Modus - Page 4

Bryan Miller · 6 Oct 2003, 10:04 (Ref:1586097)

Chris/Roger.

I just realised I answered both of your questions over on the Modus thread . sorry about that.
Bryan.

Chris. You never came back in reply to the Brabham BT28/9/30/35/36 question.

Will I start another thread, I have dug up all sorts of Lovveerrlly info. ??????????????

Bryan.

IANHEB · 6 Oct 2003, 10:25 (Ref:1556242)

Bryan,
I agree,the tub build date of Feb 76 seems too late to have been the original tub for either the Domingo or Charlton cars,which both did the first Atlantic race Jan 24 76.Nobody has ever mentioned a replacement/spare tub,although we know that both cars had big accidents in '77.Is there any mention of 043 on the records ?
Ian

Neptune · 6 Oct 2003, 19:16 (Ref:1556244)

Bryan/ All,
All the photos I have are larger than what can be attached to a message. I'll have to make less detailed versions from the originals to get them onto the site.

On another parallel thread, perhaps not started yet, I was out on the NW corner of town this morning and dropped into Geof's shop and the TOJ 205 sports racer is still there. I didn't have my camera with me and I know the car is for sale (I thought it had already sold) If this is what I think it is, it should say Modus on all the suspension castings etc, as I think this is the correct Model to have been made during Obermoser's purchase from Modus, and not the earlier GRD or later Argo models. I didn't see a chassis # plate in the cockpit today, but there ought to be one and I'm curious if it says Modus or TOJ. This also relates back to Gunther's F3 Toyota powered car on the left coast that he claimed was a TOJ and has cahssis # plate M1-016-F3. Seems like someone earlier in this thread posed a query about 016.

Roger

Bryan Miller · 6 Oct 2003, 23:02 (Ref:1556245)

All.

The Dave Charlton car M3-025-FA is according to the records ex. works 24-9-1975, which is easy to get the car over , sorted and in it's 1st. race on Jan. 24 1976.

How we can have a Feb. 76 build tub on the grid a month before it is built is beyond me . So we have to presume this is a replacement tub , but for which car .

Ian are you sure this is the ex. Domingo tub , and somewhere over the years the ex. Charlton tub hasn't become entangled, it has happened plenty of times over here.

Roger .

If the TOJ has a plate this will tell us a lot, as long as it is a Modus build as opposed to a GRD build.

Ian , you asked about 043.
According to the records , M1-043-F3 , sold to Interauto , in Italy as the agent.
As I said yesterday , virtually impossible to expect tub and chassis numbers to coincide except on the first few cars , and then not for too long a period, due to rebuilds.

Roger , I had forgotten that M1-016 -F3 was over there , I have just pulled out the photo's you sent.

I WOULD LOVE TO GET THE UNADULTERATED RECORDS BEFORE , Marcus updated them.

This is listed as M1-016-F3 , 1975 works/Danny Sullivan, looks like it then went to Gunnar Nordstrom as a Toj Eurorace entry , and later made it's way to the USA.
From the photo's you sent it still has it's 2.0 litre Toyota on injection , what class would it have run in the states, do you know when it came into the US.???????????

Bryan.

IANHEB · 7 Oct 2003, 07:57 (Ref:1556246)

Bryan,
Yesterdays mission was to double check the Domingo entries for 24/1/76 and 10/2/76,both sources confirmed Modus on both dates.So the tub must have been a spare ordered with the cars and delivered later, or a replacement after a racing incident.Generally,only Scheckter and Charlton had the backing for a full spares set up.
So now i must check for entanglement as you say,more than likely seen as both cars were crashed by 1978 and only 1 ever appears again in 1979.I cannot think of 2 more difficult parties to untangle,the combined sum of cars owned/driven by the Domingos and Charlton is mind boggling.
Thankyou for details on car 043.If your tub is one of the last (7/76),does this give about 7 more numbered tubs than numbered cars ?
Best
Ian

Bryan Miller · 7 Oct 2003, 09:08 (Ref:1556247)

Ian.

It is only supposition on my part that 054 is very late built. No evidence to back it up, only that Modus went soon after, and Argo was up and running by the new year under Jo Marquart. The JM1 Argo was just a continuation of the M3/4 Modus series.

In the fullness of time, we may come across a later tub. no. Who knows?

Don't fall into the trap of expecting all numbers and production sheets etc. etc. to be anything like accurate, in the rush to get cars on the grid, there could easily be room for un-numbered tubs to appear.

Certainly, what is possibly 047 that is in Australia, as ex. Phil Sharp / Steve Emson, does not have a tub. no. as the car had a good accident in N.Z. in period and the kindly folk at Air New Zealand assisted in virtually a complete new tub.

I have already looked for it on this car and none exists.

Roger .

Does your car have a tub. no. I can't remember if I asked you this years ago or not.??????????????

Bryan.

Neptune · 7 Oct 2003, 16:52 (Ref:1556248)

Bryan/ All,

No, you told me where to look on the rear bulkhead and I can find nothing anywhere on it, but it seems that both yours and my car experienced severe accidents when they were new. Seems like you sent me an AS article that showed Brett Riley writing off 040 at 1st outing and that is why you had me look for a replacement tub #. Never found any at all and there is no evidence of any major shunts on the tub.

Not sure when Gunther imported 016. He may have told me at one time. But I believe it was hillclimbed for many years on the continent and especially in Germany or Netherlands by two brothers and that is part of the meaning of the GB or BG script on the car. I haven't looked at those photos for a while but IIRC, it was gold w/ a Warsteiner logo too. When I started work on the spare tail I was able to purchase from him, I very carefully removed, more or less intact, the decals to keep.

I've often wondered about the sports cars made for TOJ. That AS article you sent me on the works showed one being built there. But, there is no mention of it(them) in Marcus' "updated" lists. Wonder what would have happened or perhapos did happen if a UK purchaser wanted to by a sports racer direct from Watton? I guess I looked half-heartedly for a chassis plate in the TOJ yesterday, but forgot that my real interest was to see if there are any mention of Modus on it, or on the suspension castings. Geof said it may be sold by this next weekend, but even at that, the new owner may leave it in his shop to be maintained an transported for him. Again, this goes back to how I'd like to see the original records too. I know that my next trip to the UK will find me wanting to spend as much time as allowed with whatever Peter would allow me to see/ copy/ record etc.

One other thing: Anyone have any front upright casting, hub etc spares? I have a pair of rears, but no spare fronts.

Roger

Neptune · 7 Oct 2003, 21:50 (Ref:1556249)

Reduced size photo of M1-006 subframe.

Note: The grey subframe si perceived to be original. The black stuff riveted in is known to be part of recent bodge to have front roll hoop.

Neptune · 8 Oct 2003, 16:03 (Ref:1556250)

2nd photo

allenbrown · 9 Oct 2003, 16:25 (Ref:1556251)

I just got this from Marcus Pye - I'm still trying to get him to join the thread. Apologies if some/most/all of this is old news.

Allen

MODUS CARS

M1 = 1974-1976 F3/Atlantic
M2 = 1975-1976 Formula Super Vee
M3 = 1975-1976 Formula Atlantic (at least one became an Atlantic)
M4 = 1975Formula 2 (some doubled-up as Atlantics)
M5 = 1975 Formula 5000 (3.4-litre V6) one-off
M6 = 1975 Formula Super Renault, two-off
M7 = 1976 Formula 2, one-off

M1-009-FA: 1975 works car (Tony Brise), with hybrid M1-FA designation.

M1-022-FA: Originally scheduled by factory as works/Tony Brise car. Chassis plate shows M1-022-FA75 - possibly driven in British GP support race at Silverstone by Jo Marquart's Swiss compatriot and long-time customer Rudi Gygax.

To David Price Racing for John Nicholson. Crashed first time out at Oulton Park, October '75. Apparently rebuilt on monocoque 054-7-76. Raced in UK '76, then taken to New Zealand at the end of the year for 1977 summer (European winter) series: 4th Bay Park; 4th Pukekohe; 4th Manfeild; DNF Teretonga; 4th Wigram. Fourth in championship, won by Keke Rosberg in Chevron B34.

Car now with Bryan Miller of Pilli Pilli, Australia. "Original gearbox," which was FT200 955. Raced in Historic events by Miller and his brother to date.

NB: Factory records also show 022 as 1976 car for Mike & Joe Domingo in South Africa - "new 16swg monocoque with ex-Gygax running gear."

M3-024-FA: Delivered 24/9/75 to Dave Charlton (South Africa). Nicholson-McLaren BDA engine NME047 and FT200 1038.
Charlton did not get on with the car - after his F1exploits, the new SA national series did not appeal either - and crashed it.This car is still in South Africa, in bits. I have the reclusive owner's name on file somewhere, and will be happy to supply it to you when I find it.

M3-025-FA: Delivered 18/12/75 to Dicksons of Perth (Scotland) for Norman Dickson. Nicholson-McLaren BDA NME046 and FT200 1039.

Sold to Gerry Kinnane (Northern Ireland) with 027, for Patsy McGarrity to race in Irish Formula Atlantic.

M3-027-FA: Delivered 18/12/75 to Dicksons of Perth (Scotland) for Richard Scott. Own second-hand engine and FT200 1043.
Sold to Gerry Kinnane (Northern Ireland), with 025, for Patsy McGarrity to race in Irish Formula Atlantic.
Sold to Mike Nugent (Ireland)
Sold to Tyrrell Arnold (Ireland)
Sold to Patrick Plunkett (Dublin, Ireland). Plunkett crashed it very heavily on The Corkscrew hillclimb, at Ballyalban, County Clare, in the 1980s. He retains the wreck, and has talked about rebuilding it, but has not progressed the project.

M3-034-FA: Sold to Switzerland for hillclimbing 1976. Apparently won Swiss championship. Three owners to end of 2000, when for sale with either Ford BDM or BMW M12 engine.

M3-041-FA: To Bentson (USA). Production started 27/3/76.

M1-047-F3: Factory records shows 1976 works/rental car. Actually bought by ex-patriate Kiwi Phil Sharpe as "development F3 chassis and pile of bits" end of 1975 (possibly ex-Brise?). Sharpe, a gifted fabricator, made all the pedals, brackets, etc. Built up at Dave Price Racing's Twickenham workshops using parts "begged, borrowed and scrounged fron F1," including heavy-duty Hewland FGA gearbox. Raced in Indylantic and ShellSport Group 8 races 1976. "Development narrow-track rear end caused snap oversteer." Taken to Sharpe's native New Zealand at end of season for summer (European winter) series: Crashed at Tauranga's Bay Park circuit. "Rebuilt tub in Auckland with Kevin Stone, using rear bulkhead and one inner skin, and engineer at Air New Zealand folded other tub skins around wooden former made by my father. Raced at Pukekohe the following weekend, then ran out of money."

Sold by Sharpe to Steve Empson (New Zealand).
Subsequently sold to Vivian King, Sydney (Australia) and prepared by Grahame Watson.

FACTORY RECORDS FINISH AFTER M1-047-F3:

M3-048-F2: 1976 (tub 048-3-76), claimed as F2/Atlantic car for Dicksons of Perth/British Caledonian Airways car. Was this a car hurriedly put together to save face with star drivers when the unique works M7 F2 proved an 'orange elephant?'

Did this go with 025 and 027 to Gerry Kinnane (Northern Ireland)?
Sold via dealer Brian McGinley (Northern Ireland), having been through at least two other owners to David Marsh (Bingley, Yorkshire). Offered for sale on his behalf by Jim and Richard Evans (Yorkshire) late-'90s.

Believed now with Martin Brockhouse (Leeds, Yorkshire).

M1-054-76: Replacement for tub 022-75, later 054-7-76. See previous cases...
NB: Ex-factory staff told me that the last car they made was the M3 which David Purley took to Macau in November 1976, as Team Harper entry (qualified 6th). Some doubt is cast on this by Macau GP book, which says it was the same car as Bob Harper's team ran there in 1975, when Purley qualified on pole. Engine blew in the race.

ADDITIONAL NOTES, for your information:

Another car is believed still to be in South Africa.

George Scott - now late, I believe - in Northern Ireland based his famous Scottclimber hillclimb car on Modus suspension and parts. Whether this was a rolling chassis or a spares cache (from Kinnane, perhaps?) I have not yet been able to ascertain.

M4-011-SH (for speed hillclimbing), the unique 1975-built F2-derived hillclimb car in which Ken MacMaster won the Pontypool round of the RAC British Hillclimb Championship in 1976, had 2-litre BDG, 2-litre Hart 420S and 2.2-litre Hart 420R engines in MacMaster's ownership, 1975-1978. It subsequently was fitted with a Formula Atlantic-specification 1600cc BDA when Jim Campbell (Scotland) owned it, and shared it with Tom MacMillan in 1981.

Sold by Campbell to Kevin Timms (Bath).
Sold by Timms to Barry Groombridge (Newton Abbot, Devon) 1987. He put it back to 2-litre Hart 420S spec for '89.

Sold by Groombridge to Brian McGinley (Northern Ireland) end 1989.
Sold by McGinley to Neil White (Belfast, NI). White later installed a 2.5-litre Hart engine.
Rolling chassis sold by White, at auction, to Steve Worrad.
NB: Although it has competed in Formula Atlantic trim, this has always been a Hillclimb and Sprint car, with small tanks, small brakes and high-downforce bodywork.

M2--012-SV: 1975 works Formula Super Vee chassis, raced by Mike Young (Woodbridge, Suffolk) in European and British Championship events, in Wallspan livery.

Sold to Alan Smith (Bolton) for FSV 1976. Sold to Rob Moores (Bolton) for FSV 1977. Sold to Dieter Carroll (Stockport) and converted to Formula Atlantic spec 1978.

David McKinney · 9 Oct 2003, 18:49 (Ref:1556252)

That'll be Phil Sharp then

Neptune · 9 Oct 2003, 21:47 (Ref:1556253)

So, Mr. Brown, what happened to all the info Marcus had in the same list on the F3 cars, SV and FR. My car was shown on this information page a couple of years ago. I also think Marcus has lost a lot of his interest in Modus and I understood just about all they had were for sale.

Since MP seems to be the only one to have seen these factory records, what, if any, is shown concerning the sports racers Modus produced. For starters, what was the model designation?

Roger

allenbrown · 9 Oct 2003, 21:58 (Ref:1556254)

Roger

I've asked Marcus to join the thread. The poor chap has four or five jobs at the moment and I know he doesn't have the time he'd like for his racing. Now the season is winding down, I hope he'll have time to drop in and share what he knows.

The list you refer to is one that has passed from hand to hand and I don't think anyone has it in electronic form except, perhaps, Marcus. I only have it as a FAX dated August 1998. My guess is that the information he emailed me today is designed as an update to his 1998 list.

Did Modus produce sports races? I didn't know that. I've looked through the FAX and can't find any mention of one built as a sports racer though there is the Motus and I notice M1-040-F3 was converted to a sports racer in the US.

Allen

Neptune · 10 Oct 2003, 16:45 (Ref:1556255)

Allen,

Yes, M1-040 was converted to a sports racer, but then converted back. I own it. It only ran 2 races and one SCCA drivers school in that configuration, but unfortunately, the DPO that did the conversion cut up the body, nose and engine cover to fit the March body to it. Last actively raced in 1987.

The tub is untouched, so I am working on either buying another body or creating a mold from an M2 about 500 miles away. I have already located and purchased an engine cover and currently have the later style nose that is part of the M1-006 package and I am repairing it so that it can be the plug for a mold to be shared with the owner of 006. The bodywork on 006 is the older 2 piece style and seems to be narrower in places. The side pods on 006 do not match mine on 040 either, so that is why I am trying to source another body.

As far as I know, the only SRs that Modus produced were sold as TOJ. The AS article written by Chris Witty in, I think, early 1975 shows a SR being built in the works. But, if you've seen the rest of Marcus' list, you'll note that there are a number of formula cars sold to Obermoser, and one would assume these to then have gone on to customers as TOJ. Did they have Modus chassis tags? Lots of other questions????

There is a TOJ 205 in a shop about 15 miles from home, but I work in the opposite direction and get home after they nornally close. I saw the car just last Monday, but didn't have my camera, so I didn't ask to see under the body. I glanced in the cockpit and didn't see a chassis tag, but maybe it was where I couldn't see it as I stood outside. I will try to get back there sometime soon w/ camera.

Roger

Neptune · 21 Oct 2003, 21:41 (Ref:1556256)

I have repro nose badges made up. High quality, not just a vinyl sticker. Exact copy of original except it is on a thin metal base, thus more durable than original.

IANHEB · 22 Oct 2003, 08:48 (Ref:1556257)

Nice one Neptune !.
Bryan,no further news on the spare/replacement tub to the Domingo's/Charlton,except an Autosport from September(?) 1975 stating that Charlton has ordered "a couple" of Modus chassis,which could mean anything.Hoping to see him next week .
Ian

Bryan Miller · 22 Oct 2003, 09:22 (Ref:1556258)

Ian and Roger.

I haven't forgotten things Modus, Allen has kept me busy with Australian matters.

As yet no-one can assist with the Toj / Modus tie-up in regard to chassis plates/numbers .

It will be interesting to hear if Dave Charlton can add anything to assist.

The other thing that intrigues me , is we have never heard a wispher in regard to the ,car that sales records say went to Bentson in the U.S.A.

Regards Bryan.

Chris Townsend · 22 Oct 2003, 10:22 (Ref:1556259)

Lynn Bentson appears at Atlantic Motorsports Park, Halifax on 8.8,76
with a Modus M3
Qualified 25th, only have top 13 finishers for this race and he's outside of them.

This seems to be the only pro-Atlantic appearance for the car. I guess it ran SCCA most of the time.

Chris

Neptune · 22 Oct 2003, 16:22 (Ref:1556260)

Chris,

Very interesting find. I had called SCCA about "Bentson", but I didn't have a first name. Still, there is no record of him being a current SCCA member. I believe Marcus' list says North America, not USA, so I wonder if he might have been Canadian, eh?

It just happens to be that I joined SCCA over the winter of '77-78, and although I haven't searched my back issues of "Sports Car" lately, I could find no mention of him in the year end results of '78 SCCA club racing.

There were also 3 FSV M2s sold directly to Zeitler in the USA and to date, I have only been able to find one of the 3.

When I did the repro nose badges, I had about 50 made, so I have supplies of these if anyone requires one.

Roger

Neptune · 22 Oct 2003, 16:36 (Ref:1556261)

Bryan,
It will probably be the 31st before I can get back to Geof's shop to look at the TOJ sports racer. I'll take my camera because I'm interested in what is cast into the mag hub carriers etc. I can't imagine Jo had them special made w/ TOJ cast in.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Jo picked up the Lotus system of part numbering while he was there. So parts of the front suspension are numbered "model#"-C-####. Since the early 60s, Lotus used the model number for the 1st 2 or 3 digits, then a A for chassis, B for body, C: front suspension, D: rear suspension, E: engine.....and you will note that the front hub carriers are M1-C-###, just as he must have learned at Cheshunt/Hethel.

Roger

Chris Townsend · 30 Oct 2003, 09:48 (Ref:1556267)

I believe we may have found the number of the Walkinshaw M3 from 1974 [the one destroyed at the British GP]

Just occasionally drivers put the chassis numbers of their cars in an entry list along with the model number, by mistake - I've got a few programmes where this happens and Dan Rear, in a wonderful batch of Atlantic material, has included the race at Mallory on 23rd June '74.
Walkinshaw describes his car as "Modus FA-003". Given that the works entry for Brise in the same programme is for "M1" I think that Tom - not having a model number for his new car - has just put down what's on the plate.

Obscure Modus drivers and Atlantic Modus's
If you though Lynn Bentson was difficult, who on earth was Abadilla [no first name] who drove a Modus in the 1976 Batu Tiga GP?

Chris

Neptune · 30 Oct 2003, 17:42 (Ref:1556268)

Another few tidbits of Modus history are located in Autosport, 4 Nov '76, coverage of the season ending F3 race at Thruxton, 31 Oct.

The Modus "team" cars were no-shows, the result of the failed company. This may have been the 1st indictor of failure.

Malcolm Kay, Steven South's mediator, qualified, but did not race the Modus M1 ex-Parsons car that had been used 1 week earlier by John Stokes @ Brands Hatch.

Many years later, 1997, when Ron and I contacted Mike Rand who owned and drove first M1-006 in 1977 and then M1-040 in 1980 SCCA national races, established an ownership trail by saying that he had bought M1-006 from Malcolm Kay in February 1977. This would seem to indicate that this ex-Parsons car was 006. We may never know who else drove it early in it's existance.

This same Thruxton race was Brett Riley's last outing in my Modus, M1-040-F3. John Fowler was also in UK Feb '77 looking for a car. He looked at M1-006 first, but then bought M1-040 the next day from Brett @ David Price's shop. Both cars came to the US then and were converted to SCCA FC with Cosworth injected BDJ motors.

I have photos of both cars from Mike and 006 remained in team colors of orange, black and white through Mike's ownership, but 040 was white with Brett, then yellow after John brought it to the US.

Roger

allenbrown · 31 Oct 2003, 16:13 (Ref:1556269)

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
I believe we may have found the number of the Walkinshaw M3 from 1974 [the one destroyed at the British GP]

Just occasionally drivers put the chassis numbers of their cars in an entry list along with the model number, by mistake - I've got a few programmes where this happens and Dan Rear, in a wonderful batch of Atlantic material, has included the race at Mallory on 23rd June '74.
Walkinshaw describes his car as "Modus FA-003". Given that the works entry for Brise in the same programme is for "M1" I think that Tom - not having a model number for his new car - has just put down what's on the plate...

Chris

Could this crashed car have been the basis of the F5000 Modus that appeared that following October? Are any of theses early numbers still unaccounted for?

Allen

Chris Townsend · 31 Oct 2003, 16:22 (Ref:1556270)

Allen

It was, apparently, a very big accident at the British GP, so I'd guess not much...

If I'm right I think the 1974 production stacks up to five, with the first two being M1s [the second the car used by Brise at Monaco and then run in Atlantic], then Walkinshaw's 003, then the Scharman M1, then the F5000 as 005

Chris

allenbrown · 31 Oct 2003, 16:43 (Ref:1556271)

Chris

Sorry if I'm asking a question that has already been answered above, but have you now established the first appearances of the six or seven or eight Modus cars to appear in 1974?

Allen