE engine No. 66044 I live in Washigton State USA.

[Johnelmes]

I have just stumbled upon the note from David Martin Brown, written in Feb 2009.

My wife and I ran a 41 in Monoposto and various sprints during the late 1970 and early 80s. We bought the rolling chassis from Jim Ward in 1976. Jim had used it in Formula4, having purchased it from Roy Lewington sometime after 1974. We still have the car.

We believed it to be the Mo Nunn 41, based on word of mouth, confirmed by Jim Bennett when he saw it during a visit to the UK in ’94. We cannot find a chassis plate or backup documentation to confirm its early history however.

The car had had some front suspension mods and had been fitted with large wheels and wings when we got it. It was painted blue over what seemed to be the original red. We fitted a 1600 downdraft, then a twincam. It still had the original chassis and Mk 6 Hewland when we stored it in the late 80s.

It is now undergoing a restoration by Peter Denty, but it was always too tight for us to fit in and drive properly, so we will probably sell it after over 36 years of ownership.

If anyone can shed light on its history between 1967 and 1976 we would be very grateful.

The 41 still goes down as one of the most rewarding chassis to drive.

Best regards to all members of the forum

John

[Unit 2 Racing]

I remember this car in F4 Roy Lewington used it in 1974 finishing 5th in his first season in single seater, before replacing it with a Brabham BT28.
Jim Ward used the Lotus in 1975 finishing 7th again in F4, then having sold the Lotus in 1976 Jim then raced his self built GEM for a number of seasons in F4.

[daytona1]

Lotus 41-F3-6 (now correctly identified) can be seen at www.vintageracer.com

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by daytona1

Lotus 41-F3-6 (now correctly identified) can be seen at www.vintageracer.com

Can only see pictures on the website. Can you tell us its history?

[daytona1]

Re: Lotus 41-F3-6: I purchased the car in Dec. 2000 through vintage racer and Lotus enthusiast Jim Bennett. The was on display in England where it apparently been for years. When I imported the car it had the original 1000cc "screamer engine" in place, and was, and still is, in its unrestored "as raced" condition.

The car was originally raced by Malcolm Payne (GB; Jim Russell Racing School) and appeared at Goodwood, Oulton Park, and Snetterton in March and April 1966. The car was then sold to Gunner Carlsson (Sweden) where the car appeared on several entry lists in 1966. The car then went to Haglund, and then to Nilsson.

I will be posting the details of the history on www.vintageracer.com. Also see post #58 on this forum 24 Jan 2008 by Hagis.

[allenbrown]

Are you sure they are the same cars? The car Greger Peterson owned in Sweden for many years didn't come to England until 1998 at the earliest. But the car Jim Bennett sold you had been "on display in England where it apparently been for years". Had Jim Bennett bought it at the auction?

[daytona1]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Are you sure they are the same cars? The car Greger Peterson owned in Sweden for many years didn't come to England until 1998 at the earliest. But the car Jim Bennett sold you had been "on display in England where it apparently been for years". Had Jim Bennett bought it at the auction?

Jim never owned the car - he just saw it while on a business trip to England, and then made arrangements for me to buy the car. The early history was provided when I bought the car. I'm not actually sure how long it was in England, or what the origin of the information was. I'm finally trying to put together an accurate history on the car, so any help will be appreciated.
Thanks.

[VantageV8]

This is Jim Bennett, I have been out of this for quite a while. I sold all of my 41's about 10 years ago and moved all the way up to a JPS Type 76, ex-Peterson. About 8 years ago I was diagnosed with late onset Type 1 diabetes and sold my last two cars. Recently I got a call from a racer in Chicago with a 41 chassis and now I have started corresponding with Sam on the 41 I helped him get many years ago. I will be back home in Madison WI in a couple of weeks and I hope to reconfirm everything I originally told Sam, plus maybe find some more. I still have all of the original chassis records from Lotus and would be glad to help people authenticate their cars. I still know a lot about these cars and have accumulated many photos. I also have much of teh same information on Type 69's, too.

[Neptune]

Hi Jim and Sam,

Jim, I had wondered what had happened to you since you were such a presence in Lotus formula cars in the 90's. So sorry to hear of your medical issues.

Is Sam by any chance near Daytona Florida and any chance you are visiting with him. I am at our winter home just north of Daytona and would love to see you again. This was a great winter not to be in Ohio.

Roger

[VantageV8]

Roger,
I believe Sam is still in NYC, at least his cell phone is.
I have a home on the south coast of Spain, what the hell am I doing in Wisconsin and Colorado? I'm planning my escape now. I am very envious of people who have already figured out how to do that.
I think it would be worth considering creating an actual Lotus 41 register like many other models have. I used to have a pretty comprehensive list of owners and I have a complete list of chassis numbers and other identifying items. I have always enjoyed the detective work, the issue for me is time. It might be good therapy for me to get my mind off of work.
Let me know your thoughts.
Jim

[BBlair]

Let me add another wrinkle to the 41 story, and the Gus Hutchison cars.

About 1976, I purchased a 41 Formula B that was purported to be an ex-Gus Hutchison car. The plate number was 69 41D 02 , supposedly #02 of two made to this spec. I have never seen another mention of a 'D' model, so hopefully there is someone who has chassis records somewhere that might provide clues. It was obviously a Formula B type, with much larger brakes and suspension from the Formula C 41 MAE model I had worked on in the Seattle area. @ Mike Gilbert - was the other F3 you mentioned Jim Dewey's car that he bought and raced a few times in the mid 70's ?

I bought the 41D from someone in the San Francisco area (sorry, don't remember the name - maybe Dave Ross?).

It had a twin-cam short block and a mis-matched HRE cylinder with the gigantic valves used, and an FT200 transaxle. It had sheet aluminum cockpit sides, a section of original bodywork top, a separate "sports car" style nose, similar to the Formula Atlantics of the mid 70s , and a large rear wing. It also came with a new untrimmed original body, and the original nose section with period correct stickers for the L&M Continental series. This may have had the winglets mentioned earlier, I truly don't remember.

The twin-cam could best be described as a collection of parts that didn't work with each other, so I sold them to another Lotus collector in the area. I purchased a Cosworth Formula B motor for the 41, and raced it for one season in our local club races in Seattle.

The car was sold without engine and transaxle to someone in the Seattle area who was planning to auto-cross it. He is still in the area and competing in SCCA solo events, so I hope I can connect and track down where this 41 went.

[pantah]

I have just acquired a Lotus 41 from Fay Curtis of Kneeland CA. The car belonged to her husband Bert, who sadly passed earlier this year. The car no longer carries its chassis-plate, although there are marks and rivet holes to indicate it has had one at some point. Fay thinks he bought it in the late 1980's without engine or gearbox from someone in either Texas or possibly Arizona. It had been fitted with a twin-cam apparently. It came with original bodywork in Yellow, but in very poor condition.
Bert stored the car and a few years ago as a bit of a 'self-challenge' decided to see ho wit would go in sprints fitted with a Mazda rotary engine and a Renault Fuego gearbox! This necessitated several engine bay and rear-cross-member modifications, and Bert almost had it complete before he passed away. He had fitted new bodywork, again in yellow, albeit with highly modified engine cover.
It was believed that the car was one of the three Gus Huchison cars, and earlier in this thread there is reference to one being in the ownership of someone in Texas. Original yellow bodywork is another clue.
Can anyone shed any light on this car?

[allenbrown]

Any SCCA number stamped into the roll hoop? Also have a look for an AM stamped on the rear of the chassis.

[pantah]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Any SCCA number stamped into the roll hoop? Also have a look for an AM stamped on the rear of the chassis.

Car is in a container, and will land in UK in about 6-7 weeks. Obviously I'd asked for AM number, but given modifications I mentioned - I think the pickup point / bracket where it is normally found has long since become victim of the changes.
I've bought four other cars from USA all of which had SCCA log books, but only one (Lotus 20FJ) actually had number stamped in roll hoop. The other three may have had at some point, but all three had 'modern' roll hoops retro-fitted in accordance with more modern height standards etc, and had not been re-stamped. I will check throughly when it arrives, but absence of a stamp isn't necessarily putting me off the trail.....

I'm also going to send you a PM regarding another car I own which you have commented and assisted me with on here....

[allenbrown]

Please email me instead: allen@oldracingcars.com.

[pantah]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Please email me instead: allen@oldracingcars.com.

OK - it will be tomorrow now....

[pantah]

Originally Posted by pantah

I have just acquired a Lotus 41 from Fay Curtis of Kneeland CA. The car belonged to her husband Bert, who sadly passed earlier this year. The car no longer carries its chassis-plate, although there are marks and rivet holes to indicate it has had one at some point. Fay thinks he bought it in the late 1980's without engine or gearbox from someone in either Texas or possibly Arizona. It had been fitted with a twin-cam apparently. It came with original bodywork in Yellow, but in very poor condition.
Bert stored the car and a few years ago as a bit of a 'self-challenge' decided to see ho wit would go in sprints fitted with a Mazda rotary engine and a Renault Fuego gearbox! This necessitated several engine bay and rear-cross-member modifications, and Bert almost had it complete before he passed away. He had fitted new bodywork, again in yellow, albeit with highly modified engine cover.
It was believed that the car was one of the three Gus Huchison cars, and earlier in this thread there is reference to one being in the ownership of someone in Texas. Original yellow bodywork is another clue.
Can anyone shed any light on this car?

Bert apparently bought the car in early 80's, not late 80's, from a chap in Texas called Joe who had owned the car since about 1970 and had some sort of connection with the first owner. I believe he may have driven it in late 60's as a race-rental type of arrangement before he eventually purchased it. Details sketchy I'm afraid !

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by pantah

I have just acquired a Lotus 41 from Fay Curtis of Kneeland CA. The car belonged to her husband Bert, who sadly passed earlier this year. The car no longer carries its chassis-plate, although there are marks and rivet holes to indicate it has had one at some point. Fay thinks he bought it in the late 1980's without engine or gearbox from someone in either Texas or possibly Arizona. It had been fitted with a twin-cam apparently. It came with original bodywork in Yellow, but in very poor condition.
Bert stored the car and a few years ago as a bit of a 'self-challenge' decided to see ho wit would go in sprints fitted with a Mazda rotary engine and a Renault Fuego gearbox! This necessitated several engine bay and rear-cross-member modifications, and Bert almost had it complete before he passed away. He had fitted new bodywork, again in yellow, albeit with highly modified engine cover.
It was believed that the car was one of the three Gus Huchison cars, and earlier in this thread there is reference to one being in the ownership of someone in Texas. Original yellow bodywork is another clue.
Can anyone shed any light on this car?

There were quite a lot of 41s imported to the US both new and second hand. All are now believed ex Hutchison in the way that all March 75/76/77B are believed ex Villeneuve. By the mid 70s I count 12 racing or stored in the US, which is more than a fifth of the total 41 production, split over FC and FB. (And I don't know that my records are complete. I can identify seven of those against specific chassis numbers)
One way of shedding light is starting with the roll hoop. What are the SCCA region numbers stamped there?
That will give us a rough date and precise location in the early 1970s.

I do, BTW, have someone called Joe racing an FB Lotus 41 but let's not speculate...

[pantah]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

There were quite a lot of 41s imported to the US both new and second hand. All are now believed ex Hutchison in the way that all March 75/76/77B are believed ex Villeneuve. By the mid 70s I count 12 racing or stored in the US, which is more than a fifth of the total 41 production, split over FC and FB. (And I don't know that my records are complete. I can identify seven of those against specific chassis numbers)
One way of shedding light is starting with the roll hoop. What are the SCCA region numbers stamped there?
That will give us a rough date and precise location in the early 1970s.

I do, BTW, have someone called Joe racing an FB Lotus 41 but let's not speculate...

I contacted the vendor last night (bearing in mind car is on its way to UK now in a container) and she says there is number stamp on the hoop. Unhelpfully the first number is '41' which I assume is related in someway to the car type?? There is a dash then another three digits (I will email you those). I guess someone simply stamped it with 41 because it is a Lotus 41 then?

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by pantah

I contacted the vendor last night (bearing in mind car is on its way to UK now in a container) and she says there is number stamp on the hoop. Unhelpfully the first number is '41' which I assume is related in someway to the car type?? There is a dash then another three digits (I will email you those). I guess someone simply stamped it with 41 because it is a Lotus 41 then?

The SCCA's Texas Region was No 41 so all their stamps started 41-. Just a coincidence.

[pantah]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Any SCCA number stamped into the roll hoop? Also have a look for an AM stamped on the rear of the chassis.

Now car is in UK - the SCCA stamp is 41-FL-5. Can we trace history from this? I understand Region / Area 41 of SCCA is in Texas?

[allenbrown]

Are you sure that's not the frame number? 41 is indeed Texas Region but it's also the model of the car. Can you post (or send me) a picture of the number you've found?

(allen@oldracingcars.com)